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Old 06-02-2011, 09:40 PM   #1
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Fire Safety Concerns/updates

When I did my walk through before purchase on a 2012 Roo 21SS I was very impressed with the camper aspect of the interior and exterior. (upgrading from a fleetwood popup). Now being a firefighter I am also one to look at life safety devices where ever I go. I was severely disappointed with the included (read: useless) fire extinguisher. only good thing about it is that it was located in a good location according to the NFPA (near egress route)

Now before I get full blown into the post I would like to state that I did a quick search through the forums to see if there were any posts such as this. I did not find anything so in addition to my above comments I will post some information and advice to hopefully keep other people safe and give them some information. Maybe a sticky if people like it?

While there are a bunch of different types of fire extinguisher agents (dry chem, CO2, Air Pressurized Water etc) that each have their pros and cons I will not be discussing this.

There are 5 main fire extinguisher Ratings:

A- Ordinary combustibles (pretty much 90% of what a camper is made of). Way to remember: "A turns to Ash when it burns"

B- "Boiling liquids and Vapors" LP, Gas, Diesel, etc.

C- "Charged Electrical Equipment"- self explanatory. HOWEVER- when you removed the electrical charge it will change types- probably to A.

D- "Dangerous when mixed with water" These are special metal fires such as magnesium. You will most likely not encounter these and not need a D rated extinguisher but I include for educational purposes.

K- "Kitchen" This type of extinguisher is for industrial kitchens with large deep fat friers. this is not to be confused with a home kitchen or camper kitchen. You will not need a K rated extinguisher but I included for educational purposes.

For camping applications I highly recommend an ABC extinguisher. Air-Pressurized Water extinguishers are consumer rechargeable squirt guns (for analogy). They are great for dousing camp fires (or water gun fights) but they are A rated only and can be very dangerous if used on B, C, K, and especially D fires.

Now that you've found the rating of the extinguisher that you want its time to look at the specific rating (read: size) of fire extinguishers you would like to get.

The fire extinguisher that is included in my new Roo is a Kidde 5-B:C extinguisher and is the most common included fire extinguisher on new RVs and Boats.

I will be replacing it with a Kidde 3-A:40-B:C.

Now what does this all mean?
By looking at the two ratings we can see the first is a BC rated extinguisher and the second is an ABC rated extinguisher. The first is rated for extinguishing 5 sq. ft. of class B fire and can be used on charged electrical equipment. The second is rated at 3.75 gallons of water equivalent (1.25 times the number) for fighting class A fires, 40 sq. ft. of class B fire, and can be used on charged electrical equipment.

Hope that all makes sense.

Next a quick lesson on how to use a fire extinguisher:

follow the PASS Method:

Pull the Pin
Aim At the base of the fire
Squeeze handle
Sweep nozzle side to side

Keep in mind this is only a guideline and advice. fire safety and prevention is up to you. If you have any specific questions contact your local fire department. Some departments may do fire extinguisher training classes to practice putting out fires with common household (and RV) extinguishers.

Stay safe out there so you can enjoy camping!
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Old 06-02-2011, 10:04 PM   #2
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One of my very first "Mods" was to add a 2 1/2 pound fire extinguisher and flashlight holder near the floor in the bedroom. I figured we might need to fight our way to the door one night. 1 1/2 inch PVC unions make great CHEAP flashlight holders. Smaller ones can be used to hold a smaller flashlight.

We also keep a big 10 pound unit outside next to the door (while in camp) in case a brave soul wanted to fight their way in to get us (or my grill caught fire). (oh it travels INSIDE the truck on the road).

Overkill? I think not.
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Old 06-06-2011, 07:23 PM   #3
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I added an ABG for the bed room, 5th wheel, and one at the fold out couch, so we have 3 ABC types, and know were the e-exits are!....
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Old 06-07-2011, 10:13 AM   #4
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Thanks for the info. I'll have to get a better extinguisher!
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Old 06-07-2011, 10:16 AM   #5
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I have two fire extinguishers in the trailer, and three in the house. never go to bed without a flashlight right where I can reach it ... One never knows when they will be needed.

Thanks for the reminder, everybody needs to have a proper, working, unexpired fire extinguisher in their trailer all the time.
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Old 06-08-2011, 08:27 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goomph View Post
I have two fire extinguishers in the trailer, and three in the house. never go to bed without a flashlight right where I can reach it ... One never knows when they will be needed.

Thanks for the reminder, everybody needs to have a proper, working, unexpired fire extinguisher in their trailer all the time.
Always better to have and not need then to need and not have. A flashlight is a great tool to have as well.
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Old 06-08-2011, 11:12 AM   #7
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Great Post Great Reminder.
Where would you suggest buying fire extinguishers?
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Old 06-08-2011, 12:19 PM   #8
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Great Post Great Reminder.
Where would you suggest buying fire extinguishers?
So long as it is a reputable brand (kidde, Amerex, Ansul, First Alert, etc) you can buy them at any home improvement or hardware store. You could also contact any local fire protection company or call your local fire department and ask where they recommend.
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Old 06-08-2011, 12:52 PM   #9
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Foam the only way to go! Go to website (www.macthefireguy.com) his seminars are at most of the Big Rallys. Youroo!!
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Old 06-15-2011, 01:56 AM   #10
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Thank you for the reminder. A week ago I stopped at Home Depot and picked up a larger ABC extinguisher. This past weekend was 4 day camping with 7 families and I felt better knowing I had a better fire extinguisher along. Even did a bit of fire saftey review with the children!
Thank you for the reminder!
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Old 06-27-2011, 07:58 AM   #11
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Also being a firefighter, the other main issue is not that the included extinguisher is useless, as it is. However, if you have been a FF for very long, you know that once one of these rigs gets going, it doesn't take very long for it to burn itslef out since they burn extremely fast. Your best bet is to not even try to fight it, but get the heck out! Especially with no gear, no water supply, and no bottled air!
Great idea of changing out the extinguisher though. The 2.5 lb ers that are provided will not do much good for anything really.
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Old 06-27-2011, 08:00 AM   #12
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Oh yeah- remember that extinguishers do expire! Most of them are supposed to be checked by a professional once a year, with the lifespan being something like 3-5 years. Read your owner's manual!!!
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Old 06-27-2011, 08:10 AM   #13
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The idea is to be able to fight your way to the door.

