K&N Air Filter vs MPG...is this a fluke?

[Young Travelers]

I run the K&N in the jeep and my 07 Cummins, and atv's
I have seen increases in mpg in both rigs, but the air temp, time of the year, how you drive, driving conditions et all make a huge difference in overall Mpg performance. as far as dust into the engine.. My old 97 cummins, I ran K&N in it for over 100K and absolutely no dust, dirt problems with it. Just keep it cleaned. i sold the truck with 262K on it running strong and no problems...The jeep grand cherokee, I seen an increase of 2.75 Mpg after the computer re-adjusted. I now average 21.25 to 21.45 mpg on the hwy and its got the 4.7 v-8. consumer reports avg online if you look is about 16-17 mpg...
the 07 cummins, I put the filter in on the way home from buying the truck. on the hwy I avg 22.3 mpg at 62mpg, (1750 rpm& cruise on) it seems to do best there. I cant complain about that for the cost of diesel. I measure on mileage gone. / fillup total gallons. No warranty problems either with the dealer. the atv's also had an increase of range from 76 miles pper tank to 88. not too bad of increase.
each person has their experiences and opinion, heres mine and .02

[hoody]

was just wondering if anyone has any comments on rockwoods. i just ordered a 8314bss ultra light.

[TulsaSteve]

Another think to check for mileage.. Trans fluid. Pain to check since you have to drive around, park on a level surface, then keep it running, maybe shift through all the gears and back again.. Stand on one foot while turning the cruise control on and off 6 times in a clockwise motion.. Crazy procedures of most vehicles I've owned. So it never gets checked...

My Tahoe's mileage was dropping, sure enough trans fluid was down a bit and I was slipping.

[rockwood06]

Originally Posted by TulsaSteve

Another think to check for mileage.. Trans fluid. Pain to check since you have to drive around, park on a level surface, then keep it running, maybe shift through all the gears and back again.. Stand on one foot while turning the cruise control on and off 6 times in a clockwise motion.. Crazy procedures of most vehicles I've owned. So it never gets checked...

My Tahoe's mileage was dropping, sure enough trans fluid was down a bit and I was slipping.

If you go back to page #3 not too long ago I posted a thread on "anything and everything about motor oil" there are test results not only on motor oil but air filters as well along with other info.

[Ace_Clark]

In my experience, the expense having a 55.00 K/N air filter in my 6.9l 1986 F-250 and paying for the cleaning kit, I'd rather just go buy a new one for 10 bucks and be done with it. My air filter shrank and I just gave up. Not worth having to keep up with the cleaning and locating that cleaning kit. Not to mention, they never get you enough of the fluids to do a through job.

[PumaPro]

I put one in my S10 once upon a time. Didn't notice much of a mileage gain, but throttle response got better.

[Bulldog66]

Not to rain on any parades...

But, I just have to add this little tidbit of info.

Let's just presume that the K&N does add some additional gains in performance, be them minimal, but gains none the less. We'll use even a 5 year period for arguments sake.

Let's say in that 5 years you save 100.00 to 300.00 on your fuel bill. You also get to pass a few non K&N users on the interstate up that grade pulling a simular weight. Sounds good so far, yes?

Well, here's the bubble burster. That filter, coated in it's protective lubricant to catch those particles of dust, road grime, etc. is not saturating that MAF, TPC and MAP sensors. I don't have the exact numbers in front of me because I am not at the shop, but I promise you that the cost of one MAF sensor will negate any gains or pride you obtained from the filter.

I can't even begin to count how many of those filters I have had my customers throw in the trash. Just get a good quality filter and stick with it. Adding the cold air intake is infact a good idea, just stay away from K&N.

Just giving a real world opinion from someone who see's this on a daily basis.

Cheers.

[rthrbelsewhere]

Just a suggestion:

Amsoil makes a damn good dry air filter and that's the one i've used. I hear from other CTD drivers that S&B makes one as well.

