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Old 01-29-2016, 08:15 PM   #41
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In a nutshell, yes, you are protected unless you have a bad connection on either end that is overheating
Since my portable Progressive Industries PT30C is at the pedestal, the 50A adapter/receptacle would have to fail which would only damage the plugs/receptacle & trip the breaker prior to the PT30C. Everything after the PT30C should, in theory, be protected. That said, if lightning hits the cord going into my TT, or someone drives a shovel or stake through my 30A cord all bets are off...

EDIT - & yes I saw your thread on how you did the mod, so thanks Turbs! And, I also got my awning poles from you, which look/work great.
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Old 01-29-2016, 10:01 PM   #42
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Yes I remember your poles!
Didn't know if you saw my thread on the a/c.
I'm glad your happy with the poles.


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Old 01-29-2016, 10:08 PM   #43
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IMO a 30 amp receptacle is better. A 50 amp service provides about 25 amps on each leg. So if you are trying to use one leg of a 50 amp circuit you are not going to be able to run close to 30 amps. When I tried running with one leg of the 220 receptacle on my generator it kept kicking the breaker. When I ran off the 30 amp 110 receptacle there was no problem.
A 50 Amp service provides 50 amps on EACH leg. You get two separate 50 amp, 120V circuits. 50 amps x 120 volts = 6000 watts available on each leg. A 30 amp 120 volt circuit provides 3600 watts (power)
If your cord is a 30 amp rated cord, and you plug it into a 50 amp circuit breaker-protected receptacle, you are now in violation of the National Electrical Code - NEC requires conductors be protected at their rated capacity and at the source where they receive their power supply (the campground pedestal). The 30 amp breaker in your RV distribution panel is not protecting your power cord.
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Old 01-29-2016, 11:14 PM   #44
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A 50 Amp service provides 50 amps on EACH leg. You get two separate 50 amp, 120V circuits. 50 amps x 120 volts = 6000 watts available on each leg. A 30 amp 120 volt circuit provides 3600 watts (power)
If your cord is a 30 amp rated cord, and you plug it into a 50 amp circuit breaker-protected receptacle, you are now in violation of the National Electrical Code - NEC requires conductors be protected at their rated capacity and at the source where they receive their power supply (the campground pedestal). The 30 amp breaker in your RV distribution panel is not protecting your power cord.
I may be wrong but I don't think a 50 amp breaker will allow 50 amps through each leg, maybe a very brief surge current. For one thing the wire size of each leg will not support 50 amps each. A 50 amp breaker trips when 50 amps is exceeded, unless I am totally confused.
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Old 01-29-2016, 11:58 PM   #45
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I may be wrong but I don't think a 50 amp breaker will allow 50 amps through each leg, maybe a very brief surge current. For one thing the wire size of each leg will not support 50 amps each. A 50 amp breaker trips when 50 amps is exceeded, unless I am totally confused.
On a 50 amp service each leg is 50 amps for a total of 100 amps. If you are using a 30 amp cord on a 50 amp service and something did happen and your 30 amp breaker in your unit did not trip you could draw over the 30 amp limit that your cord is rated to carry. The 50 amp breaker is built to trip at 50 amps.
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Old 01-30-2016, 12:00 AM   #46
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we found that plugging in to the 50a box then using the 30a adapter, it we inadvertently used too much pwr causing breaker to pop, the main switch in our tt would go vice using a 30a box which then, we would have to go outside to main box and reset it. just saved us from going outside to reset switch vice staying inside tt to reset switch.
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Old 01-30-2016, 12:47 AM   #47
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I may be wrong but I don't think a 50 amp breaker will allow 50 amps through each leg, maybe a very brief surge current. For one thing the wire size of each leg will not support 50 amps each. A 50 amp breaker trips when 50 amps is exceeded, unless I am totally confused.
You're confusing a single 240V 50A circuit (as used in your sticks and bricks house) with two separate 120V 50A circuits (as used in a 50A RV). Both use a 50A two-pole circuit breaker. This is made by connecting two single pole 50A circuit breakers side-by-side, and tying the two single pole breaker handles together with a handle tie.

