Article: What Does Camping Look Like In Five Years

[Jperry]

Interesting reading...
https://rvbusiness.com/koep-kelley-w..._source=RVLIFE

[TheWolfPaq82]

just think the money my 52 acres in Missouri could make.

[Reverse_snowbird]

Unfortunately, the increase in 'newbies' also means that many of the traditional rvers are quitting the road due to higher prices and crowded campgrounds. Should be interesting how the industry looks in 5 years.

[Theo]

As more folks hit the roads, they will still need to be "connected". I think several of the effects will occur through communication infrastructure changes:

• increased saturation/penetration of cell-based communications;
• widespread rollout of the Starlink network.

While some of us use camping to "get away from it all", I'm guessing a fair percentage of newbies will want to stay electronically tethered to the digital world. I have to admit that in recent years, I am no stranger to feeling the need to check my email.

[hobienick]

I have started to transition my career so I have the ability to work with remotely. Once that happens I can go on long trips with the family, continue to work, and have great places to spend my after we work time. Connectivity is important for people like me. As for getting away from it as all that will take discipline on my part.

[astro-jason]

Very interesting read, for sure. I'm hoping that this will lead to new industry standards, for quality workmanship in the design and assembly of T.T's, 5er's and M.H.'s. Hopefully they will be regulated kinda like the automotive industry.

The lack of quality control during the build process is just pure crazy.

-Jason

[RockDodger]

Once the government sticks their fingers in the pie, camping may no longer be affordable for a lot of people. I ask the question of campground owners why some of them charge so damn much money for an overnight stay. The ones that actually will talk about it cite insurance, utility costs, employee increases, and government regulation. Not to mention increased property taxes on commercial properties. Some just say they overcharge simply because they can. If folks want to camp bad enough they will pay the price.

Call me a cheapskate, but I don't stay anywhere that costs more than $45 a night. I recently had to upgrade my policy from $35 a night. I think that if the government starts regulating the manufacturing process a lot of companies will fold. The price of RVs will be as ridiculous as a new pull vehicle. Of, course for people with a lot of money this won't be an issue. I think, however, it will restrict a lot of folks from buying new RVs and will definately "thin out the herd" so to speak. Government regulation on manufacturing might be a good thing for quality control, but it certainly won't do our pocketbooks any good. It will be a real circus as always, because everyone knows the government can't run a business to save their lives. It will be interesting to watch.

[pgandw]

Originally Posted by astro-jason

Very interesting read, for sure. I'm hoping that this will lead to new industry standards, for quality workmanship in the design and assembly of T.T's, 5er's and M.H.'s. Hopefully they will be regulated kinda like the automotive industry.

The lack of quality control during the build process is just pure crazy.

Be careful what you ask for. Quality can't be regulated in, it has to be built in by those on the assembly line. Which requires a mind and culture change from the assembly line up. Ask Jeep and Chrysler how well the their corporate quality initiatives have turned out - hit or miss at best.

A first step in quality would be to change from piece work payment to the assembly line to salaries, or even better tie pay to sold units. Then make the line stop when a defect is spotted. Automation helps with quality, but would require substantially fewer floor plans and options. Place quality requirements/incentives on your supply chain.

Government regulation always has 2 effects - limits new competition and drives prices up. Regulation automatically drives up the "cost of entry" for new competitors, increasing the cost of compliance even if there are no other cost increases.

Government regulation on design or performance stifles innovation. Again, an automotive example is seat belts and air bags. There are no alternate designs for passenger protection because getting the changes through the regulators is costly and time consuming. And since all your competitors are using the same design, why bother to innovate? I'd rather have a 5 point seat harness like I wore in the helicopter - far safer and a lot cheaper than the current 3 point harness plus air bags. But my idea will never happen because the current design is locked in. And my idea is illegal under current regulations.

just my experiences
Fred W
2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW A-frame
2008 Hyundai Entourage minivan
camping Colorado and adjacent states one weekend at a time

[astro-jason]

I understand completely about the Government getting involved, I should have been a little more descriptive in my post, I'm talking about the warranty and repair aspect. The dealerships say the manufacturer is the quality control and the manufacturer says that the dealership is basically the quality control.

None the less I think something will happen, because if all of these people cant work "because of covid" Then that means they already have money and they are spending it on RV's for vacation. They will be mad as heck when they don't have their new toy for possibly month's waiting for it to be fixed.

Just a different perspective to look at.

-Jason

[pgandw]

Originally Posted by astro-jason

I understand completely about the Government getting involved, I should have been a little more descriptive in my post, I'm talking about the warranty and repair aspect. The dealerships say the manufacturer is the quality control and the manufacturer says that the dealership is basically the quality control.

None the less I think something will happen, because if all of these people cant work "because of covid" Then that means they already have money and they are spending it on RV's for vacation. They will be mad as heck when they don't have their new toy for possibly month's waiting for it to be fixed.

Just a different perspective to look at.

-Jason

I don't doubt that more government intervention/regulation is coming, thanks to the pitiful state of RV quality.

Probably the easiest way to please the mass of newcomers would be enforcement of and longer warranties, probably through government regulations (could be court-ordered from lawsuits also). But that's not going to do a thing to improve the actual workmanship at either assembly or repair. From reading on here, many RV dealers have incompetent repair and service departments. And there are still incompetent automobile mechanics and shops. But the days of having to take your new car back for 7-12 defects under warranty are mostly gone. Unfortunately, it hasn't changed for new RVs.

