New Forest River Service Policy

[twoclaws]

As a consumer Keep an open mind when reading the policy. Perhaps this just the start of Customer and Forest River protection. There are RV dealers who don t tend to warranty issues when off the street repairs bring in $120 an hour as opposed to warranty work or use certified techs One would think the selling price has built in $$$ to help with warranty issues. Auto repairs are done on a customary and usual charge based on a number of hours to complete the repair according to industry standards.
I had two different dealers allow 2 of my RVs sit with out being touched - one for 7 weeks and Forest River HAD sent the parts and the other for 2 months untouched. Having visited the GM 3 times and was told well we had to take care of this person or that person's issues (off the street). For 2 months? The service mgr didn't even know the RV was on the lot for 2 months- I was then told I could wait until their best man was available or they could put someone else on it. What did I want them to do? I emailed the franchise CEO and the repairs were done in 3 days On the first RV I pulled it off the lot and took it to the Rally and they had the repair done in3 to 4 hours in a "grass field" plus did more to the RV. These RVs were purchased from 2 well very known dealers. One warrenty issue addressed 3 times - even after I told them what the solution was - but it was easier to swap parts with the same inferior part, twice. Told them to research it and where. Just easier to swap and bill Forest River. Finally contacted rep at Forest River and issue was resolved via my suggestion/solution
And YET there are dealers who may feel punished because they do it right in a timely manner- They believe in customer service.

[nvydvrdude]

You're right twoclaws, there are two sides to every story and I know there are some schmuck dealers out there. So far the couple of items of warranty work I've had done at my local FR dealer has gone smoothly, and I didn't buy from them. Right now my rig is in for a slide cable adjustment and slide seal repair, due to a poor placement of a window. My service rep in Panama City, FL has had nothing but good things to say about dealing with FR on this issue. So here's hoping nothing changes.

[oldwrench]

Originally Posted by twoclaws

as a consumer keep an open mind when reading the policy. Perhaps this just the start of customer and forest river protection. There are rv dealers who don t tend to warranty issues when off the street repairs bring in $120 an hour as opposed to warranty work or use certified techs one would think the selling price has built in $$$ to help with warranty issues. Auto repairs are done on a customary and usual charge based on a number of hours to complete the repair according to industry standards.
I had two different dealers allow 2 of my rvs sit with out being touched - one for 7 weeks and forest river had sent the parts and the other for 2 months untouched. Having visited the gm 3 times and was told well we had to take care of this person or that person's issues (off the street). For 2 months? The service mgr didn't even know the rv was on the lot for 2 months- i was then told i could wait until their best man was available or they could put someone else on it. What did i want them to do? I emailed the franchise ceo and the repairs were done in 3 days on the first rv i pulled it off the lot and took it to the rally and they had the repair done in3 to 4 hours in a "grass field" plus did more to the rv. These rvs were purchased from 2 well very known dealers. One warrenty issue addressed 3 times - even after i told them what the solution was - but it was easier to swap parts with the same inferior part, twice. Told them to research it and where. Just easier to swap and bill forest river. Finally contacted rep at forest river and issue was resolved via my suggestion/solution
and yet there are dealers who may feel punished because they do it right in a timely manner- they believe in customer service.

wish i had something good to say,mine was in shop for over 2 months and repairs were not completed as needed, some problems were dealer [ they gave up, now they are to busy to do more] f/r dynamax is at fault from the start their quality control is lacking, build as many and as fast as possible let the customer and dealer work it out, after having 10 motor homes in my life i am the least happy with this one, this is my last, motels after this.

[asquared]

Duplicate threads on this topic have been merged by the site team.

[stephndudb]

Wow. Interesting timing. We're on our way to the factory in late June to get a leak in our slide fixed. This after our dealer wouldn't return either phone calls or emails about the problem. I finally called the factory and asked them to handle it since I have no faith in the dealer anymore. So far, I'm pleased with their responsiveness.

