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Old 04-15-2019, 09:54 PM   #1
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Does HW277 have more benefits than HW276?

If I were to go to a highwall model, thought the HW276 would be the model, being that it has additional sitting in a L bench, plus sitting across from the tv area. Plus the L bench would make bed access much easier for smaller kids, and less of a fall if they roll off in the night.

But I see my dealer doesn't even stock the HW276 while selling plenty of HW277 models. Maybe there's something there I'm not seeing that makes the HW277 more desirable. I know it has that outside kitchen but the low pressure stove and sink do little for me so I'm thinking the same for most others.

I remember back in the day around 2005 - 2008 when that HW276 floorplan was the #1 floorplan for a highwall. Fleetwood's Niagra, and Starcraft's 3608 (soft wall shower) and 3612 (hardwall shower) were the Highwalls to have. Just surprised that the HW276 isn't even on order or stocked.
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Old 04-16-2019, 06:04 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Mike91 View Post
If I were to go to a highwall model, thought the HW276 would be the model, being that it has additional sitting in a L bench, plus sitting across from the tv area. Plus the L bench would make bed access much easier for smaller kids, and less of a fall if they roll off in the night.

But I see my dealer doesn't even stock the HW276 while selling plenty of HW277 models. Maybe there's something there I'm not seeing that makes the HW277 more desirable. I know it has that outside kitchen but the low pressure stove and sink do little for me so I'm thinking the same for most others.

I remember back in the day around 2005 - 2008 when that HW276 floorplan was the #1 floorplan for a highwall. Fleetwood's Niagra, and Starcraft's 3608 (soft wall shower) and 3612 (hardwall shower) were the Highwalls to have. Just surprised that the HW276 isn't even on order or stocked.
Yes, the HW276 is hard to find on a lot. Like you, at least in the Midwest, I found the 277 to be the only thing in stock. The problem we had with the 277 was the layout. It's not bad at all, just preferred the L seating like you mentioned and the entry more in the middle, countertop broken up some. I also felt like an outdoor kitchen was overkill and figured I was very unlikely to use it. We had to order one through a dealer new to get ours (took about 6 weeks). In retrospect, we would have been fine with the 277. We haven't actually used the L seating much and the outdoor kitchen would have been fine. But still happy with the direction we went with.
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Old 04-16-2019, 06:52 AM   #3
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We have the 277 love the outdoor kitchen our kids are taller so we like not having to step on to a couch to get into the bed it's also nice having access to fridge when popped down makes travel stops nice and packing up easier
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Old 04-16-2019, 06:59 AM   #4
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We have the 277 and love the outside kitchen, mainly for the sink. A big thought for us was that we can get to the fridge when folded up. The 276 has the fridge towards the rear and you can’t get to it with the slide pushed in.
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Old 04-16-2019, 03:28 PM   #5
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We had a 277 HW for about 2 1/2 years and truly enjoyed it. We liked the countertop space and the sink in particular. We also enjoyed the outdoor kitchen and used it several times. Our solution to the absence of the L-seating was to remove the table from the dinette and just relax with the TV on the counter next to the front bunk. I also made some moveable steps (3-step rise) to make it easier to get up into the bunk. We did well with that unit. We recently traded it in for a larger travel trailer that offers more privacy if we can entice our son and his wife to ever go camping with us. But I cannot say anything bad about the 277HW that we had.
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Old 04-16-2019, 04:06 PM   #6
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<<SNIP>> Maybe there's something there I'm not seeing that makes the HW277 more desirable. I know it has that outside kitchen but the low pressure stove and sink do little for me so I'm thinking the same for most others.
I chose the 277 for the outside kitchen. The outside sink is VERY useful. The stove is so-so, because wind is an issue, and the wind-blocker makes it hard to use both burners. But I do use it in nice weather.

The dinette is very large, so that makes a good bed at lower altitude, and nobody needs to climb over a sofa to get into bed....or get up in the night to pee.

But either way, you can't go wrong. It really depends on what you value most.

A suggestion. The bed ends are very high, and the step up is quite a reach. I bought two of these Rubbermaid stairs and cut the back to fit over the bed step. HUGE improvement. They nest upside down in the shower and hold the toiletries when on the road. Of all the improvements I've made to my rig, this ranks up there in the top 5.

Next best improvement? A lift kit. If you only go to RV parks, don't bother. But if you boondock, lift the rig. You can see my lift kit installed in the water support photo.

Also, if you boondock, you need to travel with water. Reinforce the water tank or expect problems. See photo.

