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Old 09-24-2018, 03:26 PM   #1
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276hw vs 277hw vs 296hw

I am looking to dowgrade from a fifth wheel to a tent trailer. My kids (7, 4, 2) just want to stay inside and hang out in the fifth wheel so that has to go, other wise what is the point of camping.

So my question is what are the differences between these three tent trailers, and what made you choose between one over the others.

A dealer here has the 276hw for $15k out the door, and so I am leaning towards that. But i like the u shaped dinnette and it doesn't have that.
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Old 09-24-2018, 09:18 PM   #2
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Could the moderator please move this to the pop-up forum? The OP will have a lot easier time getting his questions answered there.

While I'm not familiar with the specific models, I have owned 2 pop-ups and 2 A-frames. The A-frames are not recommended for a family of 5 unless you are willing to make the kids sleep in a separate tent. Flagstaff and Rockwood pop-ups and A-frames are made on the same assembly line, and have the same floor plans, but different model numbers. Flagstaff and Rockwood use different colors for exterior, cabinets, upholstery, and trim, but are otherwise the same.

Flagstaff T Series | Roberts Sales - Denver, Colorado has a series of guides and articles and their evaluations of the Flagstaff pop-up models. Roberts only sells (and rents) pop-ups and A-frames, so they know their product well.

Personally, when I had a large family, I liked the couch across from the dinette layout, rather than the U-shaped dinette at the end. I didn't like anything that hinders access to the end bunks. And the couch across from the dinette increased the effective seating. But that's me.

The high wall models have higher counters - much more comfortable and a little more storage. The high walls also have a bigger fridge - a fridge that has some temperature control like bigger RVs. Disadvantage of the high walls is markedly decreased visibility rearwards while towing, significant increase in wind resistance while towing, and increased weight.

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2008 Hyundai Entourage minivan
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Old 09-24-2018, 10:30 PM   #3
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Old 09-25-2018, 05:26 AM   #4
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That will be quite a change. Well, we picked the hw277 due to the outside kitchen and the fact that we could access the fridge with the roof down. We really liked the u dinette in the slide but did miss a couch.

Cons were storage and the gray/black tanks are small) - they are each 12 gallons (but the tank capacity is the same across all the high walls). For extra storage we used the bathroom as a closet (hung a second wardrobe in it) so that helped alot therefore we never used the black tank, we used the campground bathhouse. And since the grey tank was so small, we used a blue waste tote as we usually generated a bit more than 12 gallons even on the weekend trips.

We had a lot of fun in the popup, had it 6 years before we moved on to a hybrid.
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Old 09-25-2018, 11:12 AM   #5
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I previously owned a HW276 and I now own a HW296. Both are great units. The u-dinette is great for seating but the table is small, even with just 4 people the table is undersized, whereas the the table in the HW276 could seat 6 comfortably. It would be nice if Forest river offered the option, personally I'd skip the u-dinette. The HW296 comes with the additional coffee table so 2 could eat at the sofa, but it's just one more thing to set up and it takes up a lot of room.
As for the HW277, the fridge is in the perfect spot access-wise, but to keep it running while traveling it would have to be on propane. Traveling with an open flame is never a good idea and illegal when pulling into a gas station to refill. Additionally, you lose the gaucho or the jack knife sofa depending on which model you choose. With kids you definitely want the extra seating, especially on rainy days. I suppose having an outside kitchen is nice, and it's all a matter of preference but having 2 stoves and 2 sinks on a pop up seems rather redundant. And you lose some valuable storage space. Again, it's all about personal preferences.
The biggest difference between the HW276 and the HW296 is cargo capacity and storage. I know I was pushing the weight limits on the old HW276 loaded with all the gear and a couple of bikes, the extra battery and a few mods.
So, with with the HW296, you get the 2 additional 2ft in length and it is roomier inside. You get more places to stow stuff, the extra exterior hatch is a great place to put the grill and table and a few other things. With 2 axles and 4 tires on the road it handles better and less prone to sway. The downside is that it's heavier and longer.
The HW276 is a great unit as well, I've taken many cross country trips with it, so if you're not planning on taking bikes, adding weight with mods or packing heavy it's a good choice as well.
Good luck.
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Old 09-25-2018, 02:37 PM   #6
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Tough question on two levels.

