First trip ever with Pop Up - Battery issue

[Rorschach]

If you do not want to run your fridge on propane going down the road, place a jug of frozen water in it to cool it while you travel. You can pour off a little water from a gallon jug and freeze it in the house the day before, then put it in the fridge while you travel. You can do the same with multiple individual bottles of water, too. Then just drink them as they thaw while camping.

[Tundra 2014]

If you get the solar panel, just buy a 10 gauge solar extension cable-20'. That way you can move your panel to face sun east in morning/ west in after noon.
On batteries I like to have 1 good group 31 and a 100 watt solar panel w/ a small generator. If we boon docked for longer than 4 nights at a time, I would go w/ 2/6 volts. They seem to last longer, but, when 1 goes you are buying 2 new batteries to have 12 volts. Usually when 1 battery gets weak, it takes the other w/ it. And I only have to use one battery maintainer and take 1 battery home from storage.

[pgandw]

Originally Posted by TomInOntario

We are used to tent camping, so we booked an unserviced site and planned to use minimal battery power (water pump and maybe overhead lights if necessary). So I cooled the Dometic fridge by plugging into shore power at home the night before the trip. Upon departure, I switched over from AC to 12V DC to keep the fridge cold (tow vehicle alternator is hooked up to battery). Upon arrival at the campground I switched over to propane for the fridge, and lit the hot water heater.

As has been pointed out, your fridge draws about 8 amps running on 12V. Marker and brake lights (if on) will add another 6 amps unless you replace with LEDs. The trailer wiring on your Honda will determine whether that amount of current will be passed to the pop-up without voltage drop to cause the current to come from the PUP battery. There should be a 10-12 gauge wire from the Honda distribution block back to the 7 pin for this to work well.

Chances are the propane flame will be blown out when towing, so you either use 12V or do without refrigeration while towing. I strongly recommend a wireless thermometer in the tow vehicle to monitor fridge temps while towing. The small PUP fridges do not hold their cold well during towing unless the 12V is turned on. I use the wireless thermometer while camping also to adjust the propane dial.

At this point my understanding is that the only electrical draw should be the LP Gas detector (CCI Controls Pre Tell 22) and the water pump as it works to fill the hot water tank from the newly filled potable water tank. After only a few hours and not a ton of water pump, I noticed that the red (orange?) light on the LP Gas detector which indicates "Fault - Low Voltage" was lighting up when the water pump was running. It got to the point where the green "Operating" light would go out while the red one was lit up, but when the water pump load was removed the green light would go on.

Classic indication that your battery cannot support the load of the water pump. I strongly suspect your battery has lost most of it's capacity.

How the battery is maintained while the camper is stored is critical to battery life. You can safely store your battery one of two ways: 1) leave camper plugged in and the converter goes into trickle charge mode to keep the battery charged. 2) Disconnect the battery by either installing a disconnect switch that removes all loads or remove all the wires off one battery terminal. With the battery fully charged and everything disconnected, the battery will do fine for as long as 6 months in the box.

If the battery is not disconnected and the PUP is not plugged in, the battery will be pretty much dead in a month. All those hours of the propane/CO alarm being on discharge the battery. A battery stored in a discharged condition loses capacity.

I was expecting and hoping that my Motomaster Nautilus Group 24 Starting & Deep Cycle Marine/RV battery could handle the 4-5 days of off-grid camping with just water pump and a small amount of (LED) overhead dome lighting.

A fully charged battery in good condition should last the 4-5 days as long as you are not using the heater. Don't know if you have one or not - the stereo is a surprisingly big battery drain in a small camper even when it's turned off. The smoke detector in most PUPs is a 9V battery powered household unit, so does not affect your main battery.

The trailer was purchased used last year, it's a 2010, but the battery was new within a year of 2019. I did not check electrolyte levels nor battery voltage prior to leaving.

The only servicing a battery needs is recharging at the end of a trip, and keeping electrolyte (add distilled water) levels up.

hope this helps
Fred W
now 2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW A-frame
prev 2014 Rockwood A122 A-frame
prev 2000 Coleman Westlake PUP
prev 1987 Coachmen PUP

[Tiguan Tow r]

Originally Posted by Rorschach

If you do not want to run your fridge on propane going down the road, place a jug of frozen water in it to cool it while you travel. You can pour off a little water from a gallon jug and freeze it in the house the day before, then put it in the fridge while you travel. You can do the same with multiple individual bottles of water, too. Then just drink them as they thaw while camping.

We live in a condo and store our trailer. Originally, with our pop up we used freezer packs. They work well when travelling from storage to campsite. For the trip home we buy a bag of ice and put ice in large ziplock bags (to contain melted water. Sold the pop up and bought a small travel trailer. Still use the freezer packs and ice, works well.

[Bob2019]

Another alternative that we use is using a thermoelectric cooler in the tow vehicle when bringing cold items to the camper. Our RV is stored at a storage facility since we can't have them at out townhouse. Since the refrigerator is not cooled in advanced of pickup, even turning on to propane takes at least 2 hours or more to get cold to use the RV refer. These coolers work well, you don't have to mess with ice or melting ice and the loss of room the ice takes up in a conventional cooler. Another thing is being plugged in a car or truck, you won't touch your coach battery and keep it totally charged and ready to go at your campsite.

We have used a thermoelectric cooler probably for 20 years and they work great for us with no problems.

[Boomerweps]

Anything that runs on propane uses a 12vdc sparker and controller.
I travel with a few frozen gallons of water in the fridge/freezer that is turned off.
I've also added a small inverter generator in my loadout.
In your case, I recommend getting a suitcase solar system of at least 100 watts, 200 watts much better. And traveling without the fridge on 12vdc.

