First Timer from Michigan--Semper Fi

[USMCbh1983]

Originally Posted by A32Deuce

Sad, but sometimes that happens. Very hard sometimes getting what you need/want to work together.

So, if I’m going to get a different truck, how can I make sure I don’t buy another car disguised as a truck?

[A32Deuce]

There should be a sticker on the drivers side that gives your f &r weights with vehicle gross and combined vehicle gross weights.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by USMCbh1983

So, if I’m going to get a different truck, how can I make sure I don’t buy another car disguised as a truck?

Now that you know what size trailer you want, start by using 13%-15% of the trailer's GVWR for the estimated loaded tongue weight. Then shop for a truck that has more than enough payload capacity to handle that estimated loaded tongue weight. Looking at payload capacity stickers is the easiest way to determine that, since taking it to a CAT scale would be difficult, because you don't own it.
Educate yourself on what specs and options are important for towing, like the F150 Max Tow package or the Heavy Duty Payload package.
Stay away from the fancy bling trim levels, like the Ford Platinum, Lariat or King Ranch. All that fancy stuff lowers payload capacities. Lower trim levels, like the XLT, will usually have better payload capacities.
For that trailer, a 3/4 ton truck would be the minimum, especially because of how long that TT is.

[bikendan]

That's what many half ton trucks have become, grocery getters.

Originally Posted by USMCbh1983

It was from the online manual———-and that’s unfortunate.


So, basically I have a overpriced car that can’t tow anything?

I learned a lot from RV forums and found the trailer we wanted first, THEN bought a truck that could easily tow it.
Many buy a truck with no idea that they may want to tow a TT or 5th wheel someday. Then they decide to, only to find their current truck is sadly lacking.

[MacDR]

Welcome from southeast Wisconsin, Thank you for your service, enjoy this forum.. There is an answer for about everything.

[USMCbh1983]

So, help me understand why the 9600 lbs figure is NOT the max weight I can tow. I’m struggling with that part.

Thank you in advance!

[USMCbh1983]

I’ll try again.

[USMCbh1983]

Maybe this one you can read.

[bikendan]

Because nearly every truck, especially 1/2 tons, will run out of payload WAY before getting close to the max towing capacity.
You have to give up on the 9600 number because your payload is too low to ever get near it.
Payload First, then look at max tow capacity. Too many newbies only focus on towing capacity. It's a marketing gimmick.
And that 9600 number is only with a 150lb driver and full fuel tank. Anything or anyone in the truck, lowers the 9600 number by its weight.
Have you read the Towing section of the owner's manual?

[USMCbh1983]

Originally Posted by bikendan

Because nearly every truck, especially 1/2 tons, will run out of payload WAY before getting close to the max towing capacity.
You have to give up on the 9600 number because your payload is too low to ever get near it.
Payload First, then look at max tow capacity. Too many newbies only focus on towing capacity. It's a marketing gimmick.
And that 9600 number is only with a 150lb driver and full fuel tank. Anything or anyone in the truck, lowers the 9600 number by its weight.

Roger that. And I’m not disagreeing or trying to make my truck tow more than it can—I’m just trying to understand.

So, I get that the truck payload is limited. How does that interplay with the GCVWR which says it’s 15,500?

[A32Deuce]

That is the gross weight of the truck combined with the gross weight of what ever you are towing. That could be a boat, flat bed trailer, dump trailer, utitility trailer, tt, etc.

[updhaul]

The numbers like that are just meant to confuse you as it is meaningful only as it rates the combined weight of the trailer/ load and loaded vehicle in motion and not relevant. Even the safe ratings can be exaggerated depending on plans on towing in mountains or I75 or on Big Mac.or just to Mom's. Your planned on TT sounds too heavy for your vehicle. There are alternative lighter trailers and you can have fun of shopping. Or get a bigger truck and make sure it is a heavier duty one with trailer capacity, usually a f-250 or 2500. Towing a TT when you are at or close to capacity can be miserable when the tail wags the dog on I75.

Good luck choosing, you can always ask for test drive to see if choice is right for you

[A2pfunk]

Originally Posted by USMCbh1983

So, help me understand why the 9600 lbs figure is NOT the max weight I can tow. I’m struggling with that part.

Thank you in advance!

I believe what the others are trying to say is that the max tow weight of 9600 lbs you mention is the maximum your truck could DRAG behind it on wheels.

However your truck is also limited as to how much payload it can handle. The payload (as stated above) includes the people, any STUFF, aftermarket accessories (caps, bedliners, tonneau covers, maps, snacks, etc), as well as the weight of your WDH and the TONGUE WEIGHT of the trailer you are pulling. Because of the way most trailers are weighted and balanced, it is unlikely that you will ever find a trailer close to 9600 lbs that has a tongue weight which allows you to still put people and stuff in the truck. Let's say your 9000 lb trailer is light on the front end and has a hitch weight of only 900 lbs (10%)... this only leaves you a couple hundred pounds for you, the girlfriend, the kids and all the stuff you plan to load in the truck. So how COULD you pull 9600 lbs? Think of something like a farmer's hay trailer that has wheels at the front and back of the trailer. You could put a LOT of weight on that trailer and it would not increase the weight on the hitch because it has front wheels taking all of that weight.

I didn't put a lot of faith in this stuff until I heard the story of a family we are friends with. They towed a trailer which sounds like it fits under their F150's limits, but was likely way over payload numbers. They got halfway through a cross country trip and totaled the transmission. They had to rent a minivan and totally rearrange their two week trip. Not fun.

[dbledan]

Originally Posted by USMCbh1983

Roger that. And I’m not disagreeing or trying to make my truck tow more than it can—I’m just trying to understand.

So, I get that the truck payload is limited. How does that interplay with the GCVWR which says it’s 15,500?

