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Old 03-21-2020, 07:30 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by TitanMike View Post
...In short, when people are traveling away from "home" and encounter snow it's best to pretend you are a total beginner.
I won't be pretending. <smile>
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Old 03-21-2020, 07:48 PM   #42
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I am sure there is a major difference between driving just a truck vs towing with a truck,
especially with a 6% grade.
Thanks! That's good to know.

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Old 03-21-2020, 11:00 PM   #43
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Totally agree. With ABS, you use steady pressure on the brakes. Having the vehicle in low gear negates the effectiveness of ABS.
Not only that, lower gears often cause the tires to just slide when you back off the gas and there goes your steering even if you haven't stepped on your brakes.

Control is only possible with turning tires on slick roads which includes not only snow, but ice, rain, loose dirt, etc.
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Old 03-21-2020, 11:12 PM   #44
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Most nylon type chains are for emergency use only. Don't know about legality. We used to live in CO, in fact, lived on Lookout Mountain above Golden. Drove down down the mountain to 6th, then to I25, then south to Inverness Business Park every day, snowy or not. Have towed all over the northern states and never recall required (or even seeing) chains on trailers. Only drive tires. But, I don't know laws for every state. I always carry two sets of cable chains for our 4WD.
Best rule is when driving in snow and ice when towing an RV, only drive as far as you need to, to be able to pull over and stop. And if you are already stopped, STAY PUT
For years it was common practice for truck drivers to add at least one "drag chain" to the rear axle of their trailer, sometimes two, when descending steep grades in the mountains.

What the smart old truck drivers did to keep everything under control has now been incorporated into many state's laws, mostly states with mountain passes that not only have steep grades but tight(er) corners as well.

Here in WA it's not unusual to see our main passes closed during snowy weather due to trucks spinning out. When I lived in CO it was fairly regular too. States have in recent years said "enough" and as usual, when people aren't smart enough to do things on their own, laws are passed to force them.

I just looked up WA's chain law and here's a clip from it:
Quote:
For vehicle combinations including trailers or semi-trailers; one tire on the last axle of the last trailer or semi-trailer, must be chained. If the trailer or semi-trailer has tandem rear axles, the chained tire may be on either of the last two axles.
Since this applies to vehicles over 10,000 gross and specifically includes "Trailers" plan on chaining at least one tire on the trailer if driving in "chains required" conditions here in WA.

Also, even though all wheel/4wd vehicles don't have to chain up to proceed they still have to carry at least ONE set of chains for their vehicle.

All new regulation that went into effect Oct 2014 so it's relatively new, especially to "seasoned veterans".
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Old 03-22-2020, 09:21 AM   #45
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Glad you made it down safely. Nowhere in your post do I read where you MANUALLY applied the trailer brakes (GENTLY) to keep "the tail from wagging the dog". A gentle, manual application of trailer brakes can help to keep the trailer BEHIND the tow vehicle thus negating the trailer's greater weight. You don't "ride" the trailer brakes. Short, quick manual applications should be all that's needed to stay in control.
Yes good point. That is exactly what I did. I have a lever in my RV dash that I was pumping along with pumping
My foot on the break. I had lots of time (seemed like an hour) to experiment with what seemed to work the best. My trailer breaks are synced with the truck, but manually “pumping” the trailer breaks while pumping the TV breaks seemed to keep the rig straight.
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Old 03-22-2020, 09:25 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by TitanMike View Post
Not only that, lower gears often cause the tires to just slide when you back off the gas and there goes your steering even if you haven't stepped on your brakes.

Control is only possible with turning tires on slick roads which includes not only snow, but ice, rain, loose dirt, etc.
Yup. While sliding down the mt at 25-30mph, I was afraid to shift to a lower gear for this very fact. I waited until I was able to slow to 10-15 before I downshifted.
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Old 03-22-2020, 12:01 PM   #47
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Yup. While sliding down the mt at 25-30mph, I was afraid to shift to a lower gear for this very fact. I waited until I was able to slow to 10-15 before I downshifted.
You didn't even want to downshift at that point either. You want it in a higher gear to eliminate any tire slipping due to being in too low of a gear. You want your brakes with ABS to slow your vehicle.
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Old 03-22-2020, 02:06 PM   #48
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May I suggest, since your concern for the safety of others outweighed the concern of the inconvenience of calling ahead and cancelling or of financial loss, that you are now nominated for “Darwin Award of the Year - Forest River Forums” edition.

We encountered a similar situation just last week in a sudden intense snow storm.

With AWD, we gleefully traveled like gods over the steep curvy mountain roads, but there is no limit to the stupidity ignorance and selfishness of others on the same road.

You should be ashamed of your actions placing others at mortal risk, and see a psychiatrist why you chose to place others in harms way over sacrificing yourself.

Inexcusable behavior.