Here's some pics of mine after 17000 miles on it. The intake i installed is an "ice box" made here in Colorado (north of Trinidad to be specific) with a the blue "cool hose". I ran this filter for 17000 miles so far and there is no visual dust on the intake section of the box and i can wipe a white cloth on the inside of the cool hose and it's still as clean as the day i installed it brand new.

http://picasaweb.google.com/rthrbels...eat=directlink

Thanks
Joe

[NWJeeper]

Originally Posted by Bulldog66

.....Well, here's the bubble burster. That filter, coated in it's protective lubricant to catch those particles of dust, road grime, etc. is not saturating that MAF, TPC and MAP sensors. I don't have the exact numbers in front of me because I am not at the shop, but I promise you that the cost of one MAF sensor will negate any gains or pride you obtained from the filter

Hmmm, In my 20 years or so of using K&N filters on everything I own I have NEVER heard of them causing problems with sensors, this is a first.

I would love to see some actual scientific facts and data to support this point of view not just "opinion" If in fact this were true I think there would have been a lot more of a stink put up about them on the web. In fact there are many different filters out there just like the K&N and I have never read or heard anything to support this idea.

However one has to be realistic. They do not increase mileage and for the most part no one I know that uses them can even feel any difference to the throttle response either. I don't expect any kind of performance increases with them but instead I use them for the re-usability issue, especially with my Jeep where I can end up cleaning out the filter every other week due to the harsh environments I use it in. In 11 years of wheelin' my Jeep with a K&N I have never had a sensor go bad.

As for the "cold air intakes" I have my own take on those....You can't find "cold air" under the hood on any vehicle. And if you are going to put one on you should open up the exhaust too or your wasting your money.

[rthrbelsewhere]

I believe the point that bulldog66 was trying to make is this:

over lubercate your "wet" filter (K&N, S&B, AFE, AEM...) - you're screwed (excess oil gets pulled into the intake and goes into whatever is on the other end of the filter, be it a sensor, a turbo, into your intake manifold, etc. and then add some dust to it and you have gunk...yummmmmy.)

not enough oil - you're still screwed (the oil is used on a "wet" filter to capture the dust and smaller particles that the actual material of the filter wasn't designed to capture.)

These two scenarios are even more important to remember for those that run a vehicle with a turbo that requires more cfm then a typical jeep lets say. A clogged up filter due to bad maintenance habits will lead to a collapse of your air filter probably when you needed it to work the most. So those that want the extra insurance and piece of mind, don't buy wet filters. Go dry and if you're still worried about it, get a prefilter to go over it, but the prefilter is for the bigger stuff, a good dry filter is for the little stuff.

...And yes, you're right, exhaust upgrades should be made at the same time you decide to do a "cold air intake" because, lets face it, what goes in, must come out. But to clarify something, the term "cold air intake" means more then just making the attempt to bring in cooler air (which can be done if built and mounted correctly) but it also creates a larger opening at the filter and allows a larger volume of air to flow into the intake when needed/wanted. My particular box is not a true "cold air" intake, but it does shield the incoming air from the heat of the engine and it pulls air from an area in front of the truck where there's less restriction then the fender mount that was on there. If it was a true "cold air" intake box, i'd have to add ice whenever i drove it.

cheers

So Radio, to answer your question, you would probably benefit the most from an open air intake combined with the K&N filter if your looking for more mileage or more power. But for now a new clean better flowing air filter would probably offer some benefits to your stock setup since it is also less restrictive then the stock OEM filter that was installed previously. Just keep an eye on it and keep up the maintenance on it like you would the oil and oil filter you put in the truck and everything should be fine. You may also notice that you will be running a few degrees cooler then normal with the new filter when you're towing, which is more of a benefit then the mileage in my opinion. I hope that you are gaining that much in mileage, anything to help the current economic situation is a blessing in disguise.

[rekop]

So far so good with my K&N filter,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[brittsnbirds]

Radio-

Yesterday I ordered the K&N "FIPK" (Fuel injection performance kit) and a Superchip 2865 to flash the program on my '03 Chevy, 5.3. I pull a '09 Wildwood 27 footer and get around 8 in 3rd. The Chevy will not pull it in OD (unless it's a downhill pull). Plus the tranny run's too hot from the shifting. My goal is to get it up to 10mpg and ultimately pull in OD. So we will see. Hopefully it will be here this weekend.

My nephew is pretty knowledgeable about this stuff and recommended this setup. Will let you know the results.

