Practical towing experience with weight/tongue on Roo19

[DavidRoo19]

Hey forum. I read an old thread I couldn’t reply to. Reviving it here. I have a 2022 Roo 19. And my TV is a 2020 Grand Cherokee V8.It has the air bags stock so the suspension does adjust. Tow spec is 7200 lbs in this model. GVWR 6500.Tongue weight should be 650lbs. I have a WDH from Equalizer (rated to 10k). When I travel we load everything in the TT so it doesn’t eat on my payload. So nothing goes in the back of the Jeep. It ranges also from 2 adults and a kid to 4 adults and a kid. I live in Utah and going up and down mountains is different than a flat surface. The V8 can definitely perform and no issues there. After reading old post it concerns me because I thought I was fine with my specs. I do notice that I do get some vehicle sway (not the trailer as far as I can see) when I towed the last two times. Maybe I was loading my cargo upfront and should have put it in the back of the Roo or middle? What are your thoughts on my set up? Ps: I don’t get any sag when hooked. The TV and TT look even. Thank you

[RobbieH]

You have it backward. You want the weight up front. If you are unbalanced with too much weight in the back, you not only can get sway, but you can get sway so bad that you lose control of the situation. Sounds to me like you need more weight up front.

[Oaklevel]

The old school trailer weight distribution is 60% in front of the axle.

Your tongue weight should be in the neighborhood of 800 to 900 lbs. What is the payload capacity of the Jeep.?

Your weights are going to cause sway....... too much weight in the back of the trailer will cause sway to the point of losing control due to sway.

Without knowing more you may be exceeding the Jeeps payload capacity.?

[Bob K4TAX]

I would load up to go camping and stop by a CAT scale to get true numbers. You will be surprised at how heavy things get. Here is a good site to use once you have the real numbers, not the published ones.

Actual Weights - Travel Trailer/Bumper Pull Weights from CAT Scales - TowingPlanner

As others have stated, too much weight in the rear of the trailer and you'll have the "tail wagging the dog". I always figure tongue weight should be 12% to 15% of the trailer GVWR.

As to airbags, not sure I'm on board to using those. I know they are great for keeping the vehicle level, but what about with a dynamic load such as towing a trailer over less than a smooth surface? Oh, the roads aren't smooth.

Bob

[Rhumblefish]

Originally Posted by DavidRoo19

Hey forum. I read an old thread I couldn’t reply to. Reviving it here.

Hey, buddy. I see this is your first post - welcome! The forum is a great place to get answers to specific questions, gain all kinds of knowledge, and run smack into the opinions of a wide variety of Rockwood enthusiasts. Glad you're here! You CAN revive old posts! When you attempt to reply, there's a paragraph of THIS IS REALLY OLD, ARE YOU SURE? along with a little checkbox that says "yeah, I'm sure, go ahead and reply to this necrothread." That being said, tow setups are a super regular question, and - as you can guess - there are a variety of opinions around each.

Originally Posted by DavidRoo19

I have a 2022 Roo 19. And my TV is a 2020 Grand Cherokee V8.It has the air bags stock so the suspension does adjust. Tow spec is 7200 lbs in this model. GVWR 6500.

I've got the big brother to your 19 (a 22 '235S) and have a similar philosopy to loading (to balance my numbers and trade some tow weight to preserve payload). I also tow with an air-bag equipped SUV with plenty of power, and am being very conscious with my numbers - I'm right at the limits for payload and hitch weight, but am fine with tow rating. That being said, my tow experience is that my ride is marginal for what I'm doing (mostly in flatland), and *I'd* be much better off going to a truck (like a modern F150 with Max Tow). I did drag this thing with a 94 vintage Ram, and didn't like that experience either, so I'm looking at a different dedicated tow beast.

Originally Posted by DavidRoo19

Tongue weight should be 650lbs. I have a WDH from Equalizer (rated to 10k). When I travel we load everything in the TT so it doesn’t eat on my payload. So nothing goes in the back of the Jeep. It ranges also from 2 adults and a kid to 4 adults and a kid. I live in Utah and going up and down mountains is different than a flat surface. The V8 can definitely perform and no issues there. After reading old post it concerns me because I thought I was fine with my specs.