[jaymemiller]

As a result, service techs often address what appears to be the symptom without being able to take time to diagnose the true cause, one dealer explained

Yep, fr don't want a band aid

[B and B]

Originally Posted by Wobbles

I just let out a sigh and wondered if I would snore tonight. Sounds like we all agree that the industry needs to charge us more money for a better product.



As long as buyers want the bubble gum features versus an rv with good bones underneath it, we will continue to suffer. Heck, I bet if you could get a CARFAX report on any used rv you were looking at, the banks and insurance companies would make an rv out of reach of the majority.



The concept of a rv type CARFAX report should make the rv industry take pause. lol...

We went with SOB. No silly bubblegum features like surround sound, but a very good 2.1 with a powered subwoofer, ductless quiet AC systems, no combination locks, no schwintech slides, no water filters, no plastic outdoor TV brackets etc

I agree well built basics and no fancy stuff, that is what we have all be it nice full hardwood stiles and nice finishes.

This could be good for FR and weed out the bad dealers.

[stinglejet]

I agree with some of this my best friend just got a new trailer from general Rv it took them 9 days to get the trailer in to look at it then another 4 weeks to fix it then when my friend got it back we had to fix over half the stuff they checked off as fixed and they left the trailer dirty like a heard of pigs had been through it

[SidecarFlip]

Originally Posted by stinglejet

I agree with some of this my best friend just got a new trailer from general Rv it took them 9 days to get the trailer in to look at it then another 4 weeks to fix it then when my friend got it back we had to fix over half the stuff they checked off as fixed and they left the trailer dirty like a heard of pigs had been through it

General operates under the same business principles as CW....

One thing I've found is, the smaller the dealer, the better attention to details and the better after the sale service.

I would never even consider buying from a large retailer (least with an RV) and if possible, buy local. Long distance romances usually end in grief.

[bclemens]

While I hesitate to call this story "Fake News" since that term is over used...it does seem to fit the bill here. This is not the first time that RV Daily Report has sensationalized a story or taken the response from a couple of people and claimed it to be "gospel". Even the title of the story taints the reader. Instead of "FR implements new service policy to improve communication with customers, or "Some dealers unsettled by New FR Service policy to reduce out of service times". Noooo. It has to be negative, because we all love a good fire.

Yes, several dealers were not happy about the request...but only because they didn't understand the intent. They were solely focused on the word "indemnification", where basically they are absolved of all legal liability. They felt that we were threatening them to withhold indemnification, which we do in about 99% of any legal issue. The PRIMARY goal of this change in service policy, is simply communication. In many cases, a dealer will take a unit in for service. They will have this unit in for weeks, or months. By the time we hear about it, it is a disgruntled customer that is so upset they can't see straight and our options are limited. I can't speak for every other division, but normally when I look into these things, the dealer has dropped the ball, forgot to order parts or just didn't know how to repair it, but never called. Now I know that there are cases where we drop that ball and part of that policy was to make sure that WE TOO are held accountable. So we gave them a hotline number that if for any reason they are not getting a timely response from the division, they can escalate that to a corporate team. You can look back on several of my posts where a customer complains "My dealer has been waiting on parts for weeks from FR" and when I look it up it was just the dealer covering for their mistake and no parts were ever ordered. BUT...at least then WE can prod the dealer. If we don't know, we can't do anything about it. This policy change was made specifically to address this issue...FR not hearing anything until it was too late to do anything about it. And YES....if a dealer has a customer unit for 90 days and never worked on it, then YES, they should be held accountable if it goes legal, they should not be able to just "wipe their hands of it". But if they call us and we drop the ball, it is our issue and ours alone.

We know that it is not uncommon for a repair to require more than 7 days to complete and we are not demanding that the unit be repaired in 7 days....but the dealer also can't wait 30 days before they notify us of an issue.

I think most people on here understand this is not a bad thing, but instead of focusing on the "good affects" it will have on the consumer, RV Daily Report wants to focus on the negative response from the dealer. It's that same irresponsible reporting that keeps me from viewing that site.

[CaptnJohn]

I did not view it as negative on either FR or dealers. Everyone hates change. Few like being held accountable as well. It will work out better for both parties and customers. Hopefully other manufacturers follow.

