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Old 03-24-2014, 12:28 PM   #1
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Military Campgrounds

I thought only military and DOD civilians could use military campgrounds but I am wrong, civilians can use them too. I was at Ft Fisher military campground this past weekend and the place was full of campers but only one had ever been in the military, that was the one that signed for all the spots. A good Sam club that had a one member of the military had signed for all the spots. This does not seem right to me
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Old 03-24-2014, 12:40 PM   #2
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most military campsites will allow a retired military person to sponsor someone that is not:
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Old 03-24-2014, 12:50 PM   #3
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Well all thats doing is taking up the spots that are suppoused to go to the military. I am sure the campground down the road would have liked to have had those campers and it didn't. There is only 19 spots and 10 of those were taken up this weekend by cililians. It does not seem right to me, my tax dollars going to pay for military campgrounds so cililians can stay cheap and have never served
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Old 03-24-2014, 12:52 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by spock123 View Post
I thought only military and DOD civilians could use military campgrounds but I am wrong, civilians can use them too. I was at Ft Fisher military campground this past weekend and the place was full of campers but only one had ever been in the military, that was the one that signed for all the spots. A good Sam club that had a one member of the military had signed for all the spots. This does not seem right to me
LKicklight is correct. I'm retired Federal,not military,but a retired military friend sponsored us at the U.S.A.F.Academy FamCamp.

Probably need to check each FAmCamps rules for specific rules.
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Old 03-24-2014, 01:01 PM   #5
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I have been told that if you have access to a Military Installation you can use the fam camp
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Old 03-24-2014, 01:15 PM   #6
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I do not care who you are if you are not retired military or active military or DOD civilain it should not be done. So what you are saying is its alright for civilians to hog all the spots and the military receation to pay for your spot. I may not can do anything about it but I am going to try, my Senator is up for election this year and I can call her. 10 spots at one time just does not seem right, and they are cheaper than the private campground down the road
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Old 03-24-2014, 01:32 PM   #7
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I Hear you Spock - I am Former AF and current DOD Civilian. I can use any Military FAMCAMP as long as I am still active. After I retire I cannot (which I don't understand, but those are the rules).

Anyway...this may have been some sort of special situation because I try to stay at FAMCAMPS whenever possible and I have never seen huge groups of civilians camping at these camps - except in one case: In Pensacola there were 5 or 6 RVers camped over the weekend with no military connections but had been signed on by a retired Captain. Why? They were part of a RV club that had come down to attent the funeral of a fellow RV'er who was being buried in the national Military Cemetary on Pensacola NAS.

Might I make a suggestion? A friendly chat with the Camp Host asking about what was going on may clear things up. If not, it will certainly provide you with specific information that you can pass on to your senator.

Oh and Spock, thank you so very much for your service to our country!
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Old 03-24-2014, 01:40 PM   #8
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I Hear you Spock - I am Former AF and current DOD Civilian. I can use any Military FAMCAMP as long as I am still active. After I retire I cannot (which I don't understand, but those are the rules).

Anyway...this may have been some sort of special situation because I try to stay at FAMCAMPS whenever possible and I have never seen huge groups of civilians camping at these camps - except in one case: In Pensacola there were 5 or 6 RVers camped over the weekend with no military connections but had been signed on by a retired Captain. Why? They were part of a RV club that had come down to attent the funeral of a fellow RV'er who was being buried in the national Military Cemetary on Pensacola NAS.

Might I make a suggestion? A friendly chat with the Camp Host asking about what was going on may clear things up. If not, it will certainly provide you with specific information that you can pass on to your senator.

Oh and Spock, thank you so very much for your service to our country!
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Old 03-24-2014, 01:46 PM   #9
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There was nothing special going on the people just wanted to go to the beach, it costs $25 a night at Ft Fisher and about $50 at the private campground or you could always stay at the NC state park with no hookups
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Old 03-24-2014, 01:49 PM   #10
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There was nothing special going on the people just wanted to go to the beach, it costs $25 a night at Ft Fisher and about $50 at the private campground or you could always stay at the NC state park with no hookups
How did they get on post/base without a CAC or ID card?
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Old 03-24-2014, 01:56 PM   #11
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Our good friend Lou,AKA Herk 7769, has posted some sites here that explain eligibility requirements and other rules regarding FAmCamps.