FIRST: This extreme degree of downsizing may be too much to handle. I'd urge you to consider a small "hard-side" or small hybrid. Why? Several reasons:
  • When closed, there's no "loading" the camper in advance of the trip. Other than the tiny entry way and mini-fridge, there's no space to add "stuff" as you prep for a trip. Opening then closing the PUP to load is a ton of work.
  • I already mentioned no space for stuff. Going from a Fiver to a PUP is like moving from a McMansion to a tiny-house. Every square inch inside my folded PUP is already occupied with "permanent stuff" like the canopy, small grill, charcoal, towels, dishes, pot/pans, and, and, and. Even if I opened the camper, there is no room for such things as perishable and non-perishable food, extra clothes, and so on. As I said in bullet one, ALL this stuff must go into the tiny entry way or the tow vehicle.
  • My packing tactics: 2 flip top tubs for dry goods (bread to dog food to canned goods)-stacked; a 5 gallon bucket with leveling wedges that doubles as a way to empty the gray-water tank (only 12 gallons); tiny folding camp side tables, trash can, ladder (a MUST have with a HW), duffels for clothes, and a tiny...I mean TINY...amount of food in the fridge. The freezer will hold precisely two bags of frozen fries and two bags of frozen vegetables...PERIOD.
  • The pathetically small outdoor cubbies (all two of them) are packed to the gills with the power cord, water connection stuff, the mini table that hangs off the side of the tub, a drill (for the stab jacks), crank handle, some plastic jack pads, para-cord, and, on the other side, the "crappy stuff" associated with black and graytank management (don't ask! )

The rest of packing is in two large coolers in the tow vehicle (TV). Anything like a generator, folding chairs, extra water jugs (your HW carries only 20 gallons in the tank and 6 in the hot water heater), "toys" (kayak, swim tubes, pump for same, etc.) gas for the generator, and much of the detritus to manage the camper, from wheel chocks to extension cord to reach the generator locked to a tree, must be carried in the TV.

Bag awnings are, shall we say, a total pain in the ass! You've lived with an electric or crank awning built on a substantial frame. A bag awning is more of a tent, and a bag awning on a HW PUP is hard to reach even with a ladder...especially if the wind comes up and you need to put it away in a hurry. (This from the perspective of a guy who's 6'6" and 250 pounds! Don't try this at home if you're 5'9" and 175#...the awning will take you for a ride. )

Then there's the fact that a PUP is just a glorified tent. Cool, you say? Not so cool when a bear comes knocking. EVERY NIGHT in bear country, ALL food must leave the PUP to be stored in the locked TV. The door on a PUP in nothing more than screen covered with flimsy plastic sliding panels that a kid can push thru with ease. They won't even let you into any national park that has grizzlies with a PUP, because in a PUP you're just a packaged snack for a brown bear.

If you want to keep it simple and force the kiddos out the door, a hybrid has the "tent" experience, and, in a pinch, you can keep the tent ends closed and go to Yellowstone and sleep on the jackknife sofa. Meanwhile, even a short hybrid can have a 6' double-door fridge, double bowl sink, huge (by comparison to a PUP) cabinet space, a REAL bathroom with a porcelain (not plastic) toilet, and, above all, the ability to load it as you prep for a trip and actually hold enough stuff to amount to something. One with a double axle will hold roughly 1500 pounds of cargo and water. A shorty with a single axle will still hold about 700 pounds, including water. More than enough for a guy thinking of a PUP.

