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Old 09-18-2022, 01:30 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Homebrew View Post
So what would be the proper outlet/ connector to back feed your house with a portable generator without a transfer switch?
Not sure if legal or not, but NEVER a good idea to back feed a house without a transfer switch or interlock switch.
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Old 09-18-2022, 01:33 PM   #22
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Thanks, I will look into a interlock for my main breaker.
IMO, interlock is the way to go. Then you can use any circuit in the house, not limited like a transfer switch. My generator won't run the entire house, but with the interlock I can choose whatever is needed.
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Old 09-21-2022, 01:56 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Homebrew View Post
Hooking up a generator to a home requires some knowledge of your system. Back feeding at the wrong time will create your system to trip. Preventing the tripping is easy if you understand how it works.
Problem is there is nothing on the market to make it safer without a transfer switch.
X2. A transfer switch is the only proper way. Anything else is a mickey mouse-jerry rigged affair, but then again, you can't fix stupid. The companies in china that make and sell these cords consider the consumer as a useful idiot.
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Old 09-21-2022, 02:24 PM   #24
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X2. A transfer switch is the only proper way. Anything else is a mickey mouse-jerry rigged affair, but then again, you can't fix stupid. The companies in china that make and sell these cords consider the consumer as a useful idiot.
An interlock is also a proper and code approved way.
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Old 09-21-2022, 02:40 PM   #25
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I have one of those male to male cords. I used a 25' cord and cut the female end off and installed a male end. I use it once every year or two to backfeed the house when the power goes out. I disconnect the mains (so I don't backfeed the grid), plug in the male to male cord then turn the A/C power switch on the generator to ON. Nothing unsafe about that process, but I do understand some people don't have common sense these days.

One disadvantage is you don't know when the power has been restored to grid. Have to keep an eye on the neighboring houses for restored power.

$25 extension cord is certainly less expensive than a transfer switch and professional installation.
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Old 09-21-2022, 03:34 PM   #26
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X2. A transfer switch is the only proper way. Anything else is a mickey mouse-jerry rigged affair, but then again, you can't fix stupid.
As another poster noted, a safety interlock device can be used instead of a transfer switch.
The interlock device on my load center is not a mickey mouse-jerry rigged affair, and neither is the circuit breaker, wiring and the generator inlet box.
I pulled my own homeowner's electrical permit, installed the generator inlet box, wiring, circuit breaker and the interlock device, and it passed the electrical inspection.
I like to do things "to code" for homeowner insurance reasons.
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Old 09-21-2022, 03:43 PM   #27
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X2. A transfer switch is the only proper way. Anything else is a mickey mouse-jerry rigged affair, but then again, you can't fix stupid. The companies in china that make and sell these cords consider the consumer as a useful idiot.
You might want to tell Square D that their circuit breaker interlock is a mickey mouse-jerry rigged affair. I'm sure they will be happy to hear your input.

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Old 09-21-2022, 04:06 PM   #28
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You might want to tell Square D that their circuit breaker interlock is a mickey mouse-jerry rigged affair. I'm sure they will be happy to hear your input.

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Mine looks exactly like that only different.
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Old 09-22-2022, 07:17 PM   #29
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so does mine look like the square d, but i have never had to use it so i have forgotten how to use it....

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Old 09-22-2022, 11:07 PM   #30
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so does mine look like the square d, but i have never had to use it so i have forgotten how to use it....

Bill
Turn off the main breaker. Turn the generator breaker on. Plug it in and fire it up!
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Old 09-23-2022, 07:40 AM   #31
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You do have to be smarter than what you are playing with. Just another useless regulation that won't make any difference.
I have several male to male and female to female cords. Never used them to backfeed a house, but I do use them when my wife and her sisters spend all day setting up Xmas lights and don't pay attention to what end goes where.
Saves a lot of tantrum throwing that will occur if I tell them they have to reorient everything
I was stupid enough ONCE to make up a male to male cord for the Christmas lights I didn't want to restring on the exterior of the house because I didn't pay attention when I was stringing. Luckily I learned very quickly, and didn't fall off the ladder when I saw the aluminum gutter starting to discolor where the live male end was hanging.

There is a reason why the male end of power cords always point to the source, but I never heard anybody tell me that rule in all my years of electrical and engineering work.

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Old 09-23-2022, 07:52 AM   #32
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I installed this interlock kit when I wired my PTO generator into the house. Inexpensive and easy to install. Had to move some breakers around to accommodate the generator breaker but overall easy job.
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Old 09-23-2022, 08:29 AM   #33
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I have not seen one of these in years but they were refered to at one time as "suicide cords".
That should tell you everything you need to know.
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Old 09-23-2022, 08:50 AM   #34
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Turn off the main breaker. Turn the generator breaker on. Plug it in and fire it up!
as i remember when i installed it a 100 years ago, i connected the generator connection only to the 110 lower half of the breaker panel as i knew my generator was not going to run the 220 stuff in the house (a/c, well pump, etc)

so, if i remember correctly, my intent was/is to turn off the main breaker, turn off all the 220 breakers and then connect the generator to the remaining 110s

my guess is the blue breaker labelled service disconnect is the one that feeds the generator connect box, if so then flipping the main disconnect shuts down everything, then flipping all the breakers above the blue labelled one just serves as a switch and prevents backfeed to everything above the switch/breaker. (shuts off everything except the 110s below). THEN flipping the interlock in the generator box connects the generator to all the 110s in the main box....

i believe the generator box is simply an in/out pass through allowing generator or panel power to energize the 110s, either one or the other, but not both...