Your 19 should have a FACTORY FICTION unloaded vehicle weight of 4355# (plus any accessories, propane, water, and all your stuff). I find it helpful to simply use the max allowable weight for cargo and work from there. So, an UVW of 4,355 + a cargo carrying capacity of 1,447 yields a gross weight of 5,832. 10-15% of 5,832 is 583-874. Let's average that at 728 lbs (which I find is actually in line/a little above with what owners are seeing for these style trailers, fully loaded, considering they have some additional weight in the form of the bunk ends at the polar ends). Running the same calculation for my trailer yields a theoretical hitch weight of 862. I've taken some weight off the tongue and moved it further back towards the axles, and see a real world hitch weight of 800# (measured with my weigh-safe hitch).

Similarly, I'd predict a tongue weight for you of 700 lbs. Check that against the yellow payload sticker on your driver's side doorframe, and then look at what you're stuffing into the car. I see wildly varying payloads being reported for the 2020 Grand Cherokee, so you'll need to see what YOUR car is showing (they are custom per car, based on how they are outfitted. For instance, if you've got the duded out floor model with every option, all those options have eaten into your payload, and you will have a lower payload rating than a stripper model of the same car). Check that against what you're loading up with. I've seen some complaints that '20 Grand Cherokees are being hit with really LOW payloads. Take heed of this - the closer you are to your limits, the more of a handful you'll have to tow. This can be made worse by setup, speed, loading, hills and wind.

With your comparatively short wheel base SUV, your WDH will help migrate some of this weight forward and rearward, returning weight to your SUV's front axle increasing steering control and traction, and reducing driver effort and fatigue, so long as it's installed and applied properly. Your SUV's airbags, when engaged, will mask trailer sag (meaning you'll appear level, even without the WDH engaged), so let's not worry about that just yet (note, airbag use actually increases weight on the rear axle by a small degree, not that we need to concern ourselves with it, but if you're at the limit, you're at the limit).

Originally Posted by DavidRoo19

I do notice that I do get some vehicle sway (not the trailer as far as I can see) when I towed the last two times.

Your jeep has a little anti-sway baked into the ABS system, but it's not very effective at eliminating sway (especially considering the lever arm of the trailer, and the effect of - say - bow wave from semi's). Your sway is likely exacerbated by the short wheel base of your SUV, the relative weight of the trailer (esp compared to your tow vehicle), and the lightening of the front end. If you can get to a CAT scale, you can really dial in your WDH (especially if there's no way to turn off your airbags).

Originally Posted by DavidRoo19

Maybe I was loading my cargo upfront and should have put it in the back of the Roo or middle? What are your thoughts on my set up? Ps: I don’t get any sag when hooked. The TV and TT look even. Thank you

IDEALLY, to reduce sway, cargo loading for a travel trailer should be directly over the axles. This puts the weight in the place with the most support (directly over the axles) the most immediate side-to-side control (the tandem wheels), and gets it out of the ends (decreasing polar moment of inertial). However, travel trailers aren't really built like this (with all their storage right over the axles), but you can be careful if you're adding anything particularly heavy (like loading up a water tank). I like to travel with dry tanks, in order to not stress my system or have to fret about ~480 lbs of poorly suspended tankage. Weight, properly applied, might help sooth some of your trailer's road manners for smoothness, but adding weight to the TT increasing its weight in relation to the TV reduces overall stability and makes the entire rig more susceptible to sway (Heavier TV/lighter TT = better/more stable than Lighter TV/heavier TT). Don't rear load to lighten the tongue. You will impact the tongue weight, but are increasing weight further from the hitch, increasing pendulum effect and making your setup more susceptible to sway.


I like to roll out these videos (which make some excellent points)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeEE...per-autojourno

and this one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc0n...per-autojourno

Of course, this is all just my opinion. Hope it helps. I could be - and often am - wrong.