[pgandw]

Originally Posted by Boomerweps

Anything that runs on propane uses a 12vdc sparker and controller.

Fortunately/unfortunately not true.

The fridges used in regular height (not high wall) pop-ups and A-frames use piezio starters (like some home grills) and are continuous run. There is no 12V controller, no thermostat, no automatic start/restart.

Fridge temp is "controlled" by setting the propane valve to adjust amount of propane going to burner. The AC heater coil has a light dimmer to adjust amount of power on AC. DC is not controlled at all.

Because these fridges are continuous run, the propane flame is very small, and therefore easily blown out by driving at highway speeds.

Cooling on DC works well on these fridges. But because of tow vehicle wiring limitations, the 8-10 amps current to the fridge prevents the camper battery from being recharged by the tow vehicle. And if you stop for lunch while towing, the 8-10AH come out of your camper battery and will likely not be replaced before arrival at the campsite.

I did measurements to verify all of the above. My practice became to pre-cool the fridge on AC (and charge the battery) before departure. For the 1st 4 hours of the trip, run the fridge on DC. If temps are below 80, the fridge pulls down to about 28-29 deg. I turn off the fridge while stopped for lunch, or if really hot, start on propane during lunch. When we start driving again, switch back to DC.

Arriving at the campsite, I switch to propane before setting up so that the battery is just as full as I can manage for the trip.

I use a wireless thermometer ($10 at Walmart) to monitor the fridge while towing, and adjust propane or AC while camping.

hope this helps
Fred W
now 2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW A-frame
prev 2014 Rockwood A122 A-frame
prev 2000 Coleman Westlake PUP

[JArry]

A few points that haven't been specifically mentioned, and some of my own experiences:

A dealer-installed battery can easily be ruined on the lot due to parasitic draws and failure of dealer to keep continuously charged.

The CO/propane/smoke detectors can be overly sensitive to low battery, so I wouldn't use that as a primary determinant of the battery condition.

Cheap multimeters can be highly inaccurate, especially when you're talking tenths and particularly hundredths of a volt.

Did you experience any operational failures due to low battery or is your concern just based on meter readings and detector status lights?

As for running the fridge on 12V, I don't bother doing that anymore (it didn't work effectively for me) and instead I disconnected the wiring from the 12V fridge switch and use the switch and wires for a cooling fan instead.

Without running anything except the dormant radio while towing - I disconnected the factory-installed detector as well - my battery (now batteries - two group 24) charges sufficiently during an hours-long tow, reading 12.6-12.8V after surface charge diminishes while I set up. As said, YMMV on this point.

Finally, I recently adopted the practice of using a thermoelectric cooler in the vehicle while towing and later transferring items to the empty trailer fridge - so I second that suggestion above.

[TomInOntario]

Thanks very much for all the info, folks.


I have learned my lesson. Battery cells have been topped up-they didn't look low, but I put about 45 mls into each anyway. Charged for 24 hours, after surface charge receded it was showing voltage in the high 13s. The voltage has gone down now (no load) over about three or four days and it is reading around 13V. I also picked up a digital battery monitor so that I can keep tabs on levels while camping and won't have to wonder when I see my propane detector's "Fault, low voltage" light coming on while using the water pump.


I will no longer use the fridge on 12V when driving. I will pre-cool with AC and either leave the fridge off until I arrive or run propane on the road if I'm driving for more than 3 hours.


Follow up question: while camping, what voltage should be considered low? As in low enough that its further use will have detrimental effects to the battery's life?


Tom

[5picker]

Originally Posted by TomInOntario

Thanks very much for all the info, folks.


I have learned my lesson. Battery cells have been topped up-they didn't look low, but I put about 45 mls into each anyway. Charged for 24 hours, after surface charge receded it was showing voltage in the high 13s. The voltage has gone down now (no load) over about three or four days and it is reading around 13V. I also picked up a digital battery monitor so that I can keep tabs on levels while camping and won't have to wonder when I see my propane detector's "Fault, low voltage" light coming on while using the water pump.


I will no longer use the fridge on 12V when driving. I will pre-cool with AC and either leave the fridge off until I arrive or run propane on the road if I'm driving for more than 3 hours.


Follow up question: while camping, what voltage should be considered low? As in low enough that its further use will have detrimental effects to the battery's life?


Tom

Just a cautionary not about the statement I emboldened.

If they didn't look low then they may not have been.
I'm hoping you know you don't fill the cells to the complete top?
There is a 'fill ring' for each cell. Fuller than that and your battery will boil over even with normal charging.

As for what voltage is too low... I think most everyone agrees that 50% discharge is the mark to stop pulling from the battery.

[rsdata]

As in low enough that its further use will have detrimental effects to the battery's life?

12 volts...

12.6-7 is fully charged, while 12.0 is considered discharged. Charge back up quickly and do no let it wit at that discharged level.

[Flybob]

Generally recommended to stay above 40-50% on a regular basis.

[007matman]

I used Propane when travelling down the road in my old PUP. Never had an issue.

I usually will try to keep it above 12.1 or 2 or so.. the monitor is a good idea. They can be fairly inexpensive.

[TomInOntario]

Originally Posted by 5picker

Just a cautionary not about the statement I emboldened.

If they didn't look low then they may not have been.
I'm hoping you know you don't fill the cells to the complete top?
There is a 'fill ring' for each cell. Fuller than that and your battery will boil over even with normal charging.

As for what voltage is too low... I think most everyone agrees that 50% discharge is the mark to stop pulling from the battery.

No I did not fill the cells to the top.