Read the story below, and visualize your life had traffic stopped in front of you, and the lives of others you so selfishly placed in jeopardy.
=================================
3/16/2020 Snow Crash Dodge Durango GT II4 AWD

This Monday was a glorious day filled with white fluffy snow, on a isolated (paved) highway six miles west of Pine Mountain Club, CA.
See link:
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0eX0...MNbkw#Maricopa

The 2020 Dodge Durango GT is a champion in snow and glare ice, it’s 6000lbs of invincible in deep snow and crusty ice of an unplowed road.
See link:
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0WIk...MdtZQ#Maricopa

Not so invincible when stupidity meets the real world.
See link:
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0T2i...y5YAQ#Maricopa

Damage to the GT was obvious, see sticks in window.
See link:
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0-Hk...3hY1Cb4U9exZxA

Waiting for a winch out, I pondered if any damage “would buff right out”. Close inspection revealed that no buffing at all was required?

Driving very slowly when the Honda, parked sideways in the middle of the highway - on a steep downhill curve, entered my field of view giving me 4 secs to react before sliding off the road.

Turning left of the stricken Honda meant changing all of the Durangos’ GTs’ right heading momentum into a left turn that would hurl us straight into the surrounding forest and a cliff thousands of feet tall.

Staying in my current (right) lane with hard braking would have sent 6000lbs of SUV into the Hondas’ grill.

Switched on the inner off-road driver inside me from hard learned lessons via thousands hours of off-road travel as a USFS OHV volunteer, and tried to squeeze around the right side on the shoulder.

Missing the Honda by less than 12 inches I spun the front tires full left and floored the throttle in the only chance to avoid a serious collision.

The long dirt trenches dug by the tires imprinted into the muddy clay next to the beached SUV are far wider than the tires width - indicating the SUV attitude was sliding sideways under full power.

An impressive piloting effort, with help from an unseen force.

My best to the off-road gods that made this miraculous event happen.

And my sincerest plea to intoxicated marijuana smoking drivers, please refrain from imbibing until you get home.
================================================
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Old 03-22-2020, 03:24 PM   #49
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take a chill pill and learn how to post relevant pictures instead of links to albums filled with useless pictures...

people make mistakes and learn from them... thanks to OP for posting his own mistake so that others may learn from it
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Old 03-22-2020, 03:34 PM   #50
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repsolgamma

take a chill pill and learn how to post relevant pictures instead of links to albums filled with useless pictures...

people make mistakes and learn from them... thanks to OP for posting his own mistake
Agree

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Old 03-22-2020, 03:38 PM   #51
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We had the same experience. Never again . . . . .
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Old 03-22-2020, 06:19 PM   #52
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Repsolgamma

That’s just rude. As I would say to a child “just stop it”
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Old 03-22-2020, 10:02 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by repsolgamma View Post
May I suggest, since your concern for the safety of others outweighed the concern of the inconvenience of calling ahead and cancelling or of financial loss, that you are now nominated for “Darwin Award of the Year - Forest River Forums” edition.

We encountered a similar situation just last week in a sudden intense snow storm.

With AWD, we gleefully traveled like gods over the steep curvy mountain roads, but there is no limit to the stupidity ignorance and selfishness of others on the same road.

You should be ashamed of your actions placing others at mortal risk, and see a psychiatrist why you chose to place others in harms way over sacrificing yourself.

Inexcusable behavior.

Read the story below, and visualize your life had traffic stopped in front of you, and the lives of others you so selfishly placed in jeopardy.
=================================
3/16/2020 Snow Crash Dodge Durango GT II4 AWD

This Monday was a glorious day filled with white fluffy snow, on a isolated (paved) highway six miles west of Pine Mountain Club, CA.
See link:
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0eX0...MNbkw#Maricopa

The 2020 Dodge Durango GT is a champion in snow and glare ice, it’s 6000lbs of invincible in deep snow and crusty ice of an unplowed road.
See link:
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0WIk...MdtZQ#Maricopa

Not so invincible when stupidity meets the real world.
See link:
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0T2i...y5YAQ#Maricopa

Damage to the GT was obvious, see sticks in window.
See link:
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0-Hk...3hY1Cb4U9exZxA

Waiting for a winch out, I pondered if any damage “would buff right out”. Close inspection revealed that no buffing at all was required?

Driving very slowly when the Honda, parked sideways in the middle of the highway - on a steep downhill curve, entered my field of view giving me 4 secs to react before sliding off the road.

Turning left of the stricken Honda meant changing all of the Durangos’ GTs’ right heading momentum into a left turn that would hurl us straight into the surrounding forest and a cliff thousands of feet tall.

Staying in my current (right) lane with hard braking would have sent 6000lbs of SUV into the Hondas’ grill.

Switched on the inner off-road driver inside me from hard learned lessons via thousands hours of off-road travel as a USFS OHV volunteer, and tried to squeeze around the right side on the shoulder.

Missing the Honda by less than 12 inches I spun the front tires full left and floored the throttle in the only chance to avoid a serious collision.

The long dirt trenches dug by the tires imprinted into the muddy clay next to the beached SUV are far wider than the tires width - indicating the SUV attitude was sliding sideways under full power.

An impressive piloting effort, with help from an unseen force.

My best to the off-road gods that made this miraculous event happen.