[m35a2]

Seems like a good thing to me, especially after reading bclemens' post.

It looks like FR is making best effort to get their customer satisfaction house in order. That's good for all of us.

[Steeljag]

I received the letter from FR after our recent purchase, and read it to be a positive message!

[KatanaPilot]

Originally Posted by m35a2

Seems like a good thing to me, especially after reading bclemens' post.

It looks like FR is making best effort to get their customer satisfaction house in order. That's good for all of us.

I think it's great if FR starts holding the dealers accountable for providing quality service. Who is going to hold FR accountable for providing quality products to the dealers?

[bclemens]

Thus the hotline for dealers. There is already an owner relations number for retail customers. All we can do is keep taking steps in the right direction.

[sgtlm17]

Originally Posted by KatanaPilot

I think it's great if FR starts holding the dealers accountable for providing quality service. Who is going to hold FR accountable for providing quality products to the dealers?

The consumer

[oldwrench]

Originally Posted by katanapilot

i think it's great if fr starts holding the dealers accountable for providing quality service. Who is going to hold fr accountable for providing quality products to the dealers?

i agree 100 per cent. We as the customer must hold f/r accountable. As long as they have been in th r/v business they should have all their ducks in a row. There dealer techs lack proper training, and caring. Before retiring at my job required hours and hours of factory training every year.

[KatanaPilot]

Originally Posted by sgtlm17

The consumer

I hope you are right. Unfortunately, I see time and again, folks on this forum talking about all the issues they have or have had, the months or years it took to get resolved (if it does), the trip(s) to the factory for massive repairs - and then they talk about how wonderful the manufacturer is and how they wouldn't own anything else!

Yes, I am skeptical and obviously in the minority. I don't think the manufacturers will change unless and until the economy tanks and/or someone comes along and produces a high quality MH/TT with high quality components at a competitive price point. Given the lack of real competition at either the manufacturer or component level, I just don't see that happening.

[SidecarFlip]

Originally Posted by bclemens

While I hesitate to call this story "Fake News" since that term is over used...it does seem to fit the bill here. This is not the first time that RV Daily Report has sensationalized a story or taken the response from a couple of people and claimed it to be "gospel". Even the title of the story taints the reader. Instead of "FR implements new service policy to improve communication with customers, or "Some dealers unsettled by New FR Service policy to reduce out of service times". Noooo. It has to be negative, because we all love a good fire.

Yes, several dealers were not happy about the request...but only because they didn't understand the intent. They were solely focused on the word "indemnification", where basically they are absolved of all legal liability. They felt that we were threatening them to withhold indemnification, which we do in about 99% of any legal issue. The PRIMARY goal of this change in service policy, is simply communication. In many cases, a dealer will take a unit in for service. They will have this unit in for weeks, or months. By the time we hear about it, it is a disgruntled customer that is so upset they can't see straight and our options are limited. I can't speak for every other division, but normally when I look into these things, the dealer has dropped the ball, forgot to order parts or just didn't know how to repair it, but never called. Now I know that there are cases where we drop that ball and part of that policy was to make sure that WE TOO are held accountable. So we gave them a hotline number that if for any reason they are not getting a timely response from the division, they can escalate that to a corporate team. You can look back on several of my posts where a customer complains "My dealer has been waiting on parts for weeks from FR" and when I look it up it was just the dealer covering for their mistake and no parts were ever ordered. BUT...at least then WE can prod the dealer. If we don't know, we can't do anything about it. This policy change was made specifically to address this issue...FR not hearing anything until it was too late to do anything about it. And YES....if a dealer has a customer unit for 90 days and never worked on it, then YES, they should be held accountable if it goes legal, they should not be able to just "wipe their hands of it". But if they call us and we drop the ball, it is our issue and ours alone.

We know that it is not uncommon for a repair to require more than 7 days to complete and we are not demanding that the unit be repaired in 7 days....but the dealer also can't wait 30 days before they notify us of an issue.

