5th Wheel or Travel trailer for 2nd purchase

[NMWildcat]

Originally Posted by Jim34RL

Being a retired structural engineer in my humble opinion the only people who care about payload are the internet weight police! They read somewhere on the internet about payload and if it is on the internet than it must be gospel. This is not a requirement of DOT scale houses for commercial towing of any pick-up truck when used in this application.

What anyone needs to concerned themselves with when towing a trailer is the GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating) of the truck and trailer, the RAWR (Rear Axle Weight Rating) and the tire load rating for a given PSI. As long as these numbers are not exceeded, when you are fully loaded with the occupants and trailer you are good to go.

Everyone loads their trucks and trailer differently so, only you know what you are towing. As long as you scale the load at a certified scale you will know the actual towing weights.

For example; I do not carry any fluids in my holding tanks. I do not want the unnecessary weight which effects my fuel mileage. As this is approximately 2,200+ kg (1,000 LBS) when all of the tanks are full. I also do not carry everything under the sun when we travel since we are not full-timers. This all adds up to extra mass (weight) that requires more HP and TQ to get the load moving.

X2. CCC (payload) numbers are compromise between engineers, lawyers, and marketing. It is the last suggested/guideline number I worry about. I've been hauling my rig around for 10 years and while I am under every other weight concerned specification, I am always over payload, sometimes WAY over. My truck never goes past level and I don't use airbags. Go figure......
If you are overthinking/stressing payload numbers, come to the farm for a day and we will quickly eliminate your fear of that number

[Jim34RL]

Originally Posted by NMWildcat

X2. CCC (payload) numbers are compromise between engineers, lawyers, and marketing. It is the last suggested/guideline number I worry about. I've been hauling my rig around for 10 years and while I am under every other weight concerned specification, I am always over payload, sometimes WAY over. My truck never goes past level and I don't use airbags. Go figure......
If you are overthinking/stressing payload numbers, come to the farm for a day and we will quickly eliminate your fear of that number

I am not over thinking my numbers or am I stress about payload! I do not care at all about payload numbers. I just do not want to carry unnecessary mass since we do not boon dock at all. My DW want's her long hot showers and all the comforts of home so, we stay at RV parks that have full-hook ups.

My typical RV site is a level pull-thru with either a cement or black top pad very rare are the sites gravel. Being a minimum of 60' length with a 50AMP, cable, sewer and water hook-ups.

[Tundra 2014]

If you want a larger TT and would consider used, look at the 30' Wind jammer Forrest River or Flagstaff trailer. They are V-front trailers and give you a lot of space for the length of the trailer. Total length is 34' and IMO they tow better than most flat front trailers. Look on RVT site for a review of ones for sale. We have towed our 27.5 model for 3 years and 15K miles w/o any problems.We have been pleased w/ the build quality and features foe a lighter trailer-7.5K.
I priced out cars thru Costco Buyer Service. They also do RVs, but at the current time and shortage of units available I do not think you will see much benefit. They are also limited on dealers that will deal w/ them. We were offered a better price on the car we wanted, than I had been able to find elsewhere.

[NMWildcat]

Originally Posted by Jim34RL

I am not over thinking my numbers or am I stress about payload! I do not care at all about payload numbers. I just do not want to carry unnecessary mass since we do not boon dock at all. My DW want's her long hot showers and all the comforts of home so, we stay at RV parks that have full-hook ups.

My typical RV site is a level pull-thru with either a cement or black top pad very rare are the sites gravel. Being a minimum of 60' length with a 50AMP, cable, sewer and water hook-ups.

Actually i was agreeing with you completely. The overthinking statement was for others in this thread but I didn't make that clear. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[whjco]

Two years ago we bought a Cherokee 274vfk and absolutely love it! It's almost 34' long with a v-nose and has a really great kitchen built into the v-nose. That leaves the center section wide open and with a super slide, it's a really large open living area. Also has a nice bathroom and bedroom. The best part is that it's a large trailer with a 30A hookup and the 15,000 btu ducted AC works great and we've had it in hot humid Georgia summer weather. I pull it with a Ram 2500 CTD and am extremely happy with the setup.