There is so much toxic gas once a fire starts staying low and getting to the door should be your only fire plan.

You can be completely overcome with one good breath of smoke or fumes.

Once outside, call 911, turn off and remove the gas bottles if you can do so without getting burned and turn off the breakers on the pedestal.
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Old 06-27-2011, 08:26 AM   #14
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u need to know how to use the extinguisher as well. aim at the base of the flame. those hand held extinguishers don't last very long.
check the pressure on the extinguisher and make sure it still has pressure. every so often, (on the dry chemical ones) turn them upside down and shake the powder to keep it fluffed (abt every month or so...not while in use).
even the larger hand held extinguishers are good for a very short time. it's better to have than to have not but keep that in mind.
flashlight, i have those that plug in that provide a night light and will come on when removed.
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Old 06-27-2011, 01:59 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herk7769 View Post
The idea is to be able to fight your way to the door.

There is so much toxic gas once a fire starts staying low and getting to the door should be your only fire plan.

You can be completely overcome with one good breath of smoke or fumes.

Once outside, call 911, turn off and remove the gas bottles if you can do so without getting burned and turn off the breakers on the pedestal.
great advice
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Old 06-27-2011, 03:19 PM   #16
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Ditto on the great post, ResQ. I'll be making some upgrades! Also--thanks for the lesson on how to properly use the extinguisher. I imagine in the heat of the moment, process & preparedness are critical.
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Old 06-27-2011, 04:29 PM   #17
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New Fire Extinguisher

Well Res - Q, as a result of your post I stopped at Home Depot and picked up a larger ABC extinguisher and it went along on our trip a couple of weeks ago. So chalk one up for positive impact, increased awareness, good reminders etc!
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Old 06-27-2011, 05:22 PM   #18
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I have to add one more thing.

If you are woken by the smoke detector screaming; ROLL out of bed. Especially in a 5th wheel you are VERY close to the ceiling where that poison is concentrated. Just sitting up quickly and breathing in a lungful of fumes can knock you out of the action and you will be of no help to yourself or your family.

ROLL out of bed; Yell to your family to ROLL OUT OF BED; gather your cell phone (from by the bed) and crawl to the door.

REACH UP; do not stand up; and open the door.

This "should" vent the fumes below the door opening. It will also accelerate the fire so get your butt outside; count heads and make that 911 call.

Most likely there will not be a "flashover" because if there was a hot enough fire to have burned up the available oxygen you will be in no condition to get the door open. (A flashover is when NEW oxygen is added to a starved fire that causes an explosion of heat and flame.) This is a big concern to fire fighters because they are GOING INTO the fire. You are trying to get OUT.
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Old 06-27-2011, 09:31 PM   #19
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Aahh… finally an area where I’m a subject matter expert…….

Fire extinguishers are designed for fighting incipient, or initial growth stage fires, before the fire gets developed. As the fire develops, the effects of pyrolosis - the off-gassing of flammable (and toxic) byproducts from solid fuels is magnified. Flashover, mentioned in a previous post, is the right combination of fire gasses, oxygen, and a heat source. Since the ABC fire extinguisher does very little to cool the fire, and stop the pyrolosis, they should not be used on deep-seated, well developed fires.

In modern days, this has been exacerbated by the make-up of today's fuels. In "older" days, when only standard wood, paper, cloth and other Class A combustibles were burning, these fuels were capable of producing or releasing 7000 BTU / Lb. Today’s synthetics typically produce, BTU’s in the 15,000 to 20,000 BTU’s/Lb. range. Keep in mind that gasoline produces 21,000+/- BTU’s / Lb. (130,000+/- BTU/gallon). I remind students all the time that we are now fighting fire with fuels that are, essentially, solidified gasoline! Given the synthetic make-up of today’s modern light-weight RV or TT, this is even more true!

So what does all this mean? Use the fire extinguisher to fight a small, incipient stage fire. Use it to make an escape, if needed. Do NOT use it to fight your way INTO a burning trailer unless it’s to save a savable life.

BTW – In preparation for my MD trip this week, I picked-up a 5lb. 3A, 40BC extinguisher for the TT earlier today. Home Depot had a metal head Kidde for $49.95, so I figured it to be good insurance. While many extinguishers are advertised as “refillable”, plastic valved extinguishers quickly get grooves worn into the valve seat from the discharge of high-pressure powder, and won’t hold pressure for long after refilling. Metal valve units don’t wear-out as quickly, and are a much better value.
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Old 06-27-2011, 10:27 PM   #20
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Removed the tiny "factory" unit and replaced it with a 7 lb'er and Mag-Lite holder by the main door and added a 5-er by the bedroom door.

Like Herk, I always carry a 10lb unit in the truck. Have helped on a couple vehicle fires, and anything smaller is pretty much worthless and gone in seconds. Most vehicle engine fires have too much heat built up, and auto re-ignition keeps occuring once the extinguisher has been exhausted.

Southern Utah, NV, AZ and CA desert highways all have those big black rings on the shoulder every mile of so from all those complete vehicle fires...
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