Newer than newbie! (I think we're getting a trailer!)

[Scrapper]

sudz, if you rent a identical trailer and load T/V and trailer the same as you were saying, you should then go to a CAT scale and weight the entire setup. You may find that you will be overloaded by more than you thought.

[Iwritecode]

Originally Posted by sudz

EDIT: this is the article I read when I First started looking into getting a trailer (at the time to tow with my 2.4l accord)

https://oppositelock.kinja.com/tow-m...611/1609771499

Reading the article, it looks like the cars are basically the same, it's the trailers and the towing laws that are different.

The most important number to look at is the % of weight over the “nose” or tongue for the UK vs the US. In the UK, the thinking is that if you reduce the tongue weight you can pull more without risking maxing your GAWR out or nosing up the vehicle dangerously and as a result the trailers have their mass much more centralized over the axle which means that the only thing the tow vehicle needs to do is pull in a line, which is less stress on the components. Sounds good right?

However, if you’re still awake you will recall that at low tongue weights with the trailer mass more closely centered to the axle you have a much increased risk of destabilizing oscillations. Given that the trouble really starts, according to the math and the real world example, around 65 mph its no wonder that the UK has a strict limit on trailing and why Jeremy Clarkson has a rational hatred of caravans.

Max tow speed 60 mph on motorways (slower on other roads)

So comparing the tow ratings here vs. the UK isn't an apples to apples comparison.

[SuicideSaints]

Originally Posted by Iwritecode

Reading the article, it looks like the cars are basically the same, it's the trailers and the towing laws that are different.

So comparing the tow ratings here vs. the UK isn't an apples to apples comparison.

Yes, thank you, I was trying to think of a different way to say it....

Of course if you lighten TW to 6% you will see a reduction in weight transferred to the TV (giving more room to the GVWR and freeing up payload in the TV) but that doesn't mean that you should doing that (6%TW) in terms of safety and comfort, a 6% TW means that thing has the potential to sway all over the road, if it starts swaying and it is fully loaded your caravan (still at max/near max) will not have an easy time getting the load under control. This also doesn't change the fact of the max tow of the vehicle.

Again there is no difference between the UK and American models it is just how everyone loads and tows their units.

[bikendan]

European trailers are WAY lighter and lower profile, than North American trailers.

I've spent a total of 3 months in Europe and looked at a few trailers and specs. Smaller sinks, bathrooms, fridges, stoves, beds. Often no a/c or microwaves. Very minimalist.
Plus the lower profile means less air resistance.

I also saw many cars towing them, that were having sway issues.

[Fluffywhitedogs]

Are you looking at Outdoor Travel? They let me walk away rather than deal when I could get an almost identical (Clipper vs Viking) trailer at Mobilife. Ended up paying 2k+ less for a 45 min drive! I'm in Burlington, wanted to stay close, but not for that price!

[sudz]

Originally Posted by Fluffywhitedogs

Are you looking at Outdoor Travel? They let me walk away rather than deal when I could get an almost identical (Clipper vs Viking) trailer at Mobilife. Ended up paying 2k+ less for a 45 min drive! I'm in Burlington, wanted to stay close, but not for that price!

Yes, outdoor travel. Told him when I walked in I wouldn't be buying till spring and he still gladly spent 45 minutes with us walking around the unit.

The clipper lacks a cubby/shelf at the head of the queen which I need for a CPAP machine. I also like a ceiling AC unit and the added cabinet space of the Viking.

In all honesty we'll probably end up buying used though. That'll be another thread: what to look out for.

[Fluffywhitedogs]

Originally Posted by sudz

Yes, outdoor travel. Told him when I walked in I wouldn't be buying till spring and he still gladly spent 45 minutes with us walking around the unit.

The clipper lacks a cubby/shelf at the head of the queen which I need for a CPAP machine. I also like a ceiling AC unit and the added cabinet space of the Viking.

In all honesty we'll probably end up buying used though. That'll be another thread: what to look out for.

The Clipper has all those! I have a 2015 17bh. You're welcome to have a look whenever you like, or I can send some specific interior pics. If you'll be looking to buy used I believe they were a lot more common!

[Fluffywhitedogs]

Originally Posted by Fluffywhitedogs

The Clipper has all those! I have a 2015 17bh. You're welcome to have a look whenever you like, or I can send some specific interior pics. If you'll be looking to buy used I believe they were a lot more common!

And just to clarify, the guys at Outdoor Life were never unpleasant, and did take some time to show me the unit. But when I said I was also looking at a Clipper that was almost identical and significantly cheaper and did they have any flexibility on price because I would prefer to deal with them, they said "no, the price is what is advertised".

[sudz]

Originally Posted by Fluffywhitedogs

And just to clarify, the guys at Outdoor Life were never unpleasant, and did take some time to show me the unit. But when I said I was also looking at a Clipper that was almost identical and significantly cheaper and did they have any flexibility on price because I would prefer to deal with them, they said "no, the price is what is advertised".

Gotcha. I will definitely price shop. Saturday was actually just a test to see if a 17 footer would be enough for us (for me) and if i'd feel clusterphobic in it. (It was surprisingly spacious)

I assume the queen bed becomes a couch of sorts for most people with this trailer when not being slept in. It'd actually be genius if they were to make a futon like platform and a nice foam mattress. But... that would add weight. That I don't have to spare.