[Puppysox]

We owned a Cougar VFK 33 feet 11 inche TT. Had it for 5 years, it was a wonderful rv. My Husband said it was easy to pull, no trouble finding sites to camp at. We traded it last year for a Coachman Chaparral 284 rls. Its a 34 ft Fifth Wheel. My husband says it pulls like a dream, no comparison. We love both, we're happy with both, enjoyed both. We pull with a 2013 GMC serria HD 2500. No problems pulling either. If your not sure, I think I would rent a TT the longer length and try pulling, then rent a Fifth Wheel and compare. If it's not in the budget now, try looking for a used one. I'm sure the market will be flooded soon. Don't know if this helped or not. Good luck

[cadman99]

Several things - i would never buy a new 5th wheel. If it is about 2/3 years old all the problems have been dealt with, plus it will cost you about 50% less. I currently tow with a 2009 Duramax HD and a Forest River Ultra Lite 29ft 5th. Pin weight about 1100lbs. The truck bed drops less than an 1" when hitched. If you are worried about pin weight look for a rear kitchen. The last 5er I had was a rear kitchen and about 250lbs less pin weight.

I think a 5er is much easier to tow (virtually no sway). Much easier to hitch and unhitch. My truck is a short bed with the pin over the rear axle. I have a sliding hitch but rarely use it - it is easier to position the trailer when backing into tight spaces with the hitch in the rear position. I also have a Reese Revolution but never use it (it's a pain in the ass).

Check for 5ers that are the " ultra lite" versions and a maximum of 30ft. They will be well under 10,000 loaded and less than 1500lbs pin wright.

[skipatroller]

Originally Posted by ethansdad

We bought our first camper 4 years ago. Wildwood 26tbss travel trailer. Didn't want to spend a wad of cash just in case our boys didn't get into camping. Well, we do love it and my wife, who is not known for being an outside person, says lets upgrade. When we normally pack up, the truck bed is full of bikes, coolers, air compressor, big green egg, and fishing gear for the kids.

So now looking for something a little nicer and bigger and the ones that we like are 5th wheel. I have 2019 2500 hd duramax diesel so a 5th wheel can be done but im looking at 2 things. 1. cost of converting to 5th wheel and 2. Where do I put all the stuff that is normally in the bed of the truck!

What would you do? Thanks for any advice.

First of all what is the length of your truck bed, if you have a crew cab with a 6' bed you will need to find either a newer 5th wheel with the front cab corners with a radius for making sharp turns or you are going to need to have what they call a slider hitch, this allows the center pin to move when making tight turns. Depending on your negotiating skills I was able to bet mine thrown into the purchase deal, if not you are looking at another cost of, 12 to 1500 dollars.
Get a trailer with a rear bumper for the add on bike rack for the bikes. I'm able to still put things in the bed of my truck but make sure nothing is above the bed rail or in the way of the hitch when making turns.

As others mentioned and from what you described you take with you, a toy hauler give you a convertible garage area, use it to store things while transporting sleeping quarters when camping.

[skipatroller]

Originally Posted by chriscowles

I do not own and have never pulled a fifth wheel, but does that arrangement not interfere with acute turns when backing?

The simple answer to your question is no, a matter of fact it gives you a greater turning radius, The trick to this answer is a slider type hitch, these allow the center pin location to slide backward taking the front of the unit away from the cab. If you happen to have a truck with an 8' bed you can go with a stationary fifth wheel hitch.

If you plan on towing for any distance there is no comparison to a bumper pull, they tow so smoothly with absolutely no back end fishtailing.

[cekkk]

To your question about losing the use of the truck bed, I purchased an F-350 Dually with the intention of getting a fifth wheel. Using it on the ranch for hay hauling and horse trailering before I bought the trailer gave me some trailer towing experience, although none of those things were 11 or 12 feet high. But along the way I fell into a Lance cap, large one, for six hundred bucks when they were going for 1500. Big mistake, because once I got used to having that protected bed I just couldn't give it up and ended up with a 36' travel trailer. Enjoyed it for roughly 10 years. It pulled very nicely because I was careful in setting it up. But if I had it to do over again, I would go 5th wheel.