When used in the 120V 50A RV application, each single pole component sees different currents. The poles are in parallel and each is protecting a different circuit. (the neutral wire is used as a common for each of the 120V circuits. In this application, one side(pole) of the circuit breaker may be seeing 50A while the other side (pole) is seeing only 10A. But if either of the two sides sees greater than 50A, it trips. Because the sides are tied together by the handle tie, both 120V circuits are interrupted. (Two circuits)

In the 240V application, both poles see the same amperage because it's the same current flowing from the source to the load on one side that is now returning from the same load back to the current source through the other side of the breaker. (One circuit)
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Old 01-30-2016, 02:25 AM   #48
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we found that plugging in to the 50a box then using the 30a adapter, it we inadvertently used too much pwr causing breaker to pop, the main switch in our tt would go vice using a 30a box which then, we would have to go outside to main box and reset it. just saved us from going outside to reset switch vice staying inside tt to reset switch.
This is a great reason why you should not be using the 50 amp. If your 30 amp did not trip for some reason you would be overloading the electrical panel in your trailer. If the breaker did not trip you could have a fire in your trailer because the wire overheated.
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Old 01-30-2016, 07:46 AM   #49
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If your 30 amp did not trip for some reason you would be overloading the electrical panel in your trailer... [and] you could have a fire in your trailer because the wire overheated.
IMO it is more dangerous having a bad / worn 30A connection & breaker at the pedestal... We only camped a few times before getting a 50/30 adapter combined with the Progressive Industries PT30C surge protector because the worn 30A pedestal connections continued to overheat & melt my 30A plug. I had to clean my plug each time & eventually replaced it with a Camco plug.

IMO a hot 30A wire on the edge of catching on fire will trip the 50A breaker... We trust the main breakers in our homes & even a 200A breaker will trip when it experiences a short...
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Old 01-30-2016, 08:24 AM   #50
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You're mistaken Brewhedd. A properly wired "50A" service actually provides a total of 100A. Each hot leg is a separate 50A. 50A + 50A = 100A. A 50A ~ 30A adapter simply uses just one of the two 50A legs. The 30A circuit breaker will (should) trip, if the user tries to exceed 30A (use microwave + hair dryer + A/C simultaneously).
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Old 01-30-2016, 09:34 AM   #51
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A 30A circuit is designed to be used to 24A (80% of rated OCP) - A 50A circuit will have more available power; so if you're pushing the 30A to it's max, there may be an advantage to using the 50A..
No, this isn't true. If your unit is a 30 amp then you will have a 30 amp breaker on your converter. The breaker is designed to heat up and trio at 80% (24 amps). You can have 200 amps available and it won't matter if your 30 amp main breaker is working properly.

The only advantage I can see is if the 30 amp service is overloaded or if the plug is badly worn and needs replaced. This can be a problem with the 50 amp service also as 50 amp is becoming more popular.


One last thought, use a good surge protector!