A small hard-side (say a Rockwood 2104S) will make an outstanding couples camper and still accommodate the kiddos...but not be roomy and hospitable enough to keep them indoors on a sunny day. The Murphy bed can be left deployed when the kids are aboard so that the only place to sit is the dinette...more or less the same dinette that's in my HW277, by the way. Leave the little television at home in the garage when they are with you.

I truly believe you'd regret going to a PUP from a fiver. The adjustment is more than radical. It's extreme.

But, respecting that this is what you asked for, I'll say:

I didn't look at the 276. I have the 277. I looked at the 296 and passed.
Why:
277 advantages - in my mind:
  1. Outdoor kitchen. The sink is awesome. The stove, not so much. It doesn't like wind. But did I mention that the outdoor sink is awesome?
  2. If I recall in the 296, you have to crawl over the sofa to get to the main bed. Not appealing in the least. And, in your case, trying to evict the couch potatoes, having a couch is a liability.
  3. Double axles...double trouble. Not really, but why two when one will do? A single axle is far more maneuverable in tight spaces, because there is no lateral tire scrub. That may not matter much to you, but it's important to me because I boondock exclusively, the camper is lifted, and I have to spin the trailer 180 degrees when I park it.
  4. It didn't have a TV. Like you, what the hell do I need a TV for? I camp to camp. I don't go to RV parks with hookups and hang around watching football. We go to a remote mountain lake or a dispersed camping spot in the national forest somewhere. So the TV and space for the TV in the 296 were a waste of money and space. And I go solar, so I can't afford the watts to run a TV...and I sure as hell ain't gonna run a generator to watch a DVD. As a famous person said, that's why god invented books...or canoes...or hiking boots.

Again, now preaching, consider long and hard before you downsize from a fiver to a PUP. I think you'll regret the decision, especially when the kiddos move on and you're left with all the work and sacrifice a PUP entails. PS, by work I mean another 45 minutes to setup and tear down, and god help you if it rains on departure day, because then you get the added joy of having to setup the camper at home to dry it out.

Did I mention that canvas is fragile and tears? Now I did. Did I mention that lift winches are trouble-prone? Did I mention that the dummy who designed the HW277 didn't route the propane hose in a way to accommodate a second battery even though the tongue frame could hold one? Did I mention that the rear bumper couldn't carry a rack to hold a spare toothpick?

If you're bound and determined to get a PUP, I suggest you buy a good used "low-wall" with a bathroom that you can trade in without much loss in depreciation when you get sick of it and need to upgrade to a hard side.

Don't get me wrong. MY HW277 was a massive upgrade from an old Viking with a 10' tub, no bathroom, no hot water heater, and a 10 gallon fresh tank with a hand-pump faucet. We call it the Tent Mahal. As PUPS go, it's "all that." But for a guy used to living the life in a fiver, the step down is like jumping off a cliff. And guess what I'm shopping for...remember that 2104 I mentioned above?

