More pop up maintenance related questions!

[Camping_Dad]

This past weekend my family enjoyed our second camping trip with our new pop up! It was awesome! We brought our bikes this time and the kids loved riding around the campground. They also loved swimming, playing the campground games and playing games in the camper. Ok time for some questions!

The last night of our trip it rained sideways for at least 4 to 5 hours. This time we purchased a 10ft x 10ft canopy tent and I was extremely glad we had it. I ended up overlapping the camper awning over the canopy tent by about a foot with one end set slightly lower than the other so that water would drain off. It worked great and to my surprise the camper stayed about 99% dry and it was great to be able to step outside without getting drenched. The 1% that didn’t stay dry was in the bottom four corners of the camper. Along the double seams at the bottom water slowly seeped in. It rained so hard that night that water came off the corners like a faucet. The next day there was approximately 5-10ml of water collected in the corner pockets under the bed along the waterproof canvas. Below is a picture of the area I am talking about. Keep in mind that the leak only happened on the darker double seam that is about 2 inches long. So my question is do I need to use a seam sealer around that area? I have used seam sealer products before with tents but never canvas and am scared I will mess up something if I don’t get the right thing.



My next question has to do with the drain line on the camper. Our plumbing in our coachman clipper pop up seems fairly basic. Water comes in from one hose that connects to the camper, runs through the sink and drains out of another connection. We have no problem getting water through the faucet. However, when we connect a drain hose it has a hard time draining into the ground pipe. Sorry if the term is not correct but I believe the problem lies with the drain pipe being slightly elevated from the ground so that the drain hose has to go up in which case water will not drain into it. The hose I am using is just an old 20ft garden hose I had. I have also tried using an adapter (something like this https://www.amazon.com/Camco-39322-W...675611&sr=8-52) as the diameter of the garden hose is way smaller than the regular rv poop tubes I see people using. So my actual question is can I use a flexible hose (https://www.amazon.com/EASYHOSE-Expa...NsaWNrPXRydWU=) with a sewer support hose (https://www.amazon.com/Camco-Sidewin...xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==) so that the hose will be elevated and drain properly? What do most people with pop ups use?

Final problem! Our sink has a small drain with what looks like a pea trap? The drain trap is exactly like this one (https://www.amazon.com/JR-Products-9...675960&sr=8-17) but black. When it is time to pack up we flip the sink over and the remaining water in the small rounded area (pea trap?) spills on the floor. The connection to the drain trap is cheap plastic with no stopper. Somewhere around this connection I think where it screws in had a small leak and water was dripping onto the thin wood underneath. Does anyone know of a decent quality metal drain that would fit the drain trap that has a stopper so that the water will not keep coming out when we flip the sink and over cabinet over when packing up? Do we even need that drain trap since the only waste water is just water and not actual sewage? Could I just hook the sink to a sink strainer that goes straight to the drain hose?

[flyerdp]

You say its "New" as in Brand new or "New to you"?

From the tent manufacturer on a new camper there would have been a document that talks about getting all the seams in the fabric wet to "Swell" the thread used so it seals the holes. That is an actual "new camper" maintenance step.

The slow drain issue is a fairly common as the line is small and there is no air vent such as modern indoor plumbing to allow air flow/displacement.

It is a little like taking a gallon jug and turning it upside down and expecting it to just flow smoothly out. There are threads on here where folks build a contraption out of PVC so that it can vent like this:


I don't think I would recommend that when you are draining in to a real sewer drain as I would expect foul odors to come out of that pipe.

[rsdata]

From the tent manufacturer on a new camper there would have been a document that talks about getting all the seams in the fabric wet to "Swell" the thread used so it seals the holes. That is an actual "new camper" maintenance step.

this ^^^

if it continues rub a candle stick on the outside of the fabric for a quick fix...

I would remove the P-trap and put a pail under the sink to catch the waste water.

When I owned a popup, I had a tarp that I would stake down over the roof to the ground on the sides when in heavy rain to allow me to keep the windows open, and give me a little porch area at front door.

[Camping_Dad]

Originally Posted by flyerdp

You say its "New" as in Brand new or "New to you"?

From the tent manufacturer on a new camper there would have been a document that talks about getting all the seams in the fabric wet to "Swell" the thread used so it seals the holes. That is an actual "new camper" maintenance step.