[RobbieH]

Wow, that trailer is approaching the weight of mine. Before I got this trailer I moved from 3/4 ton trucks to a 2014 half ton Ram 1500 with the 3.0 diesel. I thought I'd never be towing tall heavy trailers anymore, so jumped on for better efficiency, better ride, etc. Then, when we decided to downsize our RV I called and bought this trailer from a place about 4 hours from me. Halfway home I said "we need a bigger truck". It was awful. And just a year and a half ago we sold our 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee, so I have experience with them too. I can't imagine my trailer being towed by the GC.

[duneslider]

I had a 2010 jeep commander which is built on the GC platform and at that time I had an older model trailer that was basically the same as the Roo 19. Your 2020 isn't a solid axle rear though and I think that might be where some of your sway is coming from. Upgrading the rear sway bar will help it with some of that squirmy sway feel.

Keeping the tongue weight good helps too but our Commander pulled that camper with zero issues. It was a great setup for us at the time.

[RobbieH]

My father had a Commander for many years, in fact my SIL still drives it. You are right, it's built on the GC chassis, but something about it just feels more substantial. I don't know how they made it feel so different, I'm too lazy to look it up.

[bikendan]

Where did you get 650lbs for the tongue weight?
Dry tongue weight is 414lbs.
My Roo 23SS was much bigger and never had a tongue weight that heavy.
Your Roo should be easily pulled by your Jeep. Especially with an Equal-i-zer.

https://www.rvusa.com/rv-guide/2022-...-specs-tr54353

[DavidRoo19]

Thank you so much guys for all the responses. I will try to summarize them here. 1. My 2020 GC V8 comes with the Air Bags standard and I can't turn them off. 2. I never load my cargo in the back. I was just asking. I always load it upfront in between the table and the sofa and against the front bed. I don't load anything in the back of the TV 3. Per my dealer my payload is 1900 lbs but it seems high. I know Grand Cherokee has gone back and forth with this through out the years. I don't have the sticker because a deer hit our door and the body shop removed it. I called the dealer with my VIN but I am skeptical with the advisor that told me even though I was asking more questions as to my specific vehicle payload. 4. When I was referring to tongue weight it was my estimate of what my TV tongue weight is. I know my Equalizer WDH is already heavy so I want to keep my payload as low as possible which is why I don't carry anything in the back of the Jeep. I put everything inside the trailer. Or should I put some cargo inside my Jeep? 5. I used to own a 2014 GC V6 and no way I can see that towing the Roo in Utah.

My TT specs are Dry 4298lbs, Cargo 1416 lbs, Hitch weight 434 lbs, GVWR 5714.
I will be heading to a CAT scale next time. I am also going to buy a tongue weight scale that sets below the ball coupler to measure it before I go out.

I was more concerned too as to why I was feeling sway inside the vehicle but when I look back the trailer looks nice and straight. Maybe like someone said upgrade the rear bar. I was also contemplating upgrading next year to a 2023 Yukon Denali and that might feel more sturdy with the longer wheel base. It rates to 8100 lbs tow and it should have higher payload than my Jeep. I was also reading about all this small adjustments on the WDH itself but I don't have a wrench big enough to adjust those. When I am on a flat surface and all hooked the vehicle looks even and horizontal and the trailer does too. No swag.

Thank you. This was my first post and I see a lot of people responding which is great!

[Chuck_S]

Your tongue weight should be in the neighborhood of 800 to 900 lbs

Roo 19 has a GVWR of about 5600 pounds (where did 6500 pounds come from ?) * making safe tongue weight somewhere between 560 and 840 pounds (not 800 - 900) and typically in the lower end of the range depending on how it tows. Weight should absolutely be kept out of the rear of a travel trailer to avoid the pendulum effect and and short wheel base. (Motorboat trailers have massive wheelbases compared to travel trailers.)