Pat

[kz08h5]

I just happened on to this post so I thought I would add a little to it. I used to be a project manager for an auto parts company that made the electronic controls used on engines and transmissions. One of the key items these controllers do is keep a constant air to fuel ratio. That is called the stoichiometric mixture. They do this for various reasons but is usually the optimum air to fuel ratio for general performance. With today's engines and controls changing to a high flow filter should not make a difference. There is a feedback loop created with the oxygen sensor so that the controller keeps the air to fuel ratio at a constant 14.7 to 1. Most of the controllers have a learning mode that helps them to preform this operation. This is why, in some cases, you might see an increase at first. Without this closed loop feedback, if the air flow into the engine were increased without any changes in fuel quantity the engine would run lean. If the engine were to be under strain, like towing a trailer, it would run hot and could result in damage like a burned piston(s). I hope this helps.

[jd-ford-hd]

I too have used K&N filters on several vehicles and did not see increases worth mentioning in MPG. The biggest mistake I see people make when calculating MPG is inconsistent filling of the tank. I have seen buddies of mine, when fueling, jerk the nozzle the first or second time it kicks off! This is especially true with the diesel owners that claim "she gets 25MPG whether I'm hooked to a trailer or not"..!! Different nozzle makes, foaming of the fuel, speed of the station's pump, out of level station lot, etc. etc. are variables that make accurate MPGs impossible to obtain. The ONLY way to get accurate results is to stand there and trickle the fuel in to top off. You MUST have crystal clear fuel, with no foam, STANDING, not slowly receding, in the fuel filler neck. It might take 15 or 20 minutes with diesel, a little less time with gasoline and do this for the initial fill-up and each fill-up afterwards. Also check your odometer by the mile markers on the interstate to see if you lose or gain miles. Tire replacement or factory errors may have you getting bad mileage numbers to work with. Had to put my $00.02 in!!!

[flyrotor]

I priced out both having a cold air intake (K&N), and having my exhaust opened up on my suburban, the exhaust is around $375, the CAI around $435. I am not looking for increased MPG per say, but rather freeing up the airflow, both in and out, my vehicle is a 2005 Suburban 1/2 ton, 5.3 liter engine.

There seems to be some contraversy with K&N, my take (after reading this thread) is mostly how you maintain the K&N.

My question directly, is it worth ~$800? Will I get $800 longer life out of my truck, or should I keep the money and just drive my truck as is?

[EdJunior]

Well, I don't think you'll get enough of a performance boost to make such a "night and day" difference, but who knows for sure. I will say, I've had my K&N in my truck since I got it with 30,000 miles on it. It is approaching 125,000 now, and still runs like a new truck. No noticeable performance or mpg differences, but it does sound cool when you tromp the gas. And I haven't had to buy a new filter since I've had it. You'll see all kinds of controversy over this filter, and all manner of opinions. It'll never change.

[Palomino_G210]

Have a look at this for a filter comaprision.

air filter test

It is hard to find fault with what he did.

An engine rebuild cost a lot more than you can save by using reusable air filters.

[wakamicamper]

I had a 2001 F150 Supercrew that I installed the K & N filter on, and saw the same improvement in gas mileage of 2.5 mpg on the first fill. And I saw an increase in power. I never did install the air intake.
I now have a 2009 GMC 2500HD with the Duramax and had thought about installing the K & N filter to it. Upon doing some research in various Diesel forums, I have been told not to do so unless I want to do some serious damage to my engine.

According to the Dieselplace the K & N filter can let in unwanted dust particles that can seriously damage the turbocharger vanes on the Duramax and a study at the site found there would be no increase in mileage.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=117009

The study also found that the best air filter was the one that came with the truck. I guess that because a gas engine has less pressure than a diesel, the air filter upgrade works better.

[Palomino_G210]

Another question I have not seen asked is "

How much have you spent on cleaner and lubricant for the life of your K&N

and

what was the environmental impact of your using this cleaner. Was it properly disposed of???"

[StonewallGene]

I just put one on my F350 7.3 Diesel we were getting about 8 miles now it up to 10 pulling TT. We did the whole kit. We have been in Fla for a few weeks now we see that we went from 14 to 16 mpg. I would like now to do the 4" exhaust. Has anyone gone to the 4" exhaust???