[skipatroller]

Originally Posted by NMWildcat

A cougar 34tsb is 37.5' long. That is a ridiculous length for a bumper pull RV. Dry weight is 8600 and GVWR is 10600. Hitch weight will be around 1200 to 1600. It is advertised as 1/2 ton towable. Ahhh.... NO.
While your 3/4 ton can easily handle it, you would definitely be better off with a fifth wheel. After looking at actual prices on the new comparable models, it can't be much different.
Have you considered lightly used models?
I have never known anyone personally who RVs regularly and kept a bumper pull of that length very long. After a few trips it either sits in storage or is traded for a fifth wheel. Just my experience and personal knowledge. I'm sure there are folks out there who say it's the best towing/RV experience there is. But I'm willing to wager they have never pulled both a TT and a fiver of that length. There is no comparison.
If cost is your major deciding factor, you have lots of cboices in the fifth wheel area if you really look.

I'm with you, 37.5 is a long a__ trailer to tow on your bumper, unless you find pull thru sites it will be difficult to get into campsite.

[LittleBill]

Don't let DW get stuck on no 5th wheel based on price only before even talking to a dealer as you may be surprise at the price they will let it go for. Yea they may be a couple of pennies more, but you get more. Like others have said you get a ton of more storage on a 5th wheel than you will with a bumper pull.

Good luck and be safe.

[Mandog]

I was in the same quandary as you. I wanted a 5th wheel but dang at $12,000 to $18,000 more than a larger TT we said nope. My 5th wheel trailers all
Pull great but I have no problem with my TT and she’s a long one. 39’ bumper to ball. 2020 32Bh Forest River Vibe. I go below the speed limit and have my WDH set up perfectly. I pull with a 2005 2500HD 6.0 4x4 extended cab Silverado. I’ve added new Ranchero 9000 XL shocks, Cooper AT3 XLT 10 ply tires and a huge tranny cooler. I’ve never weighed it but she pulls great and the inside is exactly what we wanted. We frequent VA state parks and other campgrounds and have had no issues. My wife brags about my driving skills but it helps having driven big long trucks all My life. Good luck!

[jvg]

Went to 5th year ago. Wish did it sooner. Cost $1000 for good 20000lb hitch. Go heavier u might b upgrading again. I have 8ft bed. Still have room for generator and 12 panel dog fencing in bed and stuff next to hitch. Just can't go over trailer hitch pin. Also, larger storage in 5th. Take a look at unit hitched and you’ll get better idea of what it looks like.

[Brewhedd]

Originally Posted by NMWildcat

A cougar 34tsb is 37.5' long. That is a ridiculous length for a bumper pull RV. Dry weight is 8600 and GVWR is 10600. Hitch weight will be around 1200 to 1600.

We purchased a 37' TT with a dry weight of almost 10,000 lbs. Never had a problem pulling it but had a Chevy 3500 DRW Duramax, also used an Equalizer hitch. I wouldn't call it ridiculous but it was long. I think it could be pulled with a SRW truck with a sway control hitch. I'm sure a 5th wheel is more stable but needed a level interior due to wife's health. Anyway, it is doable without too much stress. You can't have too much truck.

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by cadman99

Several things - i would never buy a new 5th wheel. If it is about 2/3 years old all the problems have been dealt with, plus it will cost you about 50% less.

I’ve seen a ton of 2/3 year old rigs that have just started having problems. Seals weren’t maintained and roof/side damage has begun but isn’t yet readily visible, no screens on appliance vents so they’re chock full of dirt dauber nests, depleted anode rods in water heaters, hack repair jobs that have been hidden and so on. You really need to know what you’re looking at or you can easily be taken advantage of when it comes to used rigs. And, in my experience, you typically lose more like 15-20%, not 50%, unless you seriously overpaid on the new. This is of course assuming you take care of your rig.

[badaxemi]

Originally Posted by ethansdad

We bought our first camper 4 years ago. Wildwood 26tbss travel trailer. Didn't want to spend a wad of cash just in case our boys didn't get into camping. Well, we do love it and my wife, who is not known for being an outside person, says lets upgrade. When we normally pack up, the truck bed is full of bikes, coolers, air compressor, big green egg, and fishing gear for the kids.

So now looking for something a little nicer and bigger and the ones that we like are 5th wheel. I have 2019 2500 hd duramax diesel so a 5th wheel can be done but im looking at 2 things. 1. cost of converting to 5th wheel and 2. Where do I put all the stuff that is normally in the bed of the truck!

