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Old 04-24-2017, 10:59 AM   #1
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CO Detector Beeps on Day 2

I've spent some time reviewing the forums to get some ideas on my problem and I'm hoping you more experienced campers can help out a summer weekend warrior. ;-)

I have a 2015 Rockwood Freedom 1940 LTD. We love it! Dead easy to set up and take down and trailers like a dream.

For the last couple years we've gone up to the Grand Canyon to spend the weekend at Mather Campgound which has no hookups (boondocking). We've made about 2 or 3 such trips with this rig. Here's the issue ...

Usually early in the morning (2AM - 3AM) of the second day the CO detector will start going off. Having reviewed this forum I have dicovered this related post detailing the make/model CO/LP detector we have:

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...?do=file&id=57

After the first trip we took our 1940 back to the dealer who replaced the Safe-T-Alert under warranty and also warned us a low battery (voltage) could cause this issue also.

On our next trip to the Canyon, same thing. But this time I hooked the shore power up to my Toyota Tacoma's onboard 120V invertor for about 15 minutes and the alarm went silent and stayed that way the rest of the night until we left.

So, I'm looking for suggestions and/or options to permanently fix this problem. The battery we have is the original 12V Interstate Deep Cycle put in by the dealer and this is beginning it's 3rd season, so it may be old.

Should I replace the battery with 2 6V units for longer battery life?

Should I replace the CO/LP combo detector with an LP only and replace the smoke detector in the ceiling with a Smoke/CO combo so the RV battery is out of the loop?

Should I rewire the battery feeds to the power panel? I read somewhere that the AWG cables from the factory are very small and don't allow for complete charge/discharge cycles on the battery.

I'm hoping you experienced campers can help a somewhat newbie out. TIA!

===========================
- 2015 FR Rockwood Freedom 1940 LTD
- 2012 Toyota Tacoma TRD Sport 2WD
===========================
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Old 04-24-2017, 02:58 PM   #2
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Low battery! Invest in a generator & or a good solar-panel to keep your battery topped off. it's a must have when boondocking!
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Old 04-24-2017, 04:02 PM   #3
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ddbck - thanks for the 411. Generator recommendations???
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Old 04-24-2017, 04:27 PM   #4
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The battery is most likely a general purpose battery and not a real deep cycle battery. I would replace the battery with a true deep cycle battery and add a solar panel or small Honda or Yamaha should be fine. I would be careful using the 120V outlet in the TV as you could kill the battery in the TV as well. Make sure what ever generator you get it is an inverter generator and not an open frame construction type.
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Old 04-25-2017, 12:36 PM   #5
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CO Detector Beeping

I can't tell you the best thing but I will tell you what I did. Put in a pair of 6 volt batteries but found that when I put a significant load on the system the voltage would drop enough to set the detector off. Shortly after turning off the inverter the voltage would go up enough for the alarm to stop. So what do you do? I elected to put a switch on the detector to shut off the noise. (my detector doesn't control a LP solenoid).
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Old 04-25-2017, 01:27 PM   #6
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For my A-frame pop-up, I wanted to be able to dry camp for 4 nights in tolerably cold weather (temps at least high 20s at night, high 40s day, preferably warmer). From my previous pop-up, I knew battery would be the issue. So we ended up with dual 6 volt Interstate GC-2s from Costco.

I did not want to carry a generator, wait around the campsite for re-charging, mess with refueling, etc. We also much prefer shaded sites when available, and winds in Colorado mountains can be fierce at times. Which made solar more hassle than it was worth.

We decided we could keep the heater going for the 4 nights with a little conservation. Some things we learned along the way:

- the fridge in the A-frame is a big hog of battery when in DC mode (160 watt coil drawing 13.5 amps continuously). The voltage losses at that load make charging of the camper battery while towing with the fridge running marginal at best. This means when we stop for gas, lunch, and campsite check-in on our driving days, the camper battery is being discharged by the fridge - and that charge will not be recovered by driving. So I was arriving at the campsite with batteries well under 100% (typically 12.5V, sometimes less), depending on duration and timing of the stops.

