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07-08-2021, 05:30 PM
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#21
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Trailer Park Supervisor
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 8,564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry-NC
How do you know that the MicroAir installation was done correctly and safely? Could a bad installation have been the cause of the failure?
I don't let others do this kind of work for me. Too many incompetent workers out there.
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I was just studying install instructions and videos. For me, I know I can do this. If you can install a car stereo yourself, you can probably do this. For the average RV owner, not so sure. Yeah, I'd rather do it myself than trust some under/untrained tech. BTW, LOTS of high voltage capacitors in an A/C unit that I'm surprised nobody has killed themselves with yet, lol.
__________________
2019 Rockwood Geo Pro G19FD w/off road package
2015 Ford F150 XLT Super Cab 4x4 V8
Yes, I drink the water!
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07-08-2021, 05:38 PM
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#22
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Kansas
Posts: 1,272
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I went with the Micro Air East Start ... install took all of 30 minutes including taking bonnet off and back on. You need to understand that any soft start will reduce the start up amps, but it does not reduce running amps. Therefore, it helps people running generators more so than people that most always plug into shore power. Granted a soft start will help with trying to run 2 A/C's on shore power due to its low start up amp draw ... but if your units are like mine ... running amps combined are greater than a 30 amp shore power circuit. Of course a 50 amp circuit will have no issue. I will concede that a soft start may help your A/C lifespan as the A/C sure starts up will less of a thump when the compressor kicks in.
As for the capacitors ... with the shore power off ... simply touch any 2 lugs with a screwdriver to drain the capacitor before doing any wiring change.
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07-08-2021, 05:59 PM
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#23
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Trailer Park Supervisor
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 8,564
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Quote:
As for the capacitors ... with the shore power off ... simply touch any 2 lugs with a screwdriver to drain the capacitor before doing any wiring change.
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WE know that, but there are plenty of folks that don't know about the genie in the bottle. Lucky for most of those people, they don't mess around with electric. But there's always one...
__________________
2019 Rockwood Geo Pro G19FD w/off road package
2015 Ford F150 XLT Super Cab 4x4 V8
Yes, I drink the water!
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07-08-2021, 07:16 PM
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#24
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Eastern Pa
Posts: 134
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Soft Start vs Easy Start
I did some research and comparisons about a year ago when I purchased the Soft Start for my TT. I never installed it because I traded it in for a Class B.
I'm not an expert and have no experience to judge by, but a difference I observe is that Soft Start has 5 wires and Easy Start has 4. If I'm reading the diagrams correctly, the difference is that the Soft Start controls the fan engagement in addition to the compressor. That fan also draws quite bit of startup current. It seems to me that might result in greater efficiency and amperage limitation for the Soft Start.
Like I said, I'm not an expert. Check it out and see what you think. I WILL be installing the Soft Start in my Class B shortly - haven't gotten around to that project, yet.
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07-08-2021, 07:55 PM
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#25
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 9,574
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Because...
Quote:
Originally Posted by markb422
Why don't the manufacturers install these things on their units at the assembly line? I know, $$, but it seems like a good selling point.
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Because they don't sell to consumers. They sell to high-volume manufacturers who, unfortunately, don't care.
__________________
Larry
"Everybody's RV is not like your RV."
"Always take pictures with the button on the right."
"Always bypass the water heater before opening the low-point drains."
Sticks and Bricks: Raleigh, NC
2008 Cherokee 38P: at Ivor, VA permanently
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07-08-2021, 08:07 PM
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#26
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 9,574
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Getting there
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjuscg
Soft Start vs Easy Start
I did some research and comparisons about a year ago when I purchased the Soft Start for my TT. I never installed it because I traded it in for a Class B.
I'm not an expert and have no experience to judge by, but a difference I observe is that Soft Start has 5 wires and Easy Start has 4. If I'm reading the diagrams correctly, the difference is that the Soft Start controls the fan engagement in addition to the compressor. That fan also draws quite bit of startup current. It seems to me that might result in greater efficiency and amperage limitation for the Soft Start.
Like I said, I'm not an expert. Check it out and see what you think. I WILL be installing the Soft Start in my Class B shortly - haven't gotten around to that project, yet.
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I do have a little expertise, and you're getting there. I wouldn't say that you would see "greater efficiency" since these devices are only active for a few milliseconds, but you would indeed see a reduction in the current peak.
You have correctly inferred that the 5-wire device is superior to the 4-wire device. Since both motors have a peak inrush current it makes sense to stagger their startups. Start the big compressor motor first. After it's running, start the small fan motor.
__________________
Larry
"Everybody's RV is not like your RV."
"Always take pictures with the button on the right."
"Always bypass the water heater before opening the low-point drains."
