RE: RV Furnace convert from gas to electric

[4x4FF]

I have installed the "cheap heat" in my 5er and it wasn't exactly cheap but to me it was worth it for the convenience. I am not a full timer and don't camp a while lot in the winter but I do camp sometimes. For me it was the lesson of thinking I had more propane than I did (my fault totally) and running out in the wee hours of the morning. I am fortunate that where I do camp does not meter power so that is a non issue for me. I have used it in the winter and was very satisfied with the results. I have monitored my energy usage while using it and would say it is comparable to running both air conditioners in the middle of summer...except the cheap heat actually cycles unlike the AC. There is virtually no condensation that forms inside unlike using propane and it heats pretty well. Having been a professional firefighter for over 30 years I am not a bit proponent of using several space heaters scattered about. Just my personal opinion...that's all. I've seen too many 'accidents' with them. To me it was worth the price for the convenience of not having to worry about running out of propane at an inopportune time. My 5er is a 2007 so I don't give a rats butt about warranty. If there is a power issue or whatever I simply flip a switch and it reverts to propane as before. I also spent the money and added a ground control leveling system to my 5er. Was it worth it? I think so and I like hitting one button and knowing my rig will be level without fiddling with it. To me it's all about convenience. I was able to aquire my 5er (40') at a very very reasonable price I've done a lot of work to it to make it nice and totally mine. I liken the cheap heat to having an electric or propane water heater. I'd much rather have spent a few extra hundred dollars and not have to worry about running out of propane and have condensation dripping everywhere. Just my $.02.

[jimmarako]

Why does using the propane heater cause condensation to form? Isn't it forced hot air like the electric option, or a typical home system? I would think both would "dry" out the air in the RV equally. Haven't used our furnace yet so don't know what to expect.
Jim M.

[mwdilday]

Originally Posted by jimmarako

Why does using the propane heater cause condensation to form? Isn't it forced hot air like the electric option, or a typical home system? I would think both would "dry" out the air in the RV equally. Haven't used our furnace yet so don't know what to expect.
Jim M.

I am with you. If you are not adding any moisture to the air I would think the moisture in the air would not be effected by the heater. Heaters are not going to dry out the air in an enclosed space. The moisture can only escape the any vents or leaks in the RV.

[jimmarako]

Originally Posted by mwdilday

Heaters are not going to dry out the air in an enclosed space. The moisture can only escape the any vents or leaks in the RV.

OK, you caught me. I do know that heating the air does not actually dry it out. I , like most people I imagine, was going on the fact that when the heat is running it tends to get dryer in the living spaces, for a variety of reasons. That's why I asked the question. This is the first season we've had our RV and have not turned the heat on yet. So I was checking to see if there is some reason that running a propane furnace would lead to more moisture than some form of electric heat.
Now my first house had good old fashion steam heat with big old radiators. Steam heat WILL add moisture to the house. You can see the steam leaking out the side valves every time it turns on. The radiators also make good butt warmers on cold mornings
Jim M.

[Mudbug]

Originally Posted by jimmarako

I would certainly like this option. I wonder if the furnace manufacturers are considering such an idea. Electric heat has been around forever so I'm wondering if there is some reason dual furnaces don't exist (or are not all that common if they do). Heating elements cost like $25 (2K watt I bought to fix my wall heater) so the option should only be a $100-$200 up-sell... should.



This got me looking at something like a toe-kick heater that I could probably squeeze under the oven area. Then I noticed some a nice table top 1500 watt inferred heater at Lowes for $70. That might be the winner if I do anything this year. Small enough the boss might not complain about it being in the trailer [emoji57]

Jim M.

That is exactly what I was saying, cost too much and it is too easy to get cheap portable heaters and plug in. I put one small heater in the front and one in the back to even out the temp then I set the t-stat for the furnace to come on as back up just Incase the electric heat can not keep up. Most of the time here in Texas, the furnace never comes on but if it drops below freezing it will cycle on and off. This is also good because my floor is closed with a duct feeding the under belly to keep tanks and water lines from freezing.

[TowPro]

If your burning propane with a non vented type heater the burning processes produces 1.03 gallons of water as a byproduct ,(according to internet search,)

But your body also produces moisture, and in the winter it will condense on the cold surfaces.

[FFred]

Any RV installed heater should be vented . Although heating the air does not remove moisture , it does lower the humidity as warm air can hold more moisture than cold air.

W use a a small cube heater that is fairly sophisticated. It runs a 500W element when the larger 1500W element is turned off by the thermostat.

Since it is cold outside the 500W keeps the room temp more stable , and the larger element only comes on to top up the temperature.

Many rooftop air cond have , or can install a heating element that works in cold (under 40F) where a reverse cycle air cond stops heating.

Some campgrounds are beginning to charge for electric , so propane which can handle real winter may be cheapest.

[pgandw]

As we all know, condensation occurs when a surface becomes too cold to support the amount of water vapor in the air adjacent to it.

In houses, windows become cold before the walls do - same generally applies to RVs. One of the techniques used in house construction to prevent condensation is to locate heating vents (or heat strips in electric homes) directly beneath the windows. This is not easy to do in RVs, where windows are often placed above cabinets. Cabinets are more valuable in RV floor plans, windows are more sought after in homes.

Venting humid air to the outside (and replacing it with drier cold air from outside) is another method to remove humidity. It seems counter-intuitive, but cracking windows and vents in tents, pop-ups, A-frames, and other small RVs in very cold weather will actually feel warmer because condensation is eliminated.

The final method to help prevent condensation is air circulation. Air circulation prevents the windows from getting as cold as warm air moves past it, and doesn't give as much chance for the cold surface to condense moisture out of the air.

