The RV industry death spiral

[rockfordroo]

Originally Posted by northstar1960

.

X2 . seems a good discussion going on with lots of info for new buyers .

IF they're willing to wade through 19 pages. A lot of people here don't even bother to read all of a post that's only a page or 2 long. Then they post the same thing someone else said in Post #2.

[lesptr]

Wow
(Same as post #2)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Taranwanderer]

Interesting thread, I do appreciate the author's observations, but if you think the industry is in a death spiral you are just kidding yourself. I really believe that the best thing you can do for yourself as an RV owner is to cultivate a healthy relationship with a good, local dealer. I know there are tons of examples of people driving across country to buy from RVWholesale or RVDirect to save a few hundred or thousand dollars on purchase price, but the money you're saving will be offset by the goodwill you are not creating with a reputable dealer, and it will come back to bite you in the @ss come service, warranty, repair, and maintenance time. If those cheap options get put out of business, it may just force the industry to ship better products...

[northstar1960]

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

IF they're willing to wade through 19 pages. A lot of people here don't even bother to read all of a post that's only a page or 2 long. Then they post the same thing someone else said in Post #2.

that's the same in just about every thread on here . should all threads be limited to 2 pages just because some won't read them or others repeat the same things ? many times things get repeated because your answering someone on page 2 and hadn't gotten to page 6 yet to see it was posted by someone else . i post to posts I do not read the whole thread first and then post . and some things need repeated

[northstar1960]

Originally Posted by Taranwanderer

Interesting thread, I do appreciate the author's observations, but if you think the industry is in a death spiral you are just kidding yourself. I really believe that the best thing you can do for yourself as an RV owner is to cultivate a healthy relationship with a good, local dealer. I know there are tons of examples of people driving across country to buy from RVWholesale or RVDirect to save a few hundred or thousand dollars on purchase price, but the money you're saving will be offset by the goodwill you are not creating with a reputable dealer, and it will come back to bite you in the @ss come service, warranty, repair, and maintenance time. If those cheap options get put out of business, it may just force the industry to ship better products...

the chances of getting a good dealer is slim to none . people need to relay on themselves and not let themselves be at the mercy of dealers . . saving 6000.bucks is quite a bit . 600 bucks not worth the drive but you still end up with a unit and a dealer that most likely won't help as much as the ones 1000 miles away

[BandJCarm]

Originally Posted by Taranwanderer

Interesting thread, I do appreciate the author's observations, but if you think the industry is in a death spiral you are just kidding yourself. I really believe that the best thing you can do for yourself as an RV owner is to cultivate a healthy relationship with a good, local dealer. I know there are tons of examples of people driving across country to buy from RVWholesale or RVDirect to save a few hundred or thousand dollars on purchase price, but the money you're saving will be offset by the goodwill you are not creating with a reputable dealer, and it will come back to bite you in the @ss come service, warranty, repair, and maintenance time. If those cheap options get put out of business, it may just force the industry to ship better products...

Many cases that's true. It's a worthy thought.

BUT........ there are other situations.

We have a local dealer here in town that is great at service. Local guy owns it. Every customer likes them. They are understandably backed up for service. But their retail prices are exorbitant. I saved not a few hundred.......but $29,000 by buying at a wholesale dealer (with whom I had a great buying experience). That's a lot of money. I now have a unit that, there is NO WAY I could afford to buy or own this at the price the local dealer quoted. I'd have to buy a much cheaper unit. But I got more than I should be able to afford by buying 700 miles away.

In addition, there are 2 other companies within 20 miles of here that only sell a few used units.....their main business is repair. I can always go there and get work done.

My warranty is already at 3 months. In 9 months it's not even a consideration any more. I can always take my unit in locally to get it serviced/fixed/repaired and just pay for it, like everyone else.......and then I'm not at the end of their line anymore.

In the meantime, I got an extended warranty with a deal that's supposed to come to me to fix anything. We'll see how that works, and I might drop that.......but it added $12 to my payments so I'm trying it.

And I can afford to pay for a ton of repairs for $29,000.

As for repeating posts, it just takes a minute to read. Some posts are frustrating, and some folks get frustrated faster than others. Some can't deal with disagreements or 'controversy'. But some are learning a great deal from most of these threads, and if some of it is redundant, so be it. And if some of it is redundant, so be it.

Heck, some of it might even be redundant.

LOL

[Taranwanderer]

I should add to my above post that the caveat is finding a reputable dealer locally. I guess I'm fortunate to have my "local" dealer (roughly 45 miles away,) that's fantastic on service. There are a few dealers closer to me, but they didn't carry the product line that I wanted (XLR,) even though they had other FR lines, and my dealer also didn't carry it but was willing to go the extra mile to find it for me. And as I said, great service. So I'm happy with my dealer, but I know many are not. And luckily, I can fix or install 80% of things, so my trips to the dealer are now infrequent--once that original "punch list" was taken care of.