The fridge was actually freezing the contents over the course of the day while towing due to much better air flow over the coils and the full-on nature of the DC element. I learned this by using an outdoor wireless thermometer ($10 at Walmart) with the sensor in the fridge and the readout in our minivan. So once the fridge pulls down to 28-30 while towing, I turn off the fridge for the rest of the drive. This allows the batteries to be full charged when arriving at the campsite at the end of the day. And the fridge will still be below 40 when we arrive.

I put an on/off switch on the stereo power lead to eliminate parasitic draws there. The stereo had a tendency to turn itself fully on with any change of power status (plugging in AC, turning batteries back on after being off). Also, make sure the electronic thermostat is turned off when not in use - it also has a higher parasitic draw when on compared to when off.

The A-frame came with LED lights inside, but all outside lights were regular bulbs. I've been replaced some of those with LED bulbs to reduce power use when dry camping (porch and tongue lights). I replaced the tail/brake bulbs with LED bulbs to reduce load on the minivan when towing. I still have the marker lights to go. We tend to use LED flashlights and an LED lantern for much of our lighting while camping.

just what we have learned - and yes we have caused the CO/propane alarm to go off for low voltage along the learning path

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Old 04-25-2017, 01:37 PM   #7
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Kick the CO Detector to the Curb and buy one at Home Depot

All previous advice is good, but something doesn't add up.
Low voltage from the battery makes sense, but if the voltage was "THAT" low, things like the furnace, lights, water pump, and so on, would also betray low voltage. Is that happening? I've run my battery down to the point that the water pump was producing very little pressure, and the CO alarm did not start beeping. Doing that took 4 days of continuous boondocking on a a single, conventional deep-cycle 12 volt battery.

Again, one day's worth of draw down doesn't make sense unless you have a faulty battery AND you are getting clear symptoms that battery voltage is low enough that other things won't run. My CO alarm has never beeped due to low voltage. If your battery is able to run the furnace and power the water pump and lights, something else is going on. This is an educated guess, but it sounds as if the voltage detector for the CO alarm is FAR too sensitive. If you think about most CO and Smoke alarms, they run on a 9 volt battery that lasts a year or more.

In lieu of a better answer, you might consider disabling the built-in CO alarm and installing a unit from Home Depot that runs on batteries: Carbon Monoxide Alarms - Fire Safety - ¬*The Home Depot $20 and some fresh batteries would put you out of your misery AND ensure that your alarm functions as it should.

All the recommendations to improve capacity (multiple batteries and a solar charger), and to supply 120 volt power (generator) are valuable boondocking upgrades. I'm installing solar this year, and depending how it goes, I will add a 2nd panel if needed. Getting started with a 100 watt panel, a charge controller, cables and mounts will cost about $200. A 2nd battery, battery box, and connecting cables would cost about the same. I've gone 4 days on one 12 volt battery charge, so I think the solar will do the trick.

In fairness, to stretch our battery life, we use 12 volt power sparingly. I run a propane mantle lantern to light the interior (and add some heat), and I use a couple of LED lanterns to supplement. I also converted all my incandescent bulbs to LED. We do not use the stereo (I have a bluetooth rechargeable speaker.) We save our power for the furnace and the water pump.

I also have a 2kw inverter generator (Genrac) that I bought at Costco for about $580 or so (sizable savings from a Honda/Yamaha). It is slightly noisier (only a couple dB) compared side by side with my friend's Honda, but I have a 12-3 100' extension cord and a trucker's chain to lock the generator to a tree far from the camper, so noise is seldom an issue. That cord is heavy enough to transmit 15 amps that distance without losses. If you're fussy and rich, buy a 10-3 extension cord. That's the size of cable required to run a 30 amp 240 volt circuit to your clothes dryer.