I think most people on here understand this is not a bad thing, but instead of focusing on the "good affects" it will have on the consumer, RV Daily Report wants to focus on the negative response from the dealer. It's that same irresponsible reporting that keeps me from viewing that site.

My comment to your comment simply is...

If you (representing the builder) not attempting to single you out, but you are here so I will..lol

You as the builder, if you paid more attention to the build quality and less about getting them OTD in a short of time frame as possible...there would not be as many issues on the buyer's end (I read about things on here that are just plain irresponsible, like never hitting the wood underneath a panel because the screws were installed in the wrong place, or not enough screws in door hinges (they take 3 in each blade, not one or two) or TV's that fall off the wall because if insufficient mounting screws or windows that leak because the frame is installed upside down or doors that don't latch properly because the striker plate was installed crooked or ceiling lights that fall out because the screws aren't hitting anything but air....or how about the Lippert 'flex' frames and cracking welds....

The list goes on and on and all of that should be addressed when the unit is built, not after it leaves the factory and gets delivered to the selling retail dealer. No wonder dealers are swamped.

If I was a dealer I'd be pretty unhappy about the lack of attention to detail when the unit was built. Sure, the dealer is in it to make money, I'm a retail dealer myself but not in the RV business and in my business, I (as a dealer) won't accept second rate merchandise, it goes back and gets replaced before it ever goes to my customer. My suppliers know that I will not accept second rate merchandise for sale, which is neither here nor there but in your industry, it's apparent to me that FR wants to pass the quality buck onto the dealers to deal with and that is not right, nor is it sound business practice.

I have to say that my FR unit has been trouble free. I've had to 'fix' a few things but looking at it as a whole, items like screws that fasten to nothing and crooked hinges, I have and repaired myself. I should not have had to, if, there was any sort of quality manufacturing instilled into the employees and if the company as a whole was interested in turning out a quality product instead of shoving them out the door and passing the buck on to the dealers. Not every buyer has the skill or knowledge to repair poor manufacturing. I do and I have.

That not right and I'm glad I'm not in the RV business because if I was, I would not represent FR products.

Your industry needs to get it's act together and quit buck passing. The buck should stop with you as the builder through continuous quality improvement. I don't see that.

I see lip service but no tangible, action.

Another example if you want to call it that is FR's 'shine bay'. With continuous quality improvement instilled in each and every team member (employee), the 'shine bay' method works but only for minor imperfections. Every employee must be a team member. Kind of obvious to me that FR's ''shine bay' is lip service because the end quality of the delivered product is not improving. What does the 'shine bay' do? Wipe off the dust?

Finally, the 'Amish' craftsmanship'. Great selling line, but in reality, the Amish that work in your factories are nothing more than a clock number putting in their time and getting paid, for the most part. Some are real craftsmen, most aren't. I have had a lot of dealings with the Amish in my previous job. I've seen first hand what kind of 'craftsmen' most are. They might be in their home wood shops making trinkets and artsy-fartsy stuff for gentiles but in your plants they are nothing more than an employee.

Candidly, I'm happy with my unit but I do expect to buy another in the future and at this juncture, unless your quality level's improve, it won't be a Warren Buffett company I purchase from.

FR, in general has a long way to go to achieve a consistent level of quality commensurate to the price point of many of your units.

The quality is out there. It's just not in your products today at least in my perspective.

I can understand why there are so many posters on here with issues. Not all those issues are build related, some are of the end users fault through inexperience or ignorance but many issues could be addressed at the factory level and they aren't because of the 'shove it out the door' attitude.

Putting that burden on an independent dealer is unfair IMO. Maybe you at FR need to address opening 'company stores' instead, especially if the quality level;s stay where they are presently.

Finally, I realize that any RV is a luxury item, not a necessity. Notwithstanding, luxury or not, quality is inherent with a good product and quality sells product. Like a watch, When you say the name Rolex, it's regarded as a quality timepiece and commands a price commensurate with it's quality. Rolex is a luxury item (I own one), not an necessity but I'm proud to be able to afford the quality. You should take a tip from that credo.

Just my 2 cents.

[oldwrench]

Originally Posted by sidecarflip

my comment to your comment simply is...