Sorry long post but hopefully it helps you.

Payload is figured by the truck manufacturer using the truck GVWR minus the curb weight when it leaves the factory and is on the sticker for your truck.

GCVRW is what the combined Truck and what the trailer you pull weigh.

If you go to a scale it will provide a steer axle (front), drive axle (rear), and trailer axle. It will also provide a Gross Vehicle Weight (drive + steer), and a Gross Vehicle Combined Weight (steer+drive+trailer)

Understand that putting the tongue weight on the truck adds to the gross weight of the truck just like you loaded it in the bed. It counts towards GVWR.

If you have ever seen a hay wagon with a front axle the only weight on the truck is a steel pin. All the trailer weight is on trailer axles. You could pull the 9k tow rating of that all day long safely according to the manufacturer. Go one step further...remove the front axle, and streamline weights, perfectly balance it and fit it into a low profile...this is what is tested and published for tow ratings, not travel trailers.

You can calculate roughly using payload before you buy but you should go by scaled numbers as they are real world.

To figure what you can buy read the payload sticker (like you did). Now subtract the weight of you, your passengers, all the modifications you have made that weigh more (you can add anything you took off from the factory)(tires bed liner, bed cover, tires, wheels etc) gear you want to load (wood generator iPads, luggage, grill, your hitch and bars). What's left is what your tongue of your trailer can weigh.
Payload-people-mods-gear-hitch=available tongue weight.
In your case 1150-450ish-gear-100 wdh=600 (assumes you put no gear in the truck)

Now don't go and figure trailer tongue based on a dry tongue weight in a brochure because that means you didnt put a battery on the trailer (required for brakes by law) or any gear. Best is to assume 12.5 to 15% of the trailer gross weight (fully loaded).

Trailer gross weight rating×.15=estimated tongue weight.
Say 6000lb trailer × .15 will come to 900lbs.

Now plug that in you have not loaded ANY gear in the truck.
1150-450-gear-100 wdh-900 tongue = -300 with no gear or mods.
Take the more moderate approach at 12.5% and its 750 tongue

You are 150-300lbs over payload with a 6000lb trailer.

Once you purchase then you weigh to see how things match up. These are real world numbers and are the ones that actually matter.

At least your learned before you bought. I found out later and spent a LOT of money to get there.

You can go the other way. If you have a trailer you want figure tongue weight like above.
Tongue weight+people+gear+mods+WDH= what your payload sticker needs to read.

Good luck!

Wow took me that long to type that. Sorry for same analogy.

[tomkatb]

In the past truck literature said your truck could tow up to 12,000 and a payload of up to #4,000. Getting a document with more information was very hard.

That was for a basic truck!

Translation. Not one option. That included the spare tire, tailgate, bed, one bench seat. No quad cab. No power steering, no ac, No driver or fuel, nada.

Deceptive marketing. Big three company!

Now there is a SAE spec for towing only. A low profile four wheel trailer that looks like a Ferrari is towed. Then the acceleration and stopping meets some criteria! Solved the problem. Nope. There is no mention of payload. Sway is not included. Trailers over 30’ can really wander around if everything is not correct. You need a fancy hitch at more than #100. Lowers payload.

Payload reflects, brakes, bearings, Shocks, springs, transmissions, tires, etc.

You bought the lowest payload truck vehicle Ford made.

You have a half ton payload. Until you get behind the wheel with a tank of gas and a coke. If you exceed that by much something will break prematurely. Or worse.

For fun visit the Ram site. Their towing guide helps. You can see how heavier optioned trucks have lower payloads. Their literature is the best.

[USMCbh1983]

With the help of you all and some youtube videos, I think I finally get why the TT is too big. The hay wagon analogy was great and makes total sense.

So, now that I understand more about tongue weight, is there anything I can do to reduce the tongue weight on on the payload on the truck? I mentioned to the dealer that I think my eyes were bigger than my truck. He and I were talking, and of course, he says that TT is well within my range to tow. He said payload has nothing to do with what you can pull. Blah blah.

He did mention something I wanted to ask, though. He said if I get a good weight distribution hitch, that will take 20-30% of the tongue weight and displace it across the front and rear axles of my truck. But if I understand you all correctly, whether that happens or not, it's still going to be 900 lbs of tongue weight being counted against my payload. The weight distribution hitch, it would seem, would only be helpful if the rear axle weight limit was reached or about to be. Do I understand this correctly?

[A32Deuce]

That last part you said is correct. 900lbs is 900lbs. Does not matter if front or back is still cargo/capacity. That is why dealers get people in trouble since they don't understand that principal!

[NJKris]

Hey Marine, my dealer sold me a camper that he said could be towed by a midsized SUV! Which is what I was in market for, so I bought the trailer. Later while doing my own research to buy a WDH, I learned that even though the factory spec dry tongue weight was under 500 lbs (mid sized SUV's have a 500 lb tongue weight limit on average, regardless if you have a WDH), once I was loaded for a trip, would pretty definitely be at LEAST 600 on the tongue, more likely more! My WDH alone is about 100 lbs. Ended up scrapping plans to buy a midsized SUV and got the F150. But my trailer is much lighter than yours.

[bikendan]

Bottom line is that:
If you want that trailer, you need a bigger tow vehicle.
If you don't want a bigger tow vehicle, you need to get a much smaller trailer.
There's nothing you can do, to make that trailer towable by your current truck.

[bikendan]

if you want to look at your owners manual, most of the stuff we've posted about, is the manual's Load Carrying/Towing section. There's 34 pages of great and thorough information there. Pages 252-286.

https://cdn.dealereprocess.net/cdn/s.../2013-f150.pdf

I posted the Canadian manual, since you have a XTR, like i do.