OK, I'm done.
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Old 09-25-2018, 03:36 PM   #7
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I've been camping in my pup several times in Glacier and Yellowstone as recently as last year, so saying they won't allow you into National Parks is completely false. And if you think your safe in a hardsided trailer just watch the videos of a BLACK bear ripping open a car with food in it, let alone a grizzly.
Lock your food in a tv? Do that in Yosemite and they will impound your car, and if a bear breaks into your car you're looking a HEFTY fine. A bearbox is the place you stow food.
Brown bears are majestic animals and a real experience to watch, but remember you're on their turf and you need to give them the respect they warrant.
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Old 09-25-2018, 04:02 PM   #8
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I've been camping in my pup several times in Glacier and Yellowstone as recently as last year, so saying they won't allow you into National Parks is completely false. And if you think your safe in a hardsided trailer just watch the videos of a BLACK bear ripping open a car with food in it, let alone a grizzly.
Lock your food in a tv? Do that in Yosemite and they will impound your car, and if a bear breaks into your car you're looking a HEFTY fine. A bearbox is the place you stow food.
Brown bears are majestic animals and a real experience to watch, but remember you're on their turf and you need to give them the respect they warrant.
Yep, saying that national parks with bears, don't allow soft sided campers is false.
Only ONE national park campground has a permanent ban on soft-sided campers, Fishing Bridge in Yellowstone.
All the other Yellowstone campgrounds for RVs allow soft-sided campers, including Bridge Bay, which is a short distance from Fishing Bridge.
We stayed in Glacier and Yellowstone in our hybrid, at Madison, Canyon and Grant. There were Pop ups there also.
Yosemite has no ban on soft-sided campers either, even though they have black bear issues.
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Old 09-26-2018, 05:59 AM   #9
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We opted for a 276, basically because of the floor plan. I didn't think we'd ever use an outdoor kitchen and there is more seating in the 276 than 277. Plus, I liked the counter top distribution better. In the 277, the door opened up right next to the king bed. I didn't like that. The price you mention is very good, about 1k cheaper than I paid for mine.
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Old 09-26-2018, 07:07 AM   #10
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Funny you mention counter top distribution. I did not like the stove top being so close to the back bed in the 276.
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Old 09-26-2018, 07:11 AM   #11
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Funny you mention counter top distribution. I did not like the stove top being so close to the back bed in the 276.
Yeah, I'm not thrilled with that either.
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Old 09-26-2018, 07:34 AM   #12
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We downgraded this year from a 38ft fifth wheel to a 296hw. It was for the same reasons you listed and we could also fit the popup in some more remote locations. Best decision ever! My wife who is more of a glamper than camper actually likes the floorplan and countertop space better than our fifth wheel.

We went with the 296 because of the dual axles (better cargo capacity and less sway). The u shaped dinette is awesome. It has more room than our old booth dinette had and more storage under the seats. The shower toilet combo works great. My wife said she likes to be able to sit while she showers. The only downside is the refrigerator location requires the camper opened up.

We are able to keep this one at home which saves storage fees and is much handier to load and unload. Towing is so easy that my wife feels comfortable doing it. I was able to get rid of my diesel truck and get a more fuel efficient truck that is cheaper to maintain.

We have no regrets doing this. Some of our camping club members question why we would do it but it's our life not theirs. The kids are more active outside. Fishing, biking, cooking in the campfire, and generally being outside. They are being kids again instead of sitting inside playing with electronic devices. We play card games if it's raining.

Unfortunately the choices for highwall popups are down to three floorplans if you are buying new. I think the price being close to that of small hardside campers keeps the sales low. That being said we love the 296 floorplan. We wanted a couch and u shaped dinette. Buying new it was the only option. Good luck with your decision.
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Old 09-26-2018, 07:53 AM   #13
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We looked at the HWs when we retired our Coleman Utah. We elected to go with the 2514g (same basic floorplan as Utah).
  • did not care for the U-dinettes.
  • did not care for higher tow profile
  • preferred single axle
  • did not care for grey/black tank maintenance.
  • 2514g was roomier floor plan (and similar to Utah that we lilked)
  • we liked the storage trunk
.. then traded the 2514g for a Roo 21ss hybrid.
pop-up setup and teardown, especially with forced slavery, i mean, kids to help