* My Roo 23SS -- super slide -- has a GVWR of 6500 pounds. Did the Roo 19 gain some weight over the past few years? The Jeep has a GVWR of 6500 pounds from the specs I see.

-- Chuck

[DavidRoo19]

Originally Posted by Chuck_S

Roo 19 has a GVWR of about 5600 pounds (where did 6500 pounds come from ?) * making safe tongue weight somewhere between 560 and 840 pounds (not 800 - 900) and typically in the lower end of the range depending on how it tows. Weight should absolutely be kept out of the rear of a travel trailer to avoid the pendulum effect and and short wheel base. (Motorboat trailers have massive wheelbases compared to travel trailers.)

* My Roo 23SS -- super slide -- has a GVWR of 6500 pounds. Did the Roo 19 gain some weight over the past few years? The Jeep has a GVWR of 6500 pounds from the specs I see.

-- Chuck

My Jeep Grand Cherokee is GVWR of 6500 lbs. I am not sure if he got confused there. My Roo specs are Dry 4298lbs, Cargo 1416 lbs, Hitch weight 434 lbs, GVWR 5714. So tongue weight is my understanding to be between 571 - 857. So maybe keep it in the 715 range when I test it

[Chuck_S]

There's no magic number it's determined largely by trial and error. Got a tongue scale? You're guessing without one. You can make one with your wife's bathroom scale see: https://hildstrom.com/projects/2011/...ale/index.html

For starters just use 10% of your GVWR: 4298 + 1416 = 5714 x 0.10 = 572. That's your minimum assuming you're loaded to the ceiling which you probably aren't but it's still within the 10%-15% range. If it tows fine leave it alone unless your weight changes drastically.

-- Chuck

[DavidRoo19]

Hey. I wanted to give a quick correction in case someone comes back to this post. I called another Jeep dealer and this time I did get the correct payload of my vehicle. Its 1280 lbs. The first dealer gave me way wrong information and its unfortunate they do that without remorse.

I did some calculations and for sure I CAN"T travel with 4 adults + kid. Just 2 + kids. It could be I was getting sway due to the past 2 trips and traveling too heavy. Now I am better informed.

[Rhumblefish]

Originally Posted by DavidRoo19

Hey. I wanted to give a quick correction in case someone comes back to this post. I called another Jeep dealer and this time I did get the correct payload of my vehicle. Its 1280 lbs. The first dealer gave me way wrong information and its unfortunate they do that without remorse.

I did some calculations and for sure I CAN"T travel with 4 adults + kid. Just 2 + kids. It could be I was getting sway due to the past 2 trips and traveling too heavy. Now I am better informed.

Glad to help out! Yeah, the 1280 sounds a little more accurate for your '20 Grand Cherokee V8 (I was thinking 1,244 was close - and this would be for a pretty loaded/highly optioned SUV, which yours might be, plus that heav(ier) engine). Check - you might want to make sure your Jeep has the HD cooling, give you some more capacity. You can check your owner's manual, the Towing section starts on page 258. It's not a great/detailed/deep dive on towing, but gives some things to keep in mind, as well as details on YOUR specific Jeep (like when to engage tow mode on the transmission, as well as the automatic brakes and lanekeeping, etc, if so equipped).

Likely overloading your payload (while not good) isn't the cause of your sway, I'd suggest that you are a little nose light (thanks to heave(ier) tongue weight) + the short(ish) wheelbase of your SUV makes for a not great tow (wanders a little more, less responsive to steering inputs, more susceptible to sway, crosswinds and bow wake from semis).

With your airbags, you really need to get some weights to tune your WDH (because you can't use height to measure weight returned). I suggest that will level out the truck WEIGHT wise, and give you a more stable platform to tow with. You'd be a LOT better off with more tow vehicle (like, night and day difference btw towing with your Jeep and towing with an F150), but that's not always in the cards.

Tune the WDH to get your weights proper, shift everything to your trailer (load close to the axle, not behind), check your tongue weight, travel with dry tanks and see if that doesn't make for a better tow.

Just my .02. Hope this helps.