Finally, if you boondock, add solar.

You can't go wrong with either one, so let your preference be your guide. They should be able to find you a 276 pretty quickly if that's your preference.
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Old 04-16-2019, 05:19 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by totalcomfort View Post
We have the 277 and love the outside kitchen, mainly for the sink. A big thought for us was that we can get to the fridge when folded up. The 276 has the fridge towards the rear and you canít get to it with the slide pushed in.


We didnít realize how much of a plus that was until we were camping in ours! Loading the fridge without opening the whole thing!
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Old 04-16-2019, 08:02 PM   #8
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Thanks so it really seems that the love of the HW277 is for the outside kitchen and the access to the refrigerator. Neither is a concern for me but I would think that the dealer would still have some HW276.

I'm just keeping options in mind, in case they arise. Really like the 2716g so I'd like to stick with that floorplan.

Thanks for everyone's comments.
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Old 04-17-2019, 12:20 PM   #9
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We have the 277 and love the outside kitchen, mainly for the sink. A big thought for us was that we can get to the fridge when folded up. The 276 has the fridge towards the rear and you canít get to it with the slide pushed in.
I, too, love the access to the fridge...I always start it on shore power at home and load the freezer and add a few items in the fridge. (Most food is in coolers for bear safety when boondocking.) When I'm about to leave, I convert to propane for the drive, and access to the fridge enables me to verify the changeover. An RV fridge is a power hog on 12 volts, and the 7 pin connector seldom delivers over 7 amps (at most) to run the fridge...not enough, and since I boondock and normally roll out on Friday afternoons, I don't want to hit the site with a partially drained battery.

I did not realize that the floorplan in the 276 placed the fridge out of reach.
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Old 04-17-2019, 12:30 PM   #10
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Thanks so it really seems that the love of the HW277 is for the outside kitchen and the access to the refrigerator. Neither is a concern for me but I would think that the dealer would still have some HW276.

<<snip>>
Absolutely, to each his own.

As for the dealer preference to stock only HW277s, that's less surprising than you might think. My selling dealer did not have HW277s in stock....only 276s. But they found one for me quickly. I guess it's all based on what they sell most.

I suspect you could get one "shipped in" from another nearby dealer...or just drive a little to find a dealer offering a 276. Warranty service at the local dealer should not be a problem.
Based on my limited experience, I bought at a dealer that went out of business due to an eminent domain taking for a road construction project. I needed warranty service to replace my roof, and I had no problems at all getting good service from another dealer.

So if you know what you want, you should be able to haggle price over the phone then just go pick it up -- or have your local dealer go get it for you.
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Old 04-17-2019, 05:36 PM   #11
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Thanks for your help.
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Old 04-22-2019, 03:50 PM   #12
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Thanks for your help.
Mike, I just recently read your thread on why you chose the 2716g over a HW series and thought that was the camper you went with. Are you second guessing your choice?

We are currently also in the same debate if we want to get a 2716/2514 or get a HW. We would potentially like a HW but main factor is I live on a main road. So to store in our garage I have to pull straight into my drive way, unhook and then manually spin it around to load in garage which makes me nervous with the size and weight of the highwall. We have almost zero incline though. With a HW being taller than my wife, it might as well be a 10 ft tall trailer we are turning around.

I still havent found anyone with exact measurements of a 277 including the AC. I assume the low profile is same height as racks but am still curious for any owners.
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Old 04-22-2019, 05:27 PM   #13
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We are able to back our hw277 into the garage the AC cover has to be removed for clearance we have a two car garage
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Old 04-22-2019, 05:40 PM   #14
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We are able to back our hw277 into the garage the AC cover has to be removed for clearance we have a two car garage
Yea I know most people can fit them in a garage, although, depending on the year of the home, not all garage doors are the same height. Some are shorter than others and I know the forest river specs will fit, but that height listed does not include the A/C but does include the bike racks. A extra 2-3 inches can make or break my ability to clear my 79 inch opening.
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Old 04-22-2019, 06:24 PM   #15
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I will say that even with the AC cover off I might have a 1/4 inch of clearance it is tight I figured worse case let some air our of the tires
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Old 04-22-2019, 10:03 PM   #16
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<<SNIP>> I live on a main road. So to store in our garage I have to pull straight into my drive way, unhook and then manually spin it around to load in garage which makes me nervous with the size and weight of the highwall. <<SNIP>>

I still havent found anyone with exact measurements of a 277 including the AC. I assume the low profile is same height as racks but am still curious for any owners.
Though I own a 277, I never measured the height of the AC unit. That would take quite a bit of effort requiring a long straight edge, a framing level, a ladder, perfectly level ground, and three cooperative people. I do know they can be a challenge for some garage doors. I suggest you visit a dealer, bring the items I described, and measure...or have them do it while you watch and make accurate measurement a condition of sale.

