towing with 1/2 ton truck

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by offroad

FIL ordered the truck new and was happy with the higher ratio towing a high profile 36' three slide 5'ver (he was patient).
Its now mildly modded, and meets my needs towing a similar length but much lighter TT just fine.

I was happy with mine with 3.55's also. Of course, I had a 5 speed manual. Not sure I'd have been happy with the 3.55's in a 4 speed auto.

[madmaxmutt]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

Once again, my statements clearly indicate that the MaxTow comes with 3.73's

Also, you clearly stated that the HD is the "lesser of the packages". That's not the case. It is basically an upgraded MaxTow.

I did find the fleet doc you are referring to in your last image. I wrongly assumed that since the HD package CLEARLY indicates "9.75 gear set" non HD's would have something different. Not sure why it's listed as an upgrade in that package when it isn't????

As far as my comment about the springs. I have compared my spring codes from my door jamb (145" SCrew, 4x4, 20" wheels) to a MaxTow SCrew and the codes were identical. UUGG, if I remember correctly. Another truck identical to mine except for 18" wheels had UUAA, if I remember correctly.

If you analyze your doc closely, you'll see that the FAWR doesn't change on any truck, regardless of MaxTow or HD package. The only change is when going from 145" to 157".

For the HD issue, you need to go back and read the post I was responding to and my response in context. You are confusing apples with oranges, which was exactly the point of that particular post. There is only one "HD" package on the marketing side. That is a "PAYLOAD" package. On the other hand, the "Heavy Duty Trailer Towing" AKA 535 (in marketing) that I was talking about is only listed on build sheets and is lesser than the Max Tow (AKA Load Leveling Towing Package). HD as a payload package is in addition to Max Tow (in every case I have seen).

You can clearly find a truck with 18s that will have lower rated springs. It is often hard to verify someone has a max tow unless you have the VIN. Adding the dumbo mirrors makes is look like one immediately.

There are a thousand trim, WB, bed, Cab combinations depicted in the document you posted. There is more to it than just the WB length. A SCAB is not the same as a SCREW even with the same bed and/or WB. You won't find a max tow, Screw, 157" WB with the same front springs as yours unless it was specially ordered that way.

[madmaxmutt]

OP

As you can tell from all the hijacking, it is complicated. That is true of each truck manufacturer. If you have a specific need, you are best to specifically purchase a truck for that need.

[RKR]

Originally Posted by f1100turbo

Man I'm so over popcorn!

Prime rib and a beer for this one.

Turbs

Nachos anybody ?


Sent from my high tech gadget

[Rockwoodjoe]

To MADMAXMUTT

I bought the STX model because the dealer wouldn't negotiate the price of the ecoboost model not available on STX. I didn't feel the $10,000 price difference was worth it. I am not convinced that a 3.5 L V6 is going to last as long as the 5.0 pulling 7,000 lbs. EPA mpg difference did not sway me in the least.

2103 Ford f-150 5.0 3.55
Rockwood 2703WS Emerald PKG

[madmaxmutt]

I think you made a great choice. I love the STX look. On my truck the EPA ratings don't mesh with my right foot anyway. Based on miles post on the ecoboost forum, I haven't seen an issue with the engine.

[Platokidd]

For years I towed with a 1/2 ton truck and did fine. Now I have 3/4 ton truck.
For me, the 3/4 ton was a huge improvement in towing experience. Not sure I would ever go back.

[MeepMeep]

Although I pulled a 9500lb Flagstaff Classic Ultra-lite with my RAM 1500 HEMI crew cab short bed for nearly two years without a problem, pulling a 9500 lb fiver, I was never quite comfortable "operating at the margins".....After upgrading to a RAM 3500 6.7 DRW, I found out how much more flexibility the added capacity provides - I just wish I'd been reading this forum before a bought the 1500....coulda saved a whole bunch of money

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by madmaxmutt

There are a thousand trim, WB, bed, Cab combinations depicted in the document you posted. There is more to it than just the WB length. A SCAB is not the same as a SCREW even with the same bed and/or WB. You won't find a max tow, Screw, 157" WB with the same front springs as yours unless it was specially ordered that way.

Why would I compare my 145" to a 157"? Once again, with a given wheelbase, cab and drivetrain, the FAWR is identical on regular and MaxTow. Even the rear axle rating is identical on 20" option trucks.

My original point that you contested was that you can easily take a non MaxTow truck and make it more capable than a MaxTow by adding higher load range tires, air bags and better shocks. It is clearly evident by examining the Ford documentation that there are NO structural differences in a MaxTow truck to justify the additional payload capacity other than a different rear spring on non 20" wheel trucks. Addition of air bags resolves that, plus offers a 3rd point of contact on the frame for weight bearing most would consider beneficial. All of the misconceptions I've heard such as the frame being heavier, different brakes, different steering ratio and so on can clearly be debunked through careful examination of the guide we've been referencing here:

https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas...0Raptor_SB.pdf

There are a few options that can justify the increase in TOWING capability: 1. 3.73 gears (IMHO this 4.8% increase <3.73 to 3.55> in ratio is negligible on a 6 speed trans.), 2. Reinforced hitch for, I think, 100 lbs. increase in TW rating (OP asked about 5W towing, so this makes no difference), and 3. 51 tube radiator versus 41 and .5 quart additional capacity.

In summation, a point can be argued (weakly, IMHO) that the MaxTow deserves it's additional tow rating of ~1800lbs, but no leg to stand on when attempting to justify additional payload.

[Rugged Brown]

Overheard at a campground near you

"Yes do it"
"No, don't"
"Yes do it"
"No, don't"
"Yes do it"
"No, don't"
"Yes do it"
"No, don't"

" what it comes down to is to follow the numbers on the door jamb"
"no it's not"

24 hours later

"Yes do it"
"No, don't"

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by Rugged Brown

Overheard at a campground near you

"Yes do it"
"No, don't"
"Yes do it"
"No, don't"
"Yes do it"
"No, don't"
"Yes do it"
"No, don't"

" what it comes down to is to follow the numbers on the door jamb"
"no it's not"

24 hours later

"Yes do it"
"No, don't"

Overheard at the campground I'm at:

"The MaxTow gives you about another 500lbs payload."
"What's beefed up on the MaxTow to increase payload?"
"Heavier frame, heavier springs, heavier shocks, bigger brakes, beefier rear axle..."
"That's funny, this Ford doc says those are all identical."
Crickets chirping during an awkward moment of silence.....




I guess I'm just not a "Because the sticker says so" kind of guy and like to question things.

[B and B]

I have a King Ranch with a 7650 GVWR Package. It is a Canadian special, the spring codes and payload match a Max tow and HD package including 2300 lbs loading on the invoice / build sheet.

In my campground in middle Michigan today there are 4 fords to 1 GM / Dodge. Also most of the fords are 10 years old including 1985 f350 celebrating its 30 th birthday/original owner .