ran us about 30 min after a couple days on the road.
While I would recommend looking at the hybrids for your downsizing, good luck with whatever you settle on and enjoy.
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Old 09-26-2018, 01:34 PM   #14
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I remember a guy once saying he bought a RV to go RVing, not camping. I think most of choose to buy a pop-up because we like to go camping and we would prefer to avoid staying at the RV campgrounds and resorts. We want to stay at the sweet campsites in the middle of the national parks, open up the canvas and enjoy being outdoors.
They are versatile, with a good set of deep cycle batteries and a decent solar set up you can spends weeks camping where ever you want without ever having to worry about electric, and if you're camping somewhere hot you have the option of springing for a full hook up.
Add some 2" mattress toppers and the beds are pure heaven. The best part of having a pop up is that you can trick it out anyway you want.
If you've spend a lot of time camping in the national parks, you know shower facilities are few and far between and this is where the high walls shine. Add an extra grey tank or pick up a portable tote and you can shower everyday.
The reason we buy a pop-up is get out into the woods and enjoy nature, not sit in the middle of some god forsaken field and bake in the sun with the next Rv 10 feet away from us.
Good luck with whatever model you choose and have fun.
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Old 09-26-2018, 04:42 PM   #15
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We started out by looking at the Highwalls too but the best layout for us was the 2716G. It has a larger U dinet than the HW with a U dinet and the stove is not next to the beds. Check out the layout. Hopefully you can find a dealer with all of them to walk through. This helped us a bunch!
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Old 10-04-2018, 08:08 PM   #16
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We sold the fifth wheel and got the 276hw, it is nice and just right for what we are looking for, thanks for the help
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Old 10-05-2018, 10:44 AM   #17
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<<SNIP>> A bearbox is the place you stow food.<<SNIP>>
Every national park may be different, but if you boondock in the national forest (and many other remote locations), there are no bearboxes.
Options for reasonably safe food storage are either take your chances with food in the camper or move it to the TV. In a "soft-side", you most definitely move it to the TV - and lock the TV.

If there was a bearbox, I would definitely use it. I've been to only one (state) campground that had bearboxes. Videos (from Colorado) of black bears invading unlocked parked cars and trashing the interiors to get at a granola bar are abundant.

My comment about national parks and grizzlies was based on a close friend's personal experience at Yellowstone this year. He has a hybrid, and the park officials insisted that he not deploy the "tent ends" for sleeping. He and his wive slept on the jackknife sofa, and, fortunately, their unit is a bunkhouse, so the grand kids got to use the bunk beds. PUPs and regular tents are prohibited where he camped. Again, each park may be different. Yellowstone would certainly be a hard one to miss simply because your camper doesn't qualify.
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Old 10-05-2018, 02:00 PM   #18
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My comment about national parks and grizzlies was based on a close friend's personal experience at Yellowstone this year. He has a hybrid, and the park officials insisted that he not deploy the "tent ends" for sleeping. He and his wive slept on the jackknife sofa, and, fortunately, their unit is a bunkhouse, so the grand kids got to use the bunk beds. PUPs and regular tents are prohibited where he camped. Again, each park may be different. Yellowstone would certainly be a hard one to miss simply because your camper doesn't qualify.
I have to say that I doubt your friend's story unless they were in a campground outside the park or at Fishing Bridge campground.
The ONLY campground in Yellowstone that has a permanent ban on soft-sided campers, is Fishing Bridge. We camped in our hybrid at Grant, Madison and Canyon campgrounds with no restrictions. In fact, they are allowed at Bridge Bay campground, which is only a short distance from Fishing Bridge.
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Old 10-05-2018, 02:48 PM   #19
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I have to say that I doubt your friend's story unless they were in a campground outside the park or at Fishing Bridge campground.
The ONLY campground in Yellowstone that has a permanent ban on soft-sided campers, is Fishing Bridge. We camped in our hybrid at Grant, Madison and Canyon campgrounds with no restrictions. In fact, they are allowed at Bridge Bay campground, which is only a short distance from Fishing Bridge.
I'll be sure to let my friend know he can't be trusted.
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Old 10-05-2018, 03:14 PM   #20
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I'll be sure to let my friend know he can't be trusted.
Not saying he can't be trusted. It makes a difference WHERE this was. As I said they must have been at Fishing Bridge or an outside the Park campground.
My bet is Fishing Bridge because hybrids can stay there IF they "turtle", meaning not deploying the tent ends. Hybrids are the only soft-sided campers that can do this.
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