As for spinning the trailer, the Trailer Valet 5X is up to the job. I am able to spin and maneuver mine in VERY tight quarters at the top of a super steep hill (the parking area is sort of flat). Whatever you buy, this will be a good investment to spin and back the trailer into your garage. Get the drill adapter and motorize it with any decent cordless drill.

The HW-277 is near the upper limit of the Trailer Valet's capacity, but mine handles it with ease. A nice feature is that, other than the mount on the A-frame, the rest of it can be left behind at home.

The big advantages of the HW are hard-side bathroom, bigger fridge, no-flip kitchen sink, stove with oven, and high interior ceiling (they use the same tent on the HW as on the standard wall, so the ceiling is about 7 1/2 feet. On the other hand, you need to add some stairs to access the beds...I used these Rubbermaid steps and cut the back of the steps to conform to the trailer's built in step. The Rubbermaid stairs nest nicely and transport in the bathroom upside down full of our toiletries.

My challenge spinning the trailer is depicted in these photos.
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Old 04-22-2019, 11:28 PM   #17
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Mike, I just recently read your thread on why you chose the 2716g over a HW series and thought that was the camper you went with. Are you second guessing your choice?
No, I have a 2019 2716g and it's been a nightmare. Haven't been able to use it once since I bought it 1/2 a year ago as it's been at the dealer and the factory several times for many serious problems. Just researching in case I'm offered options. Not many pop ups fit my needs so I'd like to know the most I can.
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Old 04-24-2019, 08:42 AM   #18
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No, I have a 2019 2716g and it's been a nightmare. Haven't been able to use it once since I bought it 1/2 a year ago as it's been at the dealer and the factory several times for many serious problems. Just researching in case I'm offered options. Not many pop ups fit my needs so I'd like to know the most I can.
Im sorry to hear you are having issues. Are the issues anything that would happen with the HW series as well?

On the discussion topic, my wife and I have been at odds about the same thing as well. She likes the 276 while I like the 277.

The main factors we see are:

Do you favor the small couch or the outdoor kitchen. The couch being the entry point for one of the beds helps little ones get into bed, but also means the cushions are constantly getting stepped on by little dirty or sandy feet.

Because the 276 has same dimension dinette but is not a U dinette means the table is larger as it extends the full length of the dinette which is a big deal for us as we like to play large elaborate board games. Although, removing the table allows for a large couch area in the 277 which makes up for not having the gaucho couch.

My wife likes the gally's stove top further away from the central door/dinette area in the 276 so whomever is cooking isnt in the middle of the camper, but we like the fact that the gally is less split up on the 277 as the door is more to the side than central so the countertop prep space feels larger in the 277.

As other have said before, I like the accessibility of the fridge while in travel mode to pre-load or precool. Those fridges can take up to 24 hours to get cold which means we typically are forced to bring a cooler even though we have a fridge.

Obviously the accessibility of the model is a big factor too. More available models means less time and money to travel to get one and more ability to negotiate a good price if you have options. If I need a dealer to go get one, I'm probably having to pay full buck.

I honestly think we would be happy with either, although, the outdoor kitchen is a big deal for me personally as I cook outside as much as possible and having one less thing to pack or purchase (mini propane bottles) is a plus for me. Going from a TT to a travel trailer, I am already going to have to pack more than Im used to since I'm losing half my storage so I wanna minimize extra things I need as much as possible.
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Old 04-24-2019, 12:48 PM   #19
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<<SNIP>>
Do you favor the small couch or the outdoor kitchen. The couch being the entry point for one of the beds helps little ones get into bed, but also means the cushions are constantly getting stepped on by little dirty or sandy feet.
COMMENT: See my comment on Rubbermaid Steps adapted to access both beds...prior comment in this thread.