An insulated, weatherproof "doghouse" keeps the generator out of the rain (Important!!) and further muffles (and contains and directs) the noise away from us and others. We use the generator only to run the microwave and an electric espresso maker - and to heat up the beds with electric blankets. Yes, glamping.

I've also used the generator at home during extended power outages to keep our computers and internet running (for our consulting business) and to run the fridge/freezer. It's not really a good backup generator to run the house, but it does have the capacity to keep the basics going. Saving a fridge full of food just once will almost pay for that generator. Very happy with the Genrac. Generac Power Systems | Portable Generator | iX Series | iX2000 | Generac Power Systems

A generator pushing power into your converter is a slow way to charge a battery. Idling your truck to supply an inverter is an expensive way to power up the camper - and risky for leaving you stranded if you don't idle the truck engine.

Kick the factory CO detector to the curb and go solar. You'll run out of everything else before you run out of juice, and a fresh 9 volt battery will shut up the detector.
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Old 04-25-2017, 01:46 PM   #8
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1. At 3 years in service, your battery has probably lost some capacity. I would consider replacing it.

2. If your trailer tongue is like mine, you can add a second group 24 12 volt battery next to it to double your capacity.

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Old 04-25-2017, 01:51 PM   #9
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Keep in mind that the factory-supplied alarm is for BOTH CO AND LP. "Home" alarms are CO only.
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Old 04-25-2017, 01:57 PM   #10
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The combination propane/CO alarm Forest River uses in PUPs is alarming at a much higher voltage than the one in my 2000 Coleman PUP did. In the Coleman PUP, the battery had be totally dead (not even run the water pump) before the alarm would sound.

In my present 2014 A-frame, the low voltage alarm goes off at just below 12.0 volts - there is still enough battery to run the water pump and interior LED lights and Fantastic Fan. I have learned this the hard way. And judging by the number of complaints, my experience is not uncommon.

Yes, a household CO detector will run on its own battery (most have a 5 year life and non-replaceable battery) and solves the issue. BUT IT OFFERS NO PROPANE ALARM. Of course, you can detect a propane leak with your nose. But propane tends to sink, and your nose is normally up high. It's really a personal choice, but one should be aware of the consequences.

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Old 04-25-2017, 07:08 PM   #11
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My A-frame is cluttered with the propane hose from the tanks being routed carelessly across the span that could be filled by a 2nd battery. I'd have to extend the hose and build a custom battery carrier to bridge over the hose. Poor design error, when all they had to do was route the propane hose down the center or above or to the side.
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Old 04-25-2017, 09:28 PM   #12
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It's all about the batteries. Get yourself two 6 V deep cycle batteries, sized appropriately so you're not using more than 25% of total amp hours on a daily basis. Keep them charged, a seriously depleted battery is forever compromised.

https://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/...ging-puzzle-2/
is an excellent resource to start with. There's a lot of information, read it all and you'll know more than most anyone about solar and battery needs and uses.
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Old 04-26-2017, 10:21 AM   #13
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This will sound strange but I was told, by my dealer, to keep DOG FOOD in a sealed container. I was told that in the heat, it gives off gasses that set the alarm off.
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Old 04-26-2017, 08:54 PM   #14
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Co/lp detector