Jim
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Old 01-30-2016, 10:10 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by The_Rhino View Post
Since my portable Progressive Industries PT30C is at the pedestal, the 50A adapter/receptacle would have to fail which would only damage the plugs/receptacle & trip the breaker prior to the PT30C. Everything after the PT30C should, in theory, be protected..... .
There is a serious misunderstanding concerning protection provided by the Progressive Industries devices. It is based on a misunderstanding of the term "surge". A surge is a transient higher-than-normal voltage. It is a short-term (less than a second or so) excursion of voltage. If you understand Ohm's Law, you recognize that a surge will cause an increase in circuit current (overcurrent - too much amperage).
A surge protector monitors VOLTAGE and opens the circuit if a high VOLTAGE is detected and does this in a very short period of time (Progressive says less than a nanosecond). It does not monitor circuit current.
If you overload a circuit by adding too many loads, if the circuit is shorted, if a load is shorted, there is no abnormal voltage (surge) but there is an overcurrent situation. A surge protector will not shut down the circuit in these cases. An overcurrent device (fuse or circuit breaker) monitors current directly and opens to shut down the circuit. These devices are very slow acting (a couple of seconds to minutes).
Progressive Industries literature only indicates that their devices protect against abnormal voltage situations and frequency excursions - they never make the claim that they act as approved overcurrent protection devices. (The term "overcurrent protection device" carries a very specific meaning.
If you overload a circuit and there is no accompanying voltage problem, the surge protector/EMS will not protect the circuit.
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Old 01-30-2016, 10:23 AM   #53
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DSQR, is there a commercially sold product you can add before your 30A power cord to protect from overcurrent?
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Old 01-30-2016, 10:24 AM   #54
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My comments on terminology. Although we all use electrical energy we often use improper terms.
Voltage is not power - it is the "pressure" which causes current to flow.
Amperes are not power - it is a flow of electrical energy
Watts is power - it is the product (multiply volts x amps)
We are not alone in this - a quote from PI's own literature "The EMS continuously monitors AC power. When AC power deviates below 104 volts or above 132 volts, the EMS automatically shuts down power to the RV." This tells you the EMS is monitoring voltage, not power. If the voltage is incorrect, the device shuts off power to the RV (no voltage or current).
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Old 01-30-2016, 10:44 AM   #55
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DSQR.
Now there is a voice of knowledge. One of my pet peeve is people using technology words improperly. The brilliant marketing sector has polluted our language with improper use of words to sell their products. I hated seeing the changing of an "outlet strip" to calling it a Surge Protector. I have people where I work ask me for a surge protector and when I give them a real plug in wall surge protector they look at me like I'm crazy. An outlet strip may have a surge protector built in but it should not be called a surge protector when it is an outlet strip. So calling a power management system a surge protector is just plain wrong and doesn't accurately describe what the device does.
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Old 01-30-2016, 10:45 AM   #56
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30 amps protects 10 gauge wire, which is the size wires in a 30 amp RV power cord. If plugged in to 50A recept. you are over your wire capacity plus your plug capacity on both ends of cord. I have done it, but not a good idea.
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Old 01-30-2016, 11:21 AM   #57
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There is a serious misunderstanding concerning protection provided by the Progressive Industries devices. It is based on a misunderstanding of the term "surge". A surge is a transient higher-than-normal voltage. It is a short-term (less than a second or so) excursion of voltage. If you understand Ohm's Law, you recognize that a surge will cause an increase in circuit current (overcurrent - too much amperage).
A surge protector monitors VOLTAGE and opens the circuit if a high VOLTAGE is detected and does this in a very short period of time (Progressive says less than a nanosecond). It does not monitor circuit current.
If you overload a circuit by adding too many loads, if the circuit is shorted, if a load is shorted, there is no abnormal voltage (surge) but there is an overcurrent situation. A surge protector will not shut down the circuit in these cases. An overcurrent device (fuse or circuit breaker) monitors current directly and opens to shut down the circuit. These devices are very slow acting (a couple of seconds to minutes).
Progressive Industries literature only indicates that their devices protect against abnormal voltage situations and frequency excursions - they never make the claim that they act as approved overcurrent protection devices. (The term "overcurrent protection device" carries a very specific meaning.
If you overload a circuit and there is no accompanying voltage problem, the surge protector/EMS will not protect the circuit.
I just looked at the list of errors my potable surge protector has and it appears the unit is primarily a voltage monitoring device. For an over currant problem the breaker on the converter will have to trip. but, figuring in ohms law, an over currant problem could be caused by a low voltage problem tripping the surge protector. PI covers everything pretty well. They don't miss any problem that I can think of off the top of my head. They make the best affordable device I have seen.

All the trailers I have had, 5 so far, have been 30 amp units. I carry a 50 to 30 amp converter plug but I have not had to use it yet. IMO it is like insurance, a waste of money till you need it, if you ever need it. When I rolled my Jeep and trailer I was glad I had it!

Jim
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Old 01-30-2016, 11:33 AM   #58
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30 amps protects 10 gauge wire, which is the size wires in a 30 amp RV power cord. If plugged in to 50A recept. you are over your wire capacity plus your plug capacity on both ends of cord. I have done it, but not a good idea.
Does anyone make a device that converts a 50 amp plug to a 30 amp plug with a 30 amp breaker? This would protect the cord.

Jim
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Old 01-30-2016, 12:00 PM   #59
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all you have to do is use it as a thirty, bigger wire never hurts, just reduce it down with the smaller breaker, and receptacle and waalla
Huh?? I want to know if anyone makes a 50 to 30 mp plug with 30 amp breaker in it. This would protect the 10 guage wiring used in a 30 amp power cord used on a 30 amp trailer. As was pointed out, using the plugs I have seen supply no protection to the power cord because you are plugging into a 50 amp breaker. Your reply makes no sense.to me.

Jim
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Old 01-30-2016, 03:10 PM   #60
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You're confusing a single 240V 50A circuit (as used in your sticks and bricks house) with two separate 120V 50A circuits (as used in a 50A RV). Both use a 50A two-pole circuit breaker. This is made by connecting two single pole 50A circuit breakers side-by-side, and tying the two single pole breaker handles together with a handle tie.
Thanks for the explanation.
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