If you (representing the builder) not attempting to single you out, but you are here so i will..lol

you as the builder, if you paid more attention to the build quality and less about getting them otd in a short of time frame as possible...there would not be as many issues on the buyer's end (i read about things on here that are just plain irresponsible, like never hitting the wood underneath a panel because the screws were installed in the wrong place, or not enough screws in door hinges (they take 3 in each blade, not one or two) or tv's that fall off the wall because if insufficient mounting screws or windows that leak because the frame is installed upside down or doors that don't latch properly because the striker plate was installed crooked or ceiling lights that fall out because the screws aren't hitting anything but air....or how about the lippert 'flex' frames and cracking welds....

The list goes on and on and all of that should be addressed when the unit is built, not after it leaves the factory and gets delivered to the selling retail dealer. No wonder dealers are swamped.

If i was a dealer i'd be pretty unhappy about the lack of attention to detail when the unit was built. Sure, the dealer is in it to make money, i'm a retail dealer myself but not in the rv business and in my business, i (as a dealer) won't accept second rate merchandise, it goes back and gets replaced before it ever goes to my customer. My suppliers know that i will not accept second rate merchandise for sale, which is neither here nor there but in your industry, it's apparent to me that fr wants to pass the quality buck onto the dealers to deal with and that is not right, nor is it sound business practice.

I have to say that my fr unit has been trouble free. I've had to 'fix' a few things but looking at it as a whole, items like screws that fasten to nothing and crooked hinges, i have and repaired myself. I should not have had to, if, there was any sort of quality manufacturing instilled into the employees and if the company as a whole was interested in turning out a quality product instead of shoving them out the door and passing the buck on to the dealers. Not every buyer has the skill or knowledge to repair poor manufacturing. I do and i have.

That not right and i'm glad i'm not in the rv business because if i was, i would not represent fr products.

Your industry needs to get it's act together and quit buck passing. The buck should stop with you as the builder through continuous quality improvement. I don't see that.

I see lip service but no tangible, action.

Another example if you want to call it that is fr's 'shine bay'. With continuous quality improvement instilled in each and every team member (employee), the 'shine bay' method works but only for minor imperfections. Every employee must be a team member. Kind of obvious to me that fr's ''shine bay' is lip service because the end quality of the delivered product is not improving. What does the 'shine bay' do? Wipe off the dust?

Finally, the 'amish' craftsmanship'. Great selling line, but in reality, the amish that work in your factories are nothing more than a clock number putting in their time and getting paid, for the most part. Some are real craftsmen, most aren't. I have had a lot of dealings with the amish in my previous job. I've seen first hand what kind of 'craftsmen' most are. They might be in their home wood shops making trinkets and artsy-fartsy stuff for gentiles but in your plants they are nothing more than an employee.

Candidly, i'm happy with my unit but i do expect to buy another in the future and at this juncture, unless your quality level's improve, it won't be a warren buffett company i purchase from.

Fr, in general has a long way to go to achieve a consistent level of quality commensurate to the price point of many of your units.

The quality is out there. It's just not in your products today at least in my perspective.

I can understand why there are so many posters on here with issues. Not all those issues are build related, some are of the end users fault through inexperience or ignorance but many issues could be addressed at the factory level and they aren't because of the 'shove it out the door' attitude.

Putting that burden on an independent dealer is unfair imo. Maybe you at fr need to address opening 'company stores' instead, especially if the quality level;s stay where they are presently.

Finally, i realize that any rv is a luxury item, not a necessity. Notwithstanding, luxury or not, quality is inherent with a good product and quality sells product. Like a watch, when you say the name rolex, it's regarded as a quality timepiece and commands a price commensurate with it's quality. Rolex is a luxury item (i own one), not an necessity but i'm proud to be able to afford the quality. You should take a tip from that credo.

Just my 2 cents.

you have hit the nail right on the head, i have one would like to give it back. I get a lot of lip service from f/r and dealer service the only way to beat these guys is buy something different. Thank you for response maybe it will save someone from a lot of heartbreak