There is one RV shop I think off 115/35 in Orono that advertises $14,000, but after looking closely its "internet only" and not available for showing, has a side A/C unit, no solar hookup, 2 jacks instead of 4, no propane, battery, Antenna hookup, no tub surround, no skylight in shower, one power vent instead of 2, no range hood, and no DOORS on the overhead cabinets over the bed. Seems like its worth the extra money (granted I Haven't shopped around yet)

[Jmkjr72]

First issue isn't weight it's max frontal area your van is limited to 40 Sq feet
It can not handle the drag alone then you want to go towards the upper limits of your weight

[sudz]

Originally Posted by Jmkjr72

First issue isn't weight it's max frontal area your van is limited to 40 Sq feet
It can not handle the drag alone then you want to go towards the upper limits of your weight

Where is that listed? Vehicles with less torque and horsepower can tow more, and I talked to a neighbour who pulls an 18 foot double axle hybrid with a toyota sienna, which has less power than my minivan. I don't think power is an issue. Transmission maybe.

[Jmkjr72]

Originally Posted by sudz

Where is that listed? Vehicles with less torque and horsepower can tow more, and I talked to a neighbour who pulls an 18 foot double axle hybrid with a toyota sienna, which has less power than my minivan. I don't think power is an issue. Transmission maybe.

In the service manual I searched the last 10 years f dodge cavan models and they all state 40 Sq feet frontal area that is with tow package without is only 22 Sq feet as I re read the 2010

[Jmkjr72]

And it isn't just about power there are many factors
Cooling (engine trans power adder and power steering)
braking transmission gearing different gearing tires wheel base there are many many things

I live and work in are high tourist are for the midwest you don't want to know how many brake dead owns or close calls I see with people trying to tow thins they think they can because they are in the weight limits

I have a dodge nitro has a higher towing limit then you mini van and a larger frontal area limit then your mini van and let me tell you about towing near that limit the nitro is a dog it fights to hit 60 mph with an empty enclosed cargo trailer that is a v nose with 58 Sq feet of frontal and my limit is 64 Sq feet

[sudz]

Originally Posted by Fluffywhitedogs

The Clipper has all those! I have a 2015 17bh. You're welcome to have a look whenever you like, or I can send some specific interior pics. If you'll be looking to buy used I believe they were a lot more common!

Woah I missed this post! I'll have to check it out! Pictures would be awesome. I'll pm you my e-mail address.

How much does it weigh? (loaded/unloaded)

Edit: holy its exactly the same as the Viking. Weird that it has a double bed instead of a queen. Same dimensions everywhere else!

[Fluffywhitedogs]

Originally Posted by sudz

Woah I missed this post! I'll have to check it out! Pictures would be awesome. I'll pm you my e-mail address.

How much does it weigh? (loaded/unloaded)

Edit: holy its exactly the same as the Viking. Weird that it has a double bed instead of a queen. Same dimensions everywhere else!

They're both 54 x 74, which is full size . Right off the coachmen site
I'll send interior pics and stick pics when I get home.

[Halfmast]

@sudz...

Just a thought.

I've been following this thread with some interest. I can feel for you as it wasn't that long ago that I was in your shoes. I already had a pick-up and I wanted to start RV-ing. I assumed that a truck was a truck was a truck and off I went to look at a camper listed in craigslist.

The seller worked as an airplane mechanic at Atlanta airport. He was used to tolerances and limits. He looked at my truck, pulled out his phone and found on Ford Fleet that my truck would be over its limits with the trailer alone, never mind hitch, propane, water and family.

He said, "I'll sell it to you if you insist but let me tell you that if anything happens, the LAST people you want to make an enemy of is your insurance company." I thanked him and we parted company.

I wish you every success in your dream... safely.

[Jmkjr72]

Here is right from t he dodge owners manual

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by Jmkjr72

Here is right from t he dodge owners manual

If more people read their owners manual first, a lot of questions could already be answered.

That 40 Sq ft limitation is also listed in Ford's CUVs and minivans owners manuals.

You need torque to pull a barn door through the air, which minivans and CUVs lack.

The other limiting factory is the small max tongue weight.
Even the smallest TTs will usually exceed that number when loaded for camping.

[Iwannacamp]

I kinda feel sorry for the OP...but it is the same thing with a different scale for the 3/4T 4X4 diesel boys who want a 5er. Severely limits the 5er you can have. I had three things to mainly worry about... price, weight and "the rest".

Kinda be nice nice to get the rig you want without having to worry about about any of the small details.

[dbledan]

Been there done all this. I had a Honda pilot as the TV and I wanted a pop up, but DW wanted hard sides and a toilet. The pop up was now the cost of a trailer. I looked at all sorts of TTs. 6 years later I bought a new truck and a trailer to max it out with...at least you are doing reasearch first. Now I am looking at F350s to tow with. As an owner of a vehicle near the limit I would warn against it as you won't be happy.

It's a great hobby but expensive and mistakes cost a lot more.

Could you look at an A Frame? They are maybe lighter and would get you in the game sooner with less weight?

If not I say rent one and load it up and take to the scales to see what makes sense. You may hate the driving so much you won't do it or decide you are ok.