[DreiHunde]

Originally Posted by northstar1960

that's the same in just about every thread on here . should all threads be limited to 2 pages just because some won't read them or others repeat the same things ? many times things get repeated because your answering someone on page 2 and hadn't gotten to page 6 yet to see it was posted by someone else . i post to posts I do not read the whole thread first and then post . and some things need repeated

Yep!
and if we start including repeat threads in that same thought, then the site would only have about 18 threads 2 pages long!

[rockfordroo]

Originally Posted by northstar1960

that's the same in just about every thread on here . should all threads be limited to 2 pages just because some won't read them or others repeat the same things ? many times things get repeated because your answering someone on page 2 and hadn't gotten to page 6 yet to see it was posted by someone else . i post to posts I do not read the whole thread first and then post . and some things need repeated

My point wasn't to limit to 2 pages. My point was that leaving this thread open after 18 pages because there's "lots of info for new buyers," is not a good reason, because many (most?) people don't bother to go back and read 18 pages of posts to glean out that information, nor do they look to see if what they're planning to post may have already been said. Don't disagree that some things need to be repeated, but sometimes these threads just seem to have run their course, with everybody repeating stuff because they don't bother to read what came before.

[BamaBob]

Originally Posted by KatanaPilot

Which probably means you are retired and have the time to drive anywhere anytime you want..

Nope, still working - until DEC 2017 at least

Originally Posted by KatanaPilot

It sounds like you plan and look forward to going to the FROG fests. I have neither the time nor the inclination to do that. .

Yep. A LOT of our friends attend these rallies and since they are from all over the USA & Canada, it makes for a convenient way to meet up with them and visit. Were you ever to try it, you might find out it is a great way to make life-long friends!

Originally Posted by KatanaPilot

Many of us are not full time. The RV campground is not our destination. The National Park is. The campground is merely a place to park and setup our RV so we can go hiking, exploring, etc. The RV is our hotel on wheels..

Good for you! We like doing that as well -- and many of our friends are not fulltime as well; this is a conscious choice we made this year in preparation for retirement and exploring the USA - you may choose this lifestyle change as well when you get closer to retirement; who knows, we certainly did not 10 years ago

Originally Posted by KatanaPilot

A failure to you is merely an inconvenience - to others like me it can ruin the trip. Sounds like the OP in the post "A cry for help" was not a full-timer - he had multiple failures of his RV on his trip a long way from home. So it's not acceptable in my book to have so many issues on such a new MH.

Au contraire, a failure for a fulltimer can be catastrophic & require relocation to a hotel at significant out of pocket cost.

And, a lot of folks have tried to help the OP - myself included. I feel badly that he/she has had these problems and surely want to see them fixed quickly, which is why I gave him factory contacts.

Originally Posted by KatanaPilot

The "bring it back to the factory" isn't a valid solution. This reminds of an old saying from a former defense contractor I used to work for - "We never have time to do it right, but we always have time to do it over" .

*shrug* it isn't? Why? Alternate solutions are weeks-long wait at a uncaring RV dealership?

I like the fact that a email to the Diesel Division gets a almost immediate reply. The folks at Forest River corporate really do care -- after all if they did not they would not have repeat buyers (or be #1 in the industry as they are now).

Now, before you call me a "FR Glee Club Member" consider this: We (DW & I) have been RV'ers for over 20 years, had plant tours of just about every RV manufacturer out there (Foretravel is on our bucket list ) and spoke to 100'S if not 1,000's of SOB RV owner's. Bottom line, unless you are willing to put out at or over $1M on a custom motorhome, all RVs have problems, but in our experience, Forest River has fewer problems by far than other RV manufacturers AND is much more motivated and inclined to fix those issues to the customer's satisfaction.

[NMWildcat]

Originally Posted by Taranwanderer

I should add to my above post that the caveat is finding a reputable dealer locally. I guess I'm fortunate to have my "local" dealer (roughly 45 miles away,) that's fantastic on service. There are a few dealers closer to me, but they didn't carry the product line that I wanted (XLR,) even though they had other FR lines, and my dealer also didn't carry it but was willing to go the extra mile to find it for me. And as I said, great service. So I'm happy with my dealer, but I know many are not. And luckily, I can fix or install 80% of things, so my trips to the dealer are now infrequent--once that original "punch list" was taken care of.

Glad to hear you are happy with your local dealer. That is refreshing. I don't care how good the locals are at sales/service, if we can save almost $10k (like we did with our current rig) by driving 800 miles we will do that. We have an independent RV service that we take our rig to that can do warranty work on most brands. We use him or fix it ourselves. So far manufacturers have been good about sending us parts when we need them.