Sticks and Bricks: Raleigh, NC
2008 Cherokee 38P: at Ivor, VA permanently
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07-08-2021, 08:23 PM
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#27
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Family room couch
Posts: 4,558
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Quote:
I'm not an expert and have no experience to judge by, but a difference I observe is that Soft Start has 5 wires and Easy Start has 4. If I'm reading the diagrams correctly, the difference is that the Soft Start controls the fan engagement in addition to the compressor. That fan also draws quite bit of startup current. It seems to me that might result in greater efficiency and amperage limitation for the Soft Start.
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I do not know what the extra wire on the SoftStartRV does however I can assure you that the Micro-Air EasyStarts I installed do indeed control the fan separately. The fan starts, gets running, and five seconds later the compressor starts. That's actually in their manual.
EDIT: I was looking at SoftStartRV's site and diagrams and saw this in their Troubleshooting section. See Q2 and the attached pic: https://www.softstartrv.com/troubleshooting/
Ray
__________________
2020 Georgetown GT5 34H5
2020 Equinox Premier AWD 2.0L/9-speed
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07-08-2021, 08:27 PM
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#28
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 38
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I also installed the Micro Air in my A Frame. What I like about is when the compressor comes on, no loud thump or vibration. Much quieter startup.
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07-08-2021, 09:25 PM
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#29
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Eastern Pa
Posts: 134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NXR
I do not know what the extra wire on the SoftStartRV does however I can assure you that the Micro-Air EasyStarts I installed do indeed control the fan separately. The fan starts, gets running, and five seconds later the compressor starts. That's actually in their manual.
EDIT: I was looking at SoftStartRV's site and diagrams and saw this in their Troubleshooting section. See Q2 and the attached pic: https://www.softstartrv.com/troubleshooting/
Ray
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Thanks, NXR for the clarification. Didn't intend to mislead anyone.. Still don't have an answer to the 4 wire / 5 wire question.
JJ
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07-09-2021, 08:25 AM
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#30
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,049
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJKris
The Micro Air is back in stock on their website, just ordered.
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Thought you were "kitted out", Kris (LoL).....NOT!
__________________
2020 Forest River Sabre 37FLH
2013 Ford F-350 XL Crew Cab 6.7L Diesel DRW
Tulip, the Wonder-Shepherd
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07-09-2021, 08:29 AM
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#31
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,049
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry-NC
I suppose if you left pets in the trailer on a hot day and could monitor the A/C current remotely, seeing periodic current draw would reassure you that the pets were okay.
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I use RV Whisper to monitor my WatchDog EMS, and inside temps in the front and back of the rig for my pooch. I get texts and emails whenever power goes offline, if the EMS detects power anomalies, or if temps get too warm because power is interrupted. Works fantastic!
__________________
2020 Forest River Sabre 37FLH
2013 Ford F-350 XL Crew Cab 6.7L Diesel DRW
Tulip, the Wonder-Shepherd
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07-09-2021, 08:41 AM
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#32
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,049
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ciditad
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I'm pretty sure I'm going to be buying the SoftStarts in the upcoming days. According to what I've seen on newer YouTube videos on installing this system, the new installation kit includes a method where no wires need to be cut for a successful install.
However, for the other connections, no way am I going to use the supplied wire nuts or crimping nuts. Last year, I bought a starter pack of Wago connectors, but haven't had a wiring project to use them with until now. Looking forward to using them as they seem to be very simple, but seem to work great and no need for extra wiring insulation with electrical tape.
__________________
2020 Forest River Sabre 37FLH
2013 Ford F-350 XL Crew Cab 6.7L Diesel DRW
Tulip, the Wonder-Shepherd
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07-09-2021, 08:59 AM
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#33
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,049
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselguy
I went with the Micro Air East Start ... install took all of 30 minutes including taking bonnet off and back on. You need to understand that any soft start will reduce the start up amps, but it does not reduce running amps. Therefore, it helps people running generators more so than people that most always plug into shore power. Granted a soft start will help with trying to run 2 A/C's on shore power due to its low start up amp draw ... but if your units are like mine ... running amps combined are greater than a 30 amp shore power circuit. Of course a 50 amp circuit will have no issue. I will concede that a soft start may help your A/C lifespan as the A/C sure starts up will less of a thump when the compressor kicks in.
As for the capacitors ... with the shore power off ... simply touch any 2 lugs with a screwdriver to drain the capacitor before doing any wiring change.
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Thanks for the heads up on draining the capacitor first. NONE of the YouTube videos instructed you to do this as part of the installation process.
Also, one of the things I failed to mention in the OP was that I was hoping for this product to help reduce the wear and tear on both AC units in my rig. AC units are very expensive these days, and for some models, almost impossible to source. I was just at the OBX last week and a Master RV Tech that was at the campground I was staying at told me he's got low profile AC units ordered almost a year ago that he still hasn't received.
I've already installed in my RV windows a nano ceramic heat rejecting tint to help keep the RV cooler and hopefully keep the AC's from working as hard. Prior to that, I had plain clear windows with no tinting at all. Also, I plan to install shortly the RV Airflow System in my AC plenum to make both AC's more efficient in cooling. All these upgrades should help significantly with the longevity of both units.