Bill
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Old 09-23-2022, 09:07 AM   #35
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[QUOTE=wmtire;2784322]I am posting this in case any members are using same when connecting a generator to a RV

https://www.cpsc.gov/Newsroom/News-R...soning-Hazards

Washington, D.C. -- The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) is warning consumers to immediately stop using and discard male-to-male extension cords sold on Amazon.com due to shock, electrocution, fire, and carbon monoxide poisoning hazards.



The extension cords have two male ends (a three-prong plug) and are generally used to “back-feed” electricity to a residence during a power outage by connecting a generator to an outlet in the home. When plugged into a generator or outlet, the opposite end has live electricity posing a risk of serious shock or electrocution. Additionally, the flow of electric power in the direction reverse to that of the typical flow of power circumvents safety features of the home’s electrical system and can result in a fire. The short length of some of these cords also encourages use of a generator near the home, which could create a risk of carbon monoxide poisoning. Furthermore, these cords do not comply with applicable national safety codes, such as National Fire Protection Association 70 (NFPA 70).

These extension cords were sold in multiple colors and lengths and under various brand names. The extension cords were sold on Amazon.com for between $40 and $72. Some of the known Amazon Standard Identification Numbers (ASINs) associated with these products are identified below. The ASIN is found in the product’s URL bar (typically after the product name and “dp”). The ASIN can also be found in the product details section of the listing on Amazon.com under “Additional Information.”
ASIN
B0953LWLDN
B095LHT5M5
B096VT4495
B095LRG6MH
B0933CJG16
B097TGQDQ6
B097BLRDTQ
B0953MSP65
B0953QGLZZ

CPSC urges consumers not to purchase or sell male-to-male extension cords and to stop using and dispose of these products immediately. Report a dangerous product or a product-related injury on www.SaferProducts.gov.[/QUOTE

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Old 09-23-2022, 09:10 AM   #36
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I was stupid enough ONCE to make up a male to male cord for the Christmas lights I didn't want to restring on the exterior of the house because I didn't pay attention when I was stringing. Luckily I learned very quickly, and didn't fall off the ladder when I saw the aluminum gutter starting to discolor where the live male end was hanging.

There is a reason why the male end of power cords always point to the source, but I never heard anybody tell me that rule in all my years of electrical and engineering work.

Fred W
Most people make their connections before they plug into power!
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Old 09-23-2022, 09:23 AM   #37
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Anything can hurt or kill you if used wrong a gun. Too much or not enough dihydrogen monoxide. putting your hands on a live circuit. Those cords are as safe as the user common sense plays a big role in life.
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Old 09-23-2022, 09:45 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by pgandw View Post
I was stupid enough ONCE to make up a male to male cord for the Christmas lights I didn't want to restring on the exterior of the house because I didn't pay attention when I was stringing. Luckily I learned very quickly, and didn't fall off the ladder when I saw the aluminum gutter starting to discolor where the live male end was hanging.

There is a reason why the male end of power cords always point to the source, but I never heard anybody tell me that rule in all my years of electrical and engineering work.

Fred W
All my male to male and female to female 'adapters' are only a few inches long and hidden in my very large tool box that even my most obnoxious SIL knows not to touch.
My wife has five sisters and when they get in the decorating frenzy I find somewhere else to be. But inevitably I get that call to 'come make it work'. I can explain and tell them every rule there is, but when they start making the rounds to each others houses with all the new and exciting xmas stuff and lose their minds while climbing ladders and stringing millions of light and extension cords between the roof and ground sisters crews, it still happens.
So the apapters only get used for xmas lights and I try to be smarter than what I'm playing with. So far so good.
When an extended power outage occurs I would never backfeed an entire house. We will use our RV/farm generators to direct power appliances like fridges, heaters, and TVs with Dish. But that doesn't happen very often around here, thank goodness.
So the warnings are great, the outlaw of products is fine, but new protect yourself against yourself laws will never be effective for products like these that anyone can make.
Next thing you know they will ban replacement ends, connectors, and electrical tape
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Old 09-24-2022, 03:17 AM   #39
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My suicide cord is hanging in the garage. Haven’t thought much about it, but this thread has inspired me to change the receptacle I use to back feed the house to a recessed male type and change the suicide cord to a regular extension cord. Of course, the recessed male still presents some risk but it’s the best I can do with my panels. I guess a locking cover on the receptacle could be done; now where’s the key in the dark and rain and snow LOL.
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Old 09-24-2022, 03:08 PM   #40
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My suicide cord is hanging in the garage. Haven’t thought much about it, but this thread has inspired me to change the receptacle I use to back feed the house to a recessed male type and change the suicide cord to a regular extension cord. Of course, the recessed male still presents some risk but it’s the best I can do with my panels. I guess a locking cover on the receptacle could be done; now where’s the key in the dark and rain and snow LOL.
Most Desktop computers and Monitors use "recessed male" power ports no power until a power chord is plugged in and then you have no access to the prongs.
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