<<SNIP>>
My wife likes the gally's stove top further away from the central door/dinette area in the 276 so whomever is cooking isnt in the middle of the camper, but we like the fact that the gally is less split up on the 277 as the door is more to the side than central so the countertop prep space feels larger in the 277.
COMMENT: This is an issue I overlooked in prior comments...RELATED TO THE LOCATION OF THE DOOR AND STEPS.
If you Boondock, the 277 MUST be lifted. Why? The door and steps are forward of the axle enough that the steps are vulnerable to severe punishment in off-road situations. Because the steps are about 3 to 4 feet forward of the axle, they are pushed down when going through a dip and they drag when going over a hump. A lift kit takes care of this, but it also makes an already very tall PUP 3 1/2" taller. I'm 6'6" and I must use a ladder to seal up the lift pole cover flaps and to deploy or stow the awning. I'm on the top step of a 3-step ladder! Not a problem, but typically sized people will need a taller step ladder.
Stairs SHOULD be near the axle to offer maximum ground clearance. The photos depict my poor, tortured stairs before lifting. I bent them so often that I carried a 6# sledge with me to straighten them after the camper was setup.
After I lifted the camper, I had to remove them, and use a sledge and anvil to straighten them, then I had to reinforce the mounts that had been bent repeatedly before lifting.

They'd even drag in my driveway at the corner of the "Y" where the uphill and parking area meet if I cut the turn too tight. Where the tree shadow is, there is a big gouge in the pavement where I dragged them a couple times. I learned to open the windows of my truck and listen for scraping...and try again.

If the door on the 276 is substantially closer to the axle, that is a significant advantage if you don't want to lift the rig.

I still prefer the 277, but that's definitely a point worth considering.
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Old 04-24-2019, 05:01 PM   #20
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Im sorry to hear you are having issues. Are the issues anything that would happen with the HW series as well?
Yes, most could be shared with the high walls models as well. I don't really want to get into the nature of the problems. FR seems to be working with me which is a positive and I'm going to let them make this right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon0512 View Post
The main factors we see are:

Do you favor the small couch or the outdoor kitchen. The couch being the entry point for one of the beds helps little ones get into bed, but also means the cushions are constantly getting stepped on by little dirty or sandy feet.
An outdoor kitchen for me is useless. I set up a table inside my screen house with an outdoor 'high pressure' stove and a separate grill, and sometimes a water catch basin and aquatainer for clean up. I don't like cooking by the camper. I have done this with all 4 of my previous campers. I do like the additional refrigerator of the 2716g for it's freezer and compressor design for fast cooling. Not sure if they have redesigned these small ammonia absorption refrigerators, but my 2005 and 2007 dometic 1.9 CF refrigerators were useless. They've had 12 years to make them right so that they can actually cool. My Jayco Jay Flights (both campers) 6.5 CF worked just as good as my home compressor refrigerator. Cooled great on either propane or electric. As far as stepping on the couch to get to the bed, we always have our shoes off when on the beds or couches.


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Originally Posted by Brandon0512 View Post
Because the 276 has same dimension dinette but is not a U dinette means the table is larger as it extends the full length of the dinette which is a big deal for us as we like to play large elaborate board games. Although, removing the table allows for a large couch area in the 277 which makes up for not having the gaucho couch.
Well I like the 2716g HUGE u-dinette (HW277 dinette is smaller). I have much more storage in the dinette than a traditional and more room to sit more people. The table is smaller though. The downside is that there are more cushions now so when folding up, some cushions must go under the table. My previous 2406 Starcraft had a u dinette I learned to hate, mainly because it was hard to access and it was to small. A traditional dinette would had been better.

I have to have a sofa or bench gaucho. A dinette is just to closed in for a family to sit for any lengths. A nice opened couch to stretch out on is a must. No way could I go back to another camper with only a dinette, just to uncomfortable for me.


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As other have said before, I like the accessibility of the fridge while in travel mode to pre-load or precool. Those fridges can take up to 24 hours to get cold which means we typically are forced to bring a cooler even though we have a fridge.
If that's a priority for you, it's definitely not for me as it can be to confining to even fit with the top still down.

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Originally Posted by Brandon0512 View Post
I honestly think we would be happy with either, although, the outdoor kitchen is a big deal for me personally as I cook outside as much as possible and having one less thing to pack or purchase (mini propane bottles) is a plus for me. Going from a TT to a travel trailer, I am already going to have to pack more than Im used to since I'm losing half my storage so I wanna minimize extra things I need as much as possible.
Yep, going from my 29' bunkhouse TT was a big step down in storage and amenities but the upper end Pop Ups have a lot going for them now. As I said, an outdoor kitchen is useless to me, a couch/sofa is a priority as well as my daughter being able to get in bed by herself.

I found I had a lot of stuff that I never used, packed in the travel trailer. I found I was using the travel trailer as a shed so when I changed campers, the house cleaning was needed anyway.
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