The type of electric heat sources, and where/how they are set up, could easily explain why no condensation with electric heat compared to propane heat.

Fred W
Who learned the hard way to open tent, pop-up, and A-frame vents when camping on cold nights - there's nothing like waking up in a pool of condensation.
2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW A-frame
2008 Hyundai Entourage minivan
camping Colorado and adjacent states one weekend at a time

[4garylee]

Water is a by product of propane and propane burns at a high temp so the water is evaporated into the air while the propane burns. Not kidding...the furnaces in the RV are not exhausted in same fashion of a house so a lot of the moisture is exhausted through the RV. In all seriousness if curious look up propane byproduct.

I plan on putting the cheap heat and the technology behind the design is quite impressive as it’s smart enough to know if you are on 30am or 50amp. Those that haven’t look at the product you might want to just to know more about it. Rather cool!!!

[5picker]

Originally Posted by 4garylee

Water is a by product of propane and propane burns at a high temp so the water is evaporated into the air while the propane burns. Not kidding...the furnaces in the RV are not exhausted in same fashion of a house so a lot of the moisture is exhausted through the RV. In all seriousness if curious look up propane byproduct.



I plan on putting the cheap heat and the technology behind the design is quite impressive as it’s smart enough to know if you are on 30am or 50amp. Those that haven’t look at the product you might want to just to know more about it. Rather cool!!!

Please point us to a R/V furnace that exhausts combustion (and moisture) throughout the R/V?

[B and B]

Originally Posted by jimmarako

So this thread caught my eye. Using "free" electricity to heat instead of propane sounds good. But what is the time to recover the costs? The unit referenced in this thread is going to be pushing $1K once tax, shipping, extras, etc are included. Even more if you have to have it installed by someone. By me a 30lb propane tank cost ~$30 to fill ($4.25/gallon). Thats 33 refills to break even. How much propane does it take to heat a trailer? I've never RV'ed in the cold yet so I don't know what to expect when I head out this winter.
Jim M.

I can not get over the cost of propane stateside. Up here in Canada the cost of Gas and Diesel is almost double but Propane. I can fill 30 lbs at Costco for $14.00.

[B and B]

Originally Posted by 4garylee

Water is a by product of propane and propane burns at a high temp so the water is evaporated into the air while the propane burns. Not kidding...the furnaces in the RV are not exhausted in same fashion of a house so a lot of the moisture is exhausted through the RV. In all seriousness if curious look up propane byproduct.

I plan on putting the cheap heat and the technology behind the design is quite impressive as it’s smart enough to know if you are on 30am or 50amp. Those that haven’t look at the product you might want to just to know more about it. Rather cool!!!

Misinformation. If the propane furnace exhausted inside you would be dead!


As far a cheap heat my payback paying $1500 CAD plus shipping around $150 and duty $200 I can fill 120 30 lb tanks of propane. There is no payback at all.

[LegacyFB38]

Originally Posted by 5picker

Please point us to a R/V furnace that exhausts combustion (and moisture) throughout the R/V?

An open fire pit in the middle of the living room?


4garylee, I think you are mistaken. Every RV furnace I have ever seen does
exhaust to the exterior.

[5picker]

Originally Posted by B and B

I can not get over the cost of propane stateside. Up here in Canada the cost of Gas and Diesel is almost double but Propane. I can fill 30 lbs at Costco for $14.00.

I just filled an empty 30# tank a few days ago for $15.00 at a local gas supply company. Not much different than your price.

[cavie]

Defiantly not a DIY project. Large wire, 20 amp, 35 amp, and 45 amp depending on size of heat strip @ 120 volts. Kinda leaves a 30 amp service out. You would need a 50 amp 240 volt service and be able to access 240 volts in the panel and have room for a 2 pole breaker to use the 35 and 45 amp heat strips at a lower amperage @ 240 volts. Need accessible duct work. AND someplace to put the unit it.

[cavie]

It does not matter what the heat source is. Gas, Electric, Bodyheat, Refridgerator. What ever.

Interior window condensation is caused by excessive moisture in the house/trailer/MH and it often occurs in the winter when the warm air inside the house/trailer/MH condenses on the cold windows. Condensation between window panes occurs when the seal between the panes is broken or when the desiccant inside the windows is saturated. And much worse with single pane windows as in a trailer/MH.

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by 5picker

I just filled an empty 30# tank a few days ago for $15.00 at a local gas supply company. Not much different than your price.

Depends on where you are. I've spent $15 and I've spent $45 on a single 30 lb. cylinder to be filled.

[5picker]

Originally Posted by ependydad

Depends on where you are. I've spent $15 and I've spent $45 on a single 30 lb. cylinder to be filled.

I suppose it does as I've never spent more than $25 to fill a 30# tank in 50 years of camping. Glad I've been at the right places at the right times. [emoji6]

[Flybob]

Originally Posted by 4garylee

Water is a by product of propane and propane burns at a high temp so the water is evaporated into the air while the propane burns. Not kidding...the furnaces in the RV are not exhausted in same fashion of a house so a lot of the moisture is exhausted through the RV. In all seriousness if curious look up propane byproduct.

Yes burning propane does create moisture, however the combustion system in an RV is total sealed and vented to the outside and is isolated from the circulated inside air unless there is a damaged heat exchanger.

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by 5picker

I suppose it does as I've never spent more than $25 to fill a 30# tank in 50 years of camping. Glad I've been at the right places at the right times. [emoji6]

Freaking New Jersey shore at a gas station. The only other option was a long drive.

I couldn't believe it!