So I just returned from another long weekend of camping in the good old rocky mountians. My stupid CO/LP detector woke me up every night at about 3 or 4 am. Once my battery would get below ~50% the detector will let out one loud beep every ~10sec. This is so annoying when you are trying to get a good night sleep. In order to make it stop I would have to fire up the generator so it would charge the batteries. So it is still cold this time of year where I go camping ~26 degrees and the heater runs all night with no problem. The fan is still blowing strong when I wake up so I know the batteries still have power. I have 2 12v deep cycle batteries and a solar panel set up. Power is not the issue. I am starting to think these CO/LP detectors are defective. Why would they alarm when the batteries still have plenty of power? Sounds like others are experiencing the same issues. Sounds like there are really no good ways to fix this. Dont want to replace it with a home depot unit because they dont detect LP gas, dont want to place a switch or eliminate the alarm because if there is a CO/LP leak we could die, and i dont want to change out my 12v batteries for 6v because they are brand new. Any other ideas? I guess I will just have to take it back to the dealer and see what they can do.
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Old 04-26-2017, 10:18 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicoborrego View Post
So I just returned from another long weekend of camping in the good old rocky mountians. My stupid CO/LP detector woke me up every night at about 3 or 4 am. Once my battery would get below ~50% the detector will let out one loud beep every ~10sec. This is so annoying when you are trying to get a good night sleep. In order to make it stop I would have to fire up the generator so it would charge the batteries. So it is still cold this time of year where I go camping ~26 degrees and the heater runs all night with no problem. The fan is still blowing strong when I wake up so I know the batteries still have power. I have 2 12v deep cycle batteries and a solar panel set up. Power is not the issue. I am starting to think these CO/LP detectors are defective. Why would they alarm when the batteries still have plenty of power? Sounds like others are experiencing the same issues. Sounds like there are really no good ways to fix this. Dont want to replace it with a home depot unit because they dont detect LP gas, dont want to place a switch or eliminate the alarm because if there is a CO/LP leak we could die, and i dont want to change out my 12v batteries for 6v because they are brand new. Any other ideas? I guess I will just have to take it back to the dealer and see what they can do.
Are you actually measuring your batteries with a meter, without a load, to determine their actual level? The little lights on the control panel are no where near an accurate reading.
It's all about amp hr capacity and actual amp hr usage. Do you know either of those numbers on a daily basis? The 12V batteries just don't have the capacity, and if they have been run down below 50% several times their capacity has been further degraded and compromised. It doesn't matter how new they are.
I'm betting the issue is the batteries , not the alarm. Save your time and money and test your batteries and monitor usage and recharging.
Here is a handy chart for measuring your battery.
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Old 04-27-2017, 02:10 PM   #16
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I confess I learned a lot in this thread. I was unaware of the propane detector. Fortunately, the alarm in my 2014 camper (Forest River [FR] HW-277) is not hypersensitive to low voltage.

I discovered that there is a LOT of chatter on this issue in multiple forums--especially related to Forest River brands.

I have to wonder if the low-voltage sensitivity is adjustable. That's just a guess, but based on the variability from one FR camper to the next, perhaps it is. There's no way such an adjustment would be a user option, but the factory might do it.

I found this instruction sheet for the Safe-T-Alert alarm: http://www.mtiindustries.com/PDFs/rv/35_Series.pdf It claims the alarm will function normally down to 7 volts...and momentarily down to as low as 1 volt! "Low Power Operation" on page 3 column 2. The alarm codes are also on page 3 in a chart. A toll-free phone number, website and email address for the manufacturer are on the last page.

Because of the nature of this device, the manufacturer may be more liable for repair/replacement than they might be under other circumstances. It may be worth giving them a call to walk through the problem with them. They might just send you a replacement.

One more hunch comes to mind. Is it possible that there is a big voltage drop AT THE ALARM? Is it possible to test voltage at the alarm input? If you pull the alarm from its mount, you may be able to use a VOM meter to test the voltage at the lugs that supply power to the unit. If there are no lugs, and the wires come straight out of the unit and go to the power panel, you could carefully scrape away a bit of insulation from the wires and test - then wrap with good quality electrical tape to re-insulate.

There could also be a localized low voltage condition. It seems highly unlikely, but one possibility is that if the unit is connected to "chassis" ground rather than having the black/negative lead connected to the converter/fuse/breaker panel, a bad ground would cause problems similar to poor ground for trailer running lights (where ground wires are screwed to the chassis, and ground current passes through the trailer frame). If FR took a shortcut and just drove a ground screw into the frame somewhere, a bit of corrosion at the ground connection would cause a big voltage drop. It's also likely that the main fuse/breaker panel is grounded to the chassis, and its ground connection may be poor. The battery feeds both Red and Black wires to the panel, but everything is probably grounded to the chassis. Similarly, a loose screw on either end of either wire might cause low voltage. Double check your panel and tighten all connections. Both ideas seem far-fetched, except that this alarm should function normally down to 7 volts (as mine does), so, if the alarm is OK, there must be another problem.