The slow drain issue is a fairly common as the line is small and there is no air vent such as modern indoor plumbing to allow air flow/displacement.

It is a little like taking a gallon jug and turning it upside down and expecting it to just flow smoothly out. There are threads on here where folks build a contraption out of PVC so that it can vent like this:
Attachment 256962

I don't think I would recommend that when you are draining in to a real sewer drain as I would expect foul odors to come out of that pipe.

Thanks Flyer and Rsdata! It is brand new, first time owners and unfortunately learning operators. I think it just leaked because it rained so hard. I mean each corner looked like a faucet for hours. We set the camper up when we got home to dry out and we had thunderstorms last night with rain. I checked it first thing this morning and no leaks at all this time. If it leaks more than what it did this past weekend I'll mess with using wax on those seams where water trickled in.



I'm glad you explained that drainage problem. It makes sense now realizing that there is no air displacement. I bought a metal sink drain at a hardware store earlier today with a stopper and will replace the plastic silver one that came with the camper. I will keep the pea trap but will just drain to a container from now on. We will boondock when cooler weather allows and I don't mind dumping a container from time to time. We really only use the water for filling water bottles, brushing teeth and washing hands.

[flyerdp]

Originally Posted by Camping_Dad

We really only use the water for filling water bottles, brushing teeth and washing hands.

Your welcome, hopefully you can sort out all the issues.

If you did not wet the tent and more specifically the threads after delivery that may be why you had leaks. I actually own a very large spool of the thread that I bought from the tent manufacturer to affect repairs (Yes I am a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to things being original). I tested it and it does enlarge/engorge when soaked which will plug those holes. Hopefully your good rain took care of it, you can always test with a garden hose. You should have received lost of manuals with a new camper.

I was fortunate in that the previous owner of mine that I bought at 2 years old had kept every last one. There is info on lubricating the lift system, the bearings etc... how to clean the canvas and more especially the more delicate areas that are the bunk end windows fabric zip open covers.

As far as a simple sink for what you describe, I have seen more than one person refer to using a plastic, folding fish cleaning table with sink that can just have the drain run off a ways to keep it off your feet or in to a bucket.

https://www.strombergschickens.com/p...RoC4CUQAvD_BwE

[Chuck_S]

Tentage typically needs to be "seasoned" by soaking it with water and let the threads swell up and seal the needle holes in the seam. You can do this with a hose or just let the rain do it. Letting the rain do it is simple but be prepared for little puddles if you're also sleeping in the camper at the time. Should be OK now. If in doubt put the trailer up at home and soak the seams a couple more times.

Never had a P-trap spill on our popup but our sink did not tip over. Regardless, there are drain plugs for the sink drains to prevent this if you have to invert yours.

You need the trap to keep critters out and sewer or waste tank gas out of the trailer. Just letting the sink drain on the ground is rarely permitted and makes a mess.

-- Chuck

[pgandw]

I just have a short hose that attaches to the sink outside drain. Other end goes into a bucket that I empty when needed into the campsite sewer or feed the trees in less developed campgrounds. We generally don't wash dishes inside so accumulation is typically very small.

Fred W
2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW A-frame
2008 Hyundai Entourage minivan
camping Colorado and adjacent states one weekend at a time

[jimmoore13]

You seem to have your seam-leaks under control.

As for the drain, there should NOT be a trap in the drain on a pop-up (PUP) unless it's a High-Wall. But the trap in the drain on a High-Wall also has its own vent. I can't tell what you have, but I'll presume a standard (low) wall PUP. In a standard wall PUP, however, a virtual trap can form when you flip over the sink from its stowed position into it's ready-to-use position. The flex hose that connects the sink drain to the outside port can "belly" downwards and form a trap of sorts. Venting outside won't help this situation, because the trap is upstream from the vent. Instead, you must make sure the drain hose is positioned so it does not form a belly in which water (and sediments and foot particles) can settle.

In other words, when no water is going down the drain, that hose should be full of air only, and when you pour water down the sink drain, then your sink drain is the vent, and the water flows reliably through the side port into the bucket or other capture device.

If your drain hose bellies and traps water, look at the design and determine why. It's not supposed to belly. Often there is a shelf or some other support for the hose so it stays level with or flows downhill to the outside port. Fiddle around a bit and experiment with small bungees or zip ties to support that hose at the point it sags and forms a trap. That should be there from the factory, but may have been overlooked. It