[DavidRoo19]

Originally Posted by Rhumblefish

Glad to help out! Yeah, the 1280 sounds a little more accurate for your '20 Grand Cherokee V8 (I was thinking 1,244 was close - and this would be for a pretty loaded/highly optioned SUV, which yours might be, plus that heav(ier) engine). Check - you might want to make sure your Jeep has the HD cooling, give you some more capacity. You can check your owner's manual, the Towing section starts on page 258. It's not a great/detailed/deep dive on towing, but gives some things to keep in mind, as well as details on YOUR specific Jeep (like when to engage tow mode on the transmission, as well as the automatic brakes and lanekeeping, etc, if so equipped).

Likely overloading your payload (while not good) isn't the cause of your sway, I'd suggest that you are a little nose light (thanks to heave(ier) tongue weight) + the short(ish) wheelbase of your SUV makes for a not great tow (wanders a little more, less responsive to steering inputs, more susceptible to sway, crosswinds and bow wake from semis).

With your airbags, you really need to get some weights to tune your WDH (because you can't use height to measure weight returned). I suggest that will level out the truck WEIGHT wise, and give you a more stable platform to tow with. You'd be a LOT better off with more tow vehicle (like, night and day difference btw towing with your Jeep and towing with an F150), but that's not always in the cards.

Tune the WDH to get your weights proper, shift everything to your trailer (load close to the axle, not behind), check your tongue weight, travel with dry tanks and see if that doesn't make for a better tow.

Just my .02. Hope this helps.

It does. Thank you. Getting a truck is not too practical for me but is a maybe. I was thinking a 6.2L V8 Yukon Denali instead. Is that getting a truck just for camping and the times I can use it during the year may not be worth it and with the bigger SUV I can have more seating if needed.
My Jeep does have the tow option. It’s the High Altitude. Comes with HD cooling and stock hitch receiver. This model doesn’t have a tow mode. They got rid of that and the vehicle does it on its own once plugged in. And I of course have a Brake Controller for the trailer brakes.
If I do end up with a truck for daily then I do like the Ford F150 but also the GMC Sierra AT4 or something like that.

[duneslider]

I really think that you need some adjustments to the WDH to get the distribution right. You would have to hit the cat scales to see what all the numbers were to verify but I am betting a little more tension on the bars is needed. You also don't mention which WDH you have and if it has any sway control built in.

[DavidRoo19]

Originally Posted by duneslider

I really think that you need some adjustments to the WDH to get the distribution right. You would have to hit the cat scales to see what all the numbers were to verify but I am betting a little more tension on the bars is needed. You also don't mention which WDH you have and if it has any sway control built in.

Thanks. I have an Equalizer 10,000 lbs rated one. It does have sway control.

[RobbieH]

Originally Posted by DavidRoo19

Thanks. I have an Equalizer 10,000 lbs rated one. It does have sway control.

This is another case of where buying the biggest thing out there is not the right decision. You need to buy your WDH based on the actual weight of the trailer and the tongue weight. A 10,000 lb WDH is not the right WDH for your trailer. Did the dealership tell you that was the right one?

I'm starting to think you are unloading the rear axle.

[DavidRoo19]

Originally Posted by RobbieH

This is another case of where buying the biggest thing out there is not the right decision. You need to buy your WDH based on the actual weight of the trailer and the tongue weight. A 10,000 lb WDH is not the right WDH for your trailer. Did the dealership tell you that was the right one?

I'm starting to think you are unloading the rear axle.

Yes it was the dealer. I came from having a Rockwood Pop Up and didn't need one so the WDH was new for me to know any better.
However the option below the one I have is the 6000 lbs one. That would be cutting it close since max out is around 5600 for my Roo. And if I ever upgrade to a bigger trailer then I need another WDH. That is my thought after I started researching this more.

I am staying within my Payload including the weight of the WDH. I will for sure CAT scale it soon with full water tanks and see where I sit with my vehicle only and the Hitch and then with the trailer hooked up.