Japanese automakers went down the quality road first with the guidance of some US process engineers. Then Japan started eating Detroit for lunch with higher quality cars for less money ('70s and '80s). The Japanese also took a very heavy hand with their dealers - you did it the Honda or the Toyota way or you didn't get a franchise. Even so, Toyota and Honda dealers still have problems with fixing their cars. It took Detroit over 20 years to get its act together on quality, and it took the 2008 govt bailout for GM and Chrysler to get rid of a lot of their problematic dealers.

I do my RV and automotive purchases and service different from most. I don't consider myself a great or even good negotiator, so I'm not interested in trying to beat the sales dept at their game. Instead, I'll spend 30 minutes in the evening at close, or in the morning opening in the service dept, just listening and watching. If I see several people complaining this is the 3rd time they've brought their vehicle in for the same problem, the warning flag is up. The service dept is every bit as important to me as the sales dept.

Likewise, I spend hours on the internet researching vehicles I'm interested in. When I walk into the dealership, I have a fairly good idea of the features and issues of a particular model. The 1st salesman lie to me, or condescending remark to DW or DD, the flag is up. The 2nd time, I'm out of there. I used to be a die-hard Ford guy. But all the local Ford dealerships still have the old-time mentality. So I haven't bought a Ford in over 15 years - bought 6 Toyotas/Scions and 3 Hyundais/Kias instead.

Most people don't do this for whatever reasons, because the crappy dealerships are still there, doing a bangup business. For that reason, I don't expect any near-term changes from this surge in the RV business. The current business model works and is profitable despite the unhappiness among consumers.

I ranted way too long, and nobody will read this.

Fred W

[Robbie D. Camper]

I read it and appreciate your perspective. I liked your hanging around and listening idea. We will be looking to upgrade next year, I think I might just try that out. Even if we’re “disappointed “ in a dealership or model. It could still be a fun road trip day with my better half.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by pgandw

Most people don't do this for whatever reasons, because the crappy dealerships are still there, doing a bangup business. For that reason, I don't expect any near-term changes from this surge in the RV business. The current business model works and is profitable despite the unhappiness among consumers.

I ranted way too long, and nobody will read this.

Fred W

You've nailed the reason why no change has occured and probably never will.

As long as people keep buying flawed products, and all he factories can produce, why would anything change?

The RV industry will never be faced with the same force for change the automobile industry met in the 70's when foreign manufacturers entered the US market en masse.

[Swimmer]

We are still in the research phase and my extensive RV experience involves one long weekend in a rented C class about 15 years ago when our kids were still around. I hit a large tree branch while trying to park it, and my toddler son fell out of his bed while sleeping and broke his collarbone. But, it was a fun trip other than a few mishaps.

Back to this thread:

Fit and Finish - The quality of work, and materials used are definitely lower than I was expecting to see when I was looking at new models on the lot this Summer. Even the more expensive Super C’s I saw just didn’t seem to be that much better for the extra $.

Moderators, you can put this on the “High end quality issues” thread if you want to.

[phillyg]

I suspect diesel will be near $5/gal within three years, and diesel engines to be forced out of use in ten years. I also suspect many folks will be priced out of the vagabond life by then.

[D W]

Originally Posted by phillyg

I suspect diesel will be near $5/gal within three years, and diesel engines to be forced out of use in ten years. I also suspect many folks will be priced out of the vagabond life by then.

X2. Rather than "priced out", it will be "taxed out".

[Rolling Chaos]

Just the way I see it. Will be lucky if anybody is camping in 5 years. At least the normal people wont be . If the attack on oil continues and the price goes up , nobody is going anywhere. The restrictions on oil production in this country will start to raise world prices and will be stuck paying way more for it. There are people out there now who can't stand other people camping using RV's . Your not going anywhere in 5 years if things don't change. There are some of you who remember when the the gas crunch of the Jimmy Carter years hit us. RV sales and use went down the tubes over night. Some of us have not forgotten that time and it's about to hit this industry again. Sad part is it doesn't have to happen and it'll be our own fault.
Then again at least they can watch all those jobs go bye bye adding to the huge unemployment numbers that we are starting to see in just the last few weeks.

[phillyg]

I didn't bother to read the article. IMHO, once diesel hits $6/gal (which will include a Federal gas tax hike), or we're forced to stop using fossil fuels, the face of RV'ing will be changed forever.

[TheWolfPaq82]

The Economy will dictate what happens. High fuel costs, Inflation...not "If" but "When." Unemployment...already increasing dramatically. C.G. availablity is maxed out in Nebraska. Heard a Game and Parks official estimate we'd be around a 53 to 1 ratio in 2021. 53 RV's per 1 campsite. So glad we sold out and bought our cabin.

[NMWildcat]

Rving in the past has been a discretionary income hobby. Those that have it will continue, same as always. You don't get into RVing to save money.
There are always those who proclaim doom and gloom and that the sky is falling. For most of us 'normal' folks, life just goes on and doesn't look much different. We always find ways to keep doing what we truly want to do.

[ppine]

Plenty of people live in RVs because they are the cheapest form of housing. As employment becomes more remote and does not require going "to an office" more people will be full timers living on the road. The demand for outdoor recreation will increase due to Covid.

We can agree that RV demand is likely to increase faster than it has in recent years. Most of theses people are fixated on National Parks, State Parks and RV Parks. Popular National Parks may have visitor limits under a permit system in the near future. Dispersed RV use may also increase as a response to more people on the road.