And my sincerest plea to intoxicated marijuana smoking drivers, please refrain from imbibing until you get home.
================================================
Hey you’re right. We made a bad decision by not realizing the true road conditions. Where I live, they treat snowy roads with a solvent and I just assumed, by 10am this had been done.
By the time we got onto I70, it was too late to go back. We were starting down the mt.
The next 5 minutes I learned the best way to control my vehicle. Pump my trailer breaks a bit more than the truck breaks. This kept me straight.
We discussed what to do if there was stopped traffic and the solution was to turn into the side rail. Either side of the road.
I wrote this post to let other people know what can happen if a bad decision is made, and also for entertainment value.
I did hear about the horrific crash here a couple years ago and my thoughts are with the families involved.
I must have been doing something right to have a line of cars and trucks behind me. A trucker exited with me and gave me a thumbs up!
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Old 03-22-2020, 10:55 PM   #54
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Thanks Davidj for posting. Suspense novels are always better with a bit of humor. By the way, GOOD JOB.
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Old 03-22-2020, 11:56 PM   #55
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Hey you’re right. We made a bad decision by not realizing the true road conditions. Where I live, they treat snowy roads with a solvent and I just assumed, by 10am this had been done.
By the time we got onto I70, it was too late to go back. We were starting down the mt.
The next 5 minutes I learned the best way to control my vehicle. Pump my trailer breaks a bit more than the truck breaks. This kept me straight.
We discussed what to do if there was stopped traffic and the solution was to turn into the side rail. Either side of the road.
I wrote this post to let other people know what can happen if a bad decision is made, and also for entertainment value.
I did hear about the horrific crash here a couple years ago and my thoughts are with the families involved.
I must have been doing something right to have a line of cars and trucks behind me. A trucker exited with me and gave me a thumbs up!
I enjoyed your story. We all have driven in bad weather when we should have stayed put.

Thank You,
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Old 03-23-2020, 07:48 AM   #56
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Many of us in the ocean cruising community have a motto that says "I've got no schedule and I'm sticking to it!" It is serially reusable for 5th wheel campers. Glad you made it through, but I'm guessing most bad outcomes are a result of attempting to meet a schedule. We start looking for campside about 3PM and haven't had any problem finding one.
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Old 03-23-2020, 08:29 AM   #57
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Funny thing.

We immediately noticed that on ice and snow a four wheel pick up is near the bottom of well behaved on snow. Add to that a diesel engine to the front to further ruin the balance of the vehicle.

Squirrely on wet surfaces is being generous!

Even adding #300 of weight to the front of the bed only helps marginally.

Actually a well balanced car with even weight on all four wheels is the best vehicle to drive.

Add to that a trailer and minimal experience driving a truck and trailer is sort of scary!

One must plan ahead. I would not hesitate to contact the rv campground to tell them I will be in your parking lot a day early tonight because of the weather forecast.

I have to tell you rain always scares me. The stopping distance with 13 tons is a concern to me.
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Old 03-23-2020, 11:07 AM   #58
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Funny thing.

We immediately noticed that on ice and snow a four wheel pick up is near the bottom of well behaved on snow. Add to that a diesel engine to the front to further ruin the balance of the vehicle.

Squirrely on wet surfaces is being generous!

Even adding #300 of weight to the front of the bed only helps marginally.

Actually a well balanced car with even weight on all four wheels is the best vehicle to drive.

Add to that a trailer and minimal experience driving a truck and trailer is sort of scary!

One must plan ahead. I would not hesitate to contact the rv campground to tell them I will be in your parking lot a day early tonight because of the weather forecast.

I have to tell you rain always scares me. The stopping distance with 13 tons is a concern to me.
What you say is true but to add, many people don't really understand the role tires play on snow and ice. Many people, especially those with 4WD's purchase tires with aggressive tread patterns designed more for mud than snow. They may work OK in certain kinds of snow but the big problem is the ice that forms on the road under the snow. Often a tire that has more siping in it's tread design, designed for improved performance on wet pavement, will outperform the "mudders" on snowy roads, especially if there is a layer of compacted snow/ice on in the driving tracks.
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Old 03-23-2020, 11:52 AM   #59
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The Walmart where the OP stayed over night is a very highly congested area with a Home Depot, McDonalds, and other business crammed into a tiny valley less than a half mile wide and surrounded by higher terrain. The entrance ramp onto Interstate 70 is very long; once you enter the entrance ramp you cannot see the road conditions ahead as the Interstate is still 1/4 mile away and slightly uphill. Once you're on the entrance ramp there is no turning back.

The roads surrounding the Everygreen Walmart are maintained by the local county government who are typically very quick to clean local streets and make sure businesses in that part of the front range are accessable. Colorado interstates by contrast are maintained by the state (CDOT) and road conditions may be very different from where the OP originated.

Thanks for posting DavidJ and glad you made it down safely.
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Old 03-23-2020, 01:39 PM   #60
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Hopefully, DavidJ has gone out and purchased a set of chains! Between November and May, both of our vehicles(Both 4WD)have chains in them at all times since we own 2 homes in the mountains.
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