As a work-around, I looked for a battery-powered Propane detector alarm, and there is such a thing for a reasonable price. In lieu of a repair/replace/brand change, this might provide some peace of mind and peaceful sleep when combined with a battery CO alarm. https://smile.amazon.com/i-POOK-602-...opane+detector

Another alternative is a different brand of detector: Sweet Deal on Atwood RV Carbon Monoxide and Propane Gas Detector - 12V I'm sure that "Suburban" and other gas appliance manufacturers must make them, too.

Again, thanks to those who pointed out that this alarm detects propane and CO. I learned a valuable lesson. Also, I apologize that my responses are so long-winded, but tracing an electrical problem is seldom simple.
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Old 04-27-2017, 02:13 PM   #17
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P.S. The Safe-T-Alert alarm has a five-year lifespan after manufacture, and it should sound an "end-of-life" alarm.
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Old 04-28-2017, 12:07 PM   #18
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Thank you all for the great advice. This gives me MUCH food for thought.

Just to reply to some of the comments offered;
- Yes, it IS a deep cycle Interstate battery (Group 24)
- Space on the tongue is at a premium
- Tongue weight may also be an issue

I had looked into going solar when we first bought the trailer, but I just couldn't justify the cost with how often we go out camping (average once per month).

I explored switching to a dual 6V battery set up, but no matter how I work the math there's just not enough room on the tongue. And the additional weight may be a factor to consider.

I explored re-running the main cables from the battery to the breaker / converter / charger panel with #0 cable to minimize losses. May still do this soon.

Most of the experienced campers I talk to say at the end of the day buying a generator is the probably best overall long term solution. I hadn't considered the fact that bringing a generator would open the ability to take an electric fry pan or drip coffee maker along.

So this is definitely still an active work in process. And I'm still exploring and deciding what to do. But at this point it looks like I'll be buying an inexpensive Harbor Freight generator and exploring upsizing my Group 24 battery & box for a Group 27 battery & box. And at the same time I'll most likely install a master cutoff switch to kill the parasitic battery drain that normally happens when the trailer's parked.

Another quick note, I will probably also install a battery charge monitor (a.k.a., digital volt meter) inside the trailer very soon as well to help keep an eye in charge status.

I'll keep this post updated with my progress over the next few weeks. Want to have a solution, even partial, in place before our next outing in late May.

Thank you so much fellow FR owners and RV'ers! This is why I love this forum.
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Old 04-28-2017, 09:34 PM   #19
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So I have brand spanking new batteries. 2 12v interstate 24type run in parallel. Bought the camper in February 2017 and only been out twice this year. They have been run below 50% a maximun of 6 times.I do not go by the battery gauge on the control panel because I have a digital battery monitor in my camper that came with the solar panel package. It tells me exactly how many volts my batteries have, when they are charging, and the percentage of battery life that still remains. It is real hard for me to belive that my actual batteries are causing this issue. I will double check with my Fluk volt meter this weekend.

There were also a couple more helpful tips from jimmoore that I will try. I really think it comes down to the fact that my CO/LP DETECTOR is a piece of garbage and needs to be replaced. We will know soon. I am heading out camping again at the end of next month.

I hope KwheelerAZ finds a solution also.
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Old 04-29-2017, 10:10 AM   #20
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CO Detector Beeps on Day 2

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Originally Posted by KWheelerAZ View Post

Just to reply to some of the comments offered;
- Yes, it IS a deep cycle Interstate battery (Group 24)


How is the battery rating listed: CCA or AH?

If it says CCA or Marine on it, it isn't a true deep cycle. However that may have nothing to do with your problem.
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