What would you do? Thanks for any advice.

We had almost they exactly the same issues. When we decided to go to a 5th wheel the same issues of storage of bikes and things were our thoughts also. We bought a 381TH from camping world and had them install the hitch in or truck for free and the cost of the hitch was around $2000 if I remember correctly. We had them just add that into the loan so we had no out of pocket expenses. The 381TH gave us the room we needed with out loosing the living space we required. We have a Harley Davidson that we sometimes take with us but we still have enough room in back and underneath in the storage areas for anything else we need! I hope this helps, There are other companies that make similar models with somewhat the same layout.

[CraigJean]

We went through the same process of questions regarding a fiver and where to put everything? I have an 8' bed so I installed a large tool box that was flush with the bed rails. When we travel, I can put two sets of golf clubs, our inflatable kayak and all accessories inside the tool box. I can mount two bicycles on top of the tool box secured to my cab bar. I carry a spare propane tank and portable barbecue and a generator in the back of the truck tucked in and out of the way of the fifth wheel hitch.

C&J

[BM Welder]

Last year we were in Yuma and there was a pickup that had a special made over the cab rack that he carried a 4 wheeler on.

[JimParker256]

We had a 24-foot TT for a while. It was nice, but we really needed more space to be able to get comfortable for longer stays. Not full-timers, but we do go for 2-3 weeks at a time, and having only a dinette to sit in got really uncomfortable.

During one of our stays, the couple next door gave us a tour of their 5er... Within 5 minutes, we were sold on the concept. The lower storage areas more than make up for losing part of the truck bed for storage. The huge bay up front holds more than our standard-length truck bed, and that's only the first of several storage areas.

Then we went looking for a 5er. Some of the new ones were nice, but those "new" prices were well outside of our comfort zone... So we started looking on RVTrader.com with a very specific list of "wants". It had to be under 35' long (which is exactly the same "combined truck + trailer" overall length as our previous bumper-tow travel trailer and pickup truck, by the way). I didn't want something that pre-dated flat-screen TVs, because the CRT type take up way too much room.

We quickly found one particular model (Wildcat 313RE) that had everything we wanted, and nothing "extra" that we didn't want. The first three we called about had already been sold. So when we found one about 80 miles away, we called the guy, and asked a few questions about the condition. We asked the guy if he would hold it for us, promising that if it was "as described" we would buy it that day. He agreed, and (thank goodness) honored that agreement, even though there was another couple there looking at "our" 5er... The unit was exactly as described – everything worked – so we bought it. The consigner even agreed to keep it on his lot until our hitch was installed and we could come back to get it.

When we finally picked it up, I was at first intimidated by the behemoth "thing" we would be towing. It just looked SO much BIGGER than our little 24-foot TT... But as soon as we got underway, I realized that the other couple had been right – towing a 5er is MUCH easier than towing a bumper tow. Much more stable, and I was far less "conscious" of that trailer behind me than with the bumper tow. It tracks beautifully, turns corners every bit as easily (same combined overall length, after all), and is FAR more stable on the freeway with 18-wheelers passing, etc. We've been into the mountains with it, and I much prefer it over the bumper pull in the hills. I've driven it in rush-hour traffic, surrounded by lane-changing autos and big trucks, and felt very confident with it.

As for storage: With the 24-ft bumper tow, we were loaded to max cargo weight in the trailer, filled the truck bed, and still had some stuff in the back seat of the truck. With the 5er, the truck bed is 3/4 empty, the truck has only our snacks for the trip, and we've got maybe 50% of the storage in the 5th wheel in use.

We absolutely love it, and would never go back to a bumper pull trailer. For a while, we considered moving to a comparably sized Class A motorhome, but we really like being able to disconnect the truck at a camp site and use it to drive around the local area. It's FAR easier than dealing with towing a car behind a motorhome. The 5er is so easy to hitch up and go.

One last thing: Our truck is a standard bed, so we bought a Demco HiJacker autoslide hitch that automatically slides to the rear when you turn, so there's no issues with the 5er hitting the truck cab, even with >90º turns. And it's nice that we don't have to stop, get out, release the slider, then get back in the truck every time we want to back it up or maneuver. One less thing to "forget" when you're maneuvering at the campsite...