__________________
2020 Forest River Sabre 37FLH
2013 Ford F-350 XL Crew Cab 6.7L Diesel DRW
Tulip, the Wonder-Shepherd
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07-09-2021, 05:15 PM
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#34
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 222
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I just installed the Micro Air Easy Start yesterday on a 13,500 BTU Dometic. I bought it along with the optional $10 install kit from Hutch Mountain. I recommend getting the install kit.
I watched a number of installation videos and found that the video on the Hutch Mountain website is among the best, regardless of where you buy it. It shows you right in the video how to discharge the capacitor before you do anything else.
After the five "learning starts" I connected our TT to my Honda "EU2000 Companion" and it ran the A/C without needing the second EU2000 connected. Hoorah!
__________________
2015 Wildcat Maxx 28' pushing a 2020 F350 6.7L
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07-09-2021, 07:02 PM
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#35
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Trailer Park Supervisor
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 8,564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GPs37FLH
Thought you were "kitted out", Kris (LoL).....NOT!
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As of Monday when the Micro Air Soft Start arrives, yup! Will be absolutely and completely kitted out! I'll never need anything else for the RV!!! I have it ALL!! Mwahahahahahahaha!
__________________
2019 Rockwood Geo Pro G19FD w/off road package
2015 Ford F150 XLT Super Cab 4x4 V8
Yes, I drink the water!
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07-09-2021, 07:05 PM
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#36
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Trailer Park Supervisor
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 8,564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GPs37FLH
Thanks for the heads up on draining the capacitor first. NONE of the YouTube videos instructed you to do this as part of the installation process.
Also, one of the things I failed to mention in the OP was that I was hoping for this product to help reduce the wear and tear on both AC units in my rig. AC units are very expensive these days, and for some models, almost impossible to source. I was just at the OBX last week and a Master RV Tech that was at the campground I was staying at told me he's got low profile AC units ordered almost a year ago that he still hasn't received.
I've already installed in my RV windows a nano ceramic heat rejecting tint to help keep the RV cooler and hopefully keep the AC's from working as hard. Prior to that, I had plain clear windows with no tinting at all. Also, I plan to install shortly the RV Airflow System in my AC plenum to make both AC's more efficient in cooling. All these upgrades should help significantly with the longevity of both units.
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Not required. I like the excitement of knowing if I touch the terminals, my heart might stop. I picture myself disarming a bomb like on Die Hard. Was it the red wire? Or the brown wire?
__________________
2019 Rockwood Geo Pro G19FD w/off road package
2015 Ford F150 XLT Super Cab 4x4 V8
Yes, I drink the water!
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07-09-2021, 07:07 PM
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#37
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Trailer Park Supervisor
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 8,564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GPs37FLH
I'm pretty sure I'm going to be buying the SoftStarts in the upcoming days. According to what I've seen on newer YouTube videos on installing this system, the new installation kit includes a method where no wires need to be cut for a successful install.
However, for the other connections, no way am I going to use the supplied wire nuts or crimping nuts. Last year, I bought a starter pack of Wago connectors, but haven't had a wiring project to use them with until now. Looking forward to using them as they seem to be very simple, but seem to work great and no need for extra wiring insulation with electrical tape.
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The Micro Air install kit does not have wire nuts. The online install directions specifically say that household wire nuts and auto terminals are not to be used and are insufficient for current or won't hold up to vibrations.
__________________
2019 Rockwood Geo Pro G19FD w/off road package
2015 Ford F150 XLT Super Cab 4x4 V8
Yes, I drink the water!
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07-09-2021, 08:07 PM
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#38
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 38
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Can never have enuf
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJKris
I'll never need anything else for the RV!!! I have it ALL!! Mwahahahahahahaha!
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Did you look at their easy touch thermostat, wink wink, nudge nudge…
Bill
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07-09-2021, 08:16 PM
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#39
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Trailer Park Supervisor
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 8,564
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I actually did! But my A/C is a central blast unit, has a thermostat knob on it, and the propane heater has a good ol' tried and true analog thermostat. I never use the propane heater anyway, just the heat strip I installed in the AC unit.
__________________
2019 Rockwood Geo Pro G19FD w/off road package
2015 Ford F150 XLT Super Cab 4x4 V8
Yes, I drink the water!
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07-10-2021, 07:41 AM
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#40
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,049
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJKris
Not required. I like the excitement of knowing if I touch the terminals, my heart might stop. I picture myself disarming a bomb like on Die Hard. Was it the red wire? Or the brown wire?
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.....Thanks for the new coffee stains all over the front of my T-shirt, Kris!
__________________
2020 Forest River Sabre 37FLH
2013 Ford F-350 XL Crew Cab 6.7L Diesel DRW
Tulip, the Wonder-Shepherd
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