We try to avoid dealerships like the plague. They are the black holes of RV repair. Take your rig to them and it disappears for months. Every dealer we've seen is just swamped so I have a hard time fathoming this so-called 'Death Spiral'

[BamaBob]

Originally Posted by BandJCarm

I never made it past the first 6 paragraphs where he said "I had no experience but I was editor of the biggest RV magazine" and "Magazines have to be public relations vehicles, unlike newspapers".

Never got past that, sorry.

I, too, am amazed at how many industry pundits, when asked "What RV do you own" tell you "I don't own one". Well, have you ever owned one? "Nope".

Amazing.

When we toured both the Thor and Jayco factories and spoke to their senior design engineers, we were flabbergasted to find out they had been working in the industry for 20+ years and have never spent one night in any type of RV! (thus obviously did not own one!) They design RVs?!?

[BamaBob]

Originally Posted by northstar1960

Seems people travel to further dealerships to save thousands not hundreds
I brought mine from a dealer 1300 miles away , why because of the huge savings and the fact i was visiting my folks a few hundred miles from this dealer . as far as warranty goes All i've needed to do for the few warranty items i've had was call the dealer and they had the parts to me .i prefer to install myself then i know it's done right . if you can't do the work then your at the mercy of the dealer

Also, if you are interested in a particular model (as we were) you have to travel. There are essentially 2 good dealerships for Berkshire: MSHRV and total Value RV (no WAY would we go to Lazy Days...too many bad reports).

So it was a no-brainer to go to Total Value (Love their tag line "Buy 'em where they are made" ) Glad we did - these guys are FANTASTIC!

[BamaBob]

Originally Posted by Taranwanderer

<SNIP>. I really believe that the best thing you can do for yourself as an RV owner is to cultivate a healthy relationship with a good, local dealer.
<SNIP>

Well said!! Could not agree more! I believe this is critical to enjoying your RV lifestyle!

Observation: we were at the dealership a few weeks ago to have a SMI Air Force 1 installed on our TOAD. While there, a customer came in and proceeded to curse and yell at the service department manager about his RV. Now, I understand frustration, and I have had a few sharp comments with service techs myself, but this was over the top. What kind of a future relationship can this customer expect with the service department?

Moral: Folks, please try to remember that the service tech did not personally break your RV. Treating them with kindness and a problem solving attitude (versus a "it's your fault attitude")will go a long way in your relationship building with the dealership.

BTW, I talked to the service manager after the ranting customer left and he told me that this was the norm rather than the exception

[rockfordroo]

Originally Posted by BamaBob

Well said!! Could not agree more! I believe this is critical to enjoying your RV lifestyle!

Observation: we were at the dealership a few weeks ago to have a SMI Air Force 1 installed on our TOAD. While there, a customer came in and proceeded to curse and yell at the service department manager about his RV. Now, I understand frustration, and I have had a few sharp comments with service techs myself, but this was over the top. What kind of a future relationship can this customer expect with the service department?

Moral: Folks, please try to remember that the service tech did not personally break your RV. Treating them with kindness and a problem solving attitude (versus a "it's your fault attitude")will go a long way in your relationship building with the dealership.

BTW, I talked to the service manager after the ranting customer left and he told me that this was the norm rather than the exception

"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo

[BamaBob]

Originally Posted by northstar1960

the chances of getting a good dealer is slim to none . people need to relay on themselves and not let themselves be at the mercy of dealers . . saving 6000.bucks is quite a bit . 600 bucks not worth the drive but you still end up with a unit and a dealer that most likely won't help as much as the ones 1000 miles away

Really?

Here are three that cover just about ever Forest River brand. As far as we are concerned they are honest, ethical and customer focused! So, if you need to travel 1,300 miles to buy a RV from a good dealership, consider these folks:

Berkshire/Charleston/Legacy Motorhomes: Total Value RV, Elkhart, IN

Sunseeker Class C/Cardinal/Riverstone/Wildcat/Wolf Pup & other tow-behinds: Johnston RV, Cullman & Decatur, AL (they also offer a lifetime warranty on their FR units)

Coachman/R-Pod/Surveyor/Forester/FR3: Bankston Motorhomes, AL & TN

[NMWildcat]

Originally Posted by BamaBob

Bob & Anne-Marie [BamaBob & 6 Actual]
| 2017 Berkshire XLT 43A with Ultrasteer Tag | Blue Ox Avail + KarGard II |
| SMI AF-1 Air Brake | 2016 Jeep Cherokee Overland TOAD | Pedego Bikes |
Nights Camped: 2013 - 24 • 2014 - 42 • 2015 - 56 • Jul 2016 - Fulltime •

Congrats on the Fulltime Bob!!! And thanks for all the upbeat posts!

[BamaBob]

Originally Posted by NMWildcat

Congrats on the Fulltime Bob!!! And thanks for all the upbeat posts!

Thanks Scott...and remember we are going to Nellie's when we roll through Las Cruces in 2018