Do a search or wait for Lou to sign in.
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Old 03-24-2014, 02:27 PM   #12
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Its not on a real base, the NCNG have a base there and I have seen the Navy Seals train there at night, there is no gate guard. Its Seymour Johnson AF base recreation center, SJAF base is in Goldsboro,NC and Ft Fisher is down from Carolina Beach or close to Wilmington,NC
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Old 03-24-2014, 03:03 PM   #13
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The basic rules are set by Military regulations, however some bases don't follow them, each base sets number of days allowed, if they accept resverations etc. Then there is the good old boy rules that are not posted anywhere. We have stayed at many FAMCAMPS across the country and some are better then other by following rules. Bottomline, MWR wants the FAMCAMP full most of the times and will break the rules for the money.
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Old 03-24-2014, 03:38 PM   #14
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Well its not right, besides MWR is not in the money making buisness. I may not can do anything about it but I intend to make someone mad. I think I can call enough people to get someone mad, anyway I don't have alot to do on a cold day, its not right that people like me earned those benefits and civilians can take advantage of it.
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Old 03-24-2014, 03:44 PM   #15
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When in the service, now retired, 7 of those year was recreation services position and MWR does make money since appropriated funds were cut many years ago. Most people now working in MWR are non-approprated positions and when golf courses, FAMCAMPS, bowling alleys don't make money, they close.
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Old 03-24-2014, 03:48 PM   #16
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When in the service, now retired, 7 of those year was recreation services position and MWR does make money since appropriated funds were cut many years ago. Most people now working in MWR are non-approprated positions and when golf courses, FAMCAMPS, bowling alleys don't make money, they close.
Does "MWR" still mean "Morale Welfare Recreation" like it did when I was in?
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Old 03-24-2014, 03:50 PM   #17
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Yes, MWR means Morale Welfare & Recreation.
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Old 03-24-2014, 03:59 PM   #18
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If you are retired military, you can use the Famcamps. Others do include some federal and of course the active duty and guard/reserve. And we can sign in "non-military" to camp (I did this for my family for a wedding in the local area). However, for the purpose of a Good Sam Club "get-together", I do feel this is not right. But as was mentioned, a lot of the Famcamps are run almost like a franchise deal. Each one is different. And the different services (AF, Army, Navy, CG) are all a little different also. It would be interesting to see what you are able to do. I would not want to see the sign-in of non-military taken away, but I would like to see a little more control in cases like you mention.
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Old 03-24-2014, 04:02 PM   #19
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I'm not judging your frustration but just providing another perspective.

According to the DOD Instruction, a member with MWR privileges can sponsor guests into the facility, with limitations set by the installation commander. Each Service mimics this instruction in their own particular fashion. So, presuming no one was speeding, your "beef" will be with the installation commander's use policy. As a former commander, we answered these kinds of Congressional Inquiries several times a month and nothing changed as a result.

Personally, I think there are bigger issues to tackle and when some time has elapsed, this one won't seem worth calling your Congressman. *break break * Abraham Lincoln had a unique way of handling his frustration. When he got really mad at someone, he would write them a scathing letter. He would take out all his frustration in that letter. Then he would put it in his drawer and wait until the next morning. In almost every case, he never sent the letter. (From the book Lincoln on Leadership).

Reference:
U.S. Military Campgrounds and RV Parks - Authorized Users of Military Campgrounds

I'm briefly staying in a FamCamp right now and I can say I have never seen a situation where I thought unauthorized users were in the RV camps.

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Old 03-24-2014, 04:04 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by spock123 View Post
Well its not right, besides MWR is not in the money making buisness. I may not can do anything about it but I intend to make someone mad. I think I can call enough people to get someone mad, anyway I don't have alot to do on a cold day, its not right that people like me earned those benefits and civilians can take advantage of it.


On the other hand my brother in arms....

Still working for the Army in a somewhat senior position, I get to sit in on a lot of the budgetary briefings and....well we are not the size of force we were back in the '80 (or '90s for that matter!) Base Alignment and Closures (BRAC), force drawdowns, budget cuts and lack of appropriations are making for lean times - not just big Army (Navy/AF/Marines/CG) but IMCOM (Installation Command) as well.

Lots of hard choices are being made - there is even a plan on the Hill (Congress) to close Commissaries. Secretary Hagel has his 2014 budget proposal to draw the force down to pre-WWII (Yes, World War II!) levels.
So this will have a huge impact all the Morale, Welfare & Recreation (MWR) facilities.

Not sure if you are aware of this Spock, but MWR is part of the Non-Appropriated Fund (NAF) activities on a installation. NAF is funded solely by generated income. (Unlike Appropriated Funds – Appropriated by Congress and used to pay for Service Member & DOD Civilian wages, new equipment, and physical plant .

This translates into a two-edge cut for benefits: Less Active Duty and DOD Civilian users of these facilities means less income for these MWR Activities. Less generated income means less funds for maintenance, repair and improvements. This is why some military facilities are allowing a limited number of local civilians to “Buy” memberships to their golf courses – it’s either do this or close the course (to the detriment of the Service Members and authorized DOD Civilians)

Even the Appropriated fund facilities are feeling the Sequestration pinch – here in Huntsville Alabama on Redstone Arsenal, Post housing – which used to be available only for military members – is now advertising that DOD Civilians can lease quarters on post as well.

It’s a tight budget out there battle buddy and benefits are not just eroding but disappearing. Not for lack of trying either – the bank account is just empty

Hope this explains what is going on a bit better to you.
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