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Old 05-28-2016, 07:46 PM   #1
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Hard Start Capacitor

hi,
i was on the phone with a service man at airxcel and mentioned that i put a hard start capacitor on by coleman-mach 3+ac. he jump in saying not to do this because it will shorten the life of the ac. "we would of added it if we felt it was needed". yet the schematic on the ac panel shows a hard start in a dotted outline connected to the run capacitor. so i am really confused about the capacitor i just added. what is the bottom line about adding the hard start?
thanks in advance
russ
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Old 05-28-2016, 08:05 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by RMFrawley View Post
hi,
i was on the phone with a service man at airxcel and mentioned that i put a hard start capacitor on by coleman-mach 3+ac. he jump in saying not to do this because it will shorten the life of the ac. "we would of added it if we felt it was needed". yet the schematic on the ac panel shows a hard start in a dotted outline connected to the run capacitor. so i am really confused about the capacitor i just added. what is the bottom line about adding the hard start?
thanks in advance
russ
The service man doesn't know beans from bull foot. Is he going by feelings... aw, that's nice!

There are optional "start assist" called hard start capacitors available from all the major brands and as you noticed, even shows them in the wiring diagram at the unit. I used a generic brand - Supco SPP6 - bought from Amazon and it works great. I got it for times when in the hot south, campground volts drop almost too low and the AC start up can cause a breaker to trip, but is way better with the capacitor added; the added torque at start up has to extend AC life rather than shorten it.
WW
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Old 05-29-2016, 08:27 AM   #3
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This is a very timely post for me. I'm having the same problem here at Darlington Provincial Park this weekend. Voltage at the post is 110 - 111V. I'm drawing 4 amps with just the bathroom fan on and when the AC kicks on it drops down to around 103 - 104V and within seconds the PI EMS shuts down power with an E4 error (low voltage). First time I've had this at a Provincial Park. I may have to add a hard start capacitor and a delay switch.
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Old 05-29-2016, 08:39 AM   #4
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Hard Start Capacitor

If your voltage drops to 104V while running a capacitor will not stop the ems from shutting down. The starting capacitor only helps at startup. I would talk to the ranger to see if you have a bad connection at the post.
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Old 05-29-2016, 09:25 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Happy Vibe View Post
If your voltage drops to 104V while running a capacitor will not stop the ems from shutting down. The starting capacitor only helps at startup. I would talk to the ranger to see if you have a bad connection at the post.
X2

What you might be able to do is switch the WH and fridge to gas and turn off as many 120vac devices as you can.

What you might want to look into is an adapter like the link I posted. I bought one from a member here (Turbs) for way less $$$. The idea if WHEN YOU HAVE 50 amps, you can chose which side (L1 or L2) has the highest voltage... and plug your 30amp into it... I was surprised how different on side (phase) can be from the other. Plus the 50 amp receptacles are not as worn and loose as the 50 amp (typically).

http://www.amazon.com/Conntek-Adatpe...amp+rv+adapter

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Old 05-29-2016, 09:34 AM   #6
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I had the park Technician here yesterday afternoon and he wasn't any help. There are no 50A services at any Provincial Parks so the adapter wouldn't help. This morning just turning on the electric kettle trips the EMS and it didn't last night. Other campers must be using a lot of power during the day. Since it’s Sunday I expect that many campers will be leaving today so I'll check some other site posts to see if they all read the same.
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Old 05-29-2016, 12:04 PM   #7
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Hard Start Capacitor

It is hot for southern Ontario this weekend, so I would guess that a lot of campers are using there AC. I can say I have never been to a campsite that had 50Amps on it.
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Old 07-15-2016, 03:15 PM   #8
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Sorry to revive this older thread....

Will a hard start capacitor reduce the voltage drop when the AC starts up? With around 110 volts at the post I'm hoping that once the initial startup is completed the voltage will stay above 104 volts.
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Old 07-15-2016, 03:51 PM   #9
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A start capacitor will help a compressor get moving but will not make any difference in the supply voltage once the compressor is running.
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Old 07-15-2016, 03:57 PM   #10
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I am not sure about voltage increase/stabilization... start capacitors are intended for motors that don't have the start windings(I know i will be corrected) or the same type of windings as a part start motor. I do know if the motor is working correctly you would not need a start capacitor to assist. Will it hurt anything? Prolly not. I would add a start assist kit and not look back, because if it needs it, then there already is a problem.
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Old 07-15-2016, 04:07 PM   #11
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Hard start Capacitors

Think of a capacitor as like a toilet for an electrical charge. Yeah, I know but work with me here. It gradually fills up with electricity when not being used, then when the circuit is closed, it"dumps" the charge in milliseconds for a "jolt" to get the appliance going. It has no effect what so ever on the line voltage before or after discharge. If you have low voltage before, you will most likely have the same voltage after the start.
I installed HSCs on both my A/Cs on my TT and all three A/Cs on my home.
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Old 07-15-2016, 04:11 PM   #12
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My thought is that it might store and supply (boost) enough current on startup to avoid dropping the supply voltage below 104 but I know I'll still need more than 104 volts once the compressor is running, otherwise the EMS will still shut down the power supply.
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Old 07-15-2016, 04:13 PM   #13
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Great analogy!
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Old 07-15-2016, 04:38 PM   #14
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In my post, EMS means Electrical Management System, as in my 30 amp Progressive Industries EMS.
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Old 07-15-2016, 09:48 PM   #15
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The compressor motor is of the inductive type ... when the motor shuts off, there is refridgerant pressure held in the head, which is difficult to over come at start up. The Start Assist capacitor does just that, giving the motor more torque (with the available voltage), for a very brief moment in time and then it "drops out" after its job is done... an induction motor can turn either direction but can't start on its own and needs either an external force ... or better yet, a start capacitor to "direct it" in which way to turn ... it does this by shifting the natural trailing voltage phase forward in time. These capacitors are charged and discharged 60 times a second.
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Old 07-15-2016, 10:31 PM   #16
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to add to this: the A/C system operates with high head pressure (200 psi or more) and lower suction pressure about 65. For this reason it is important for the compressor to remain off for several minutes between cycles. this off time will allow the pressure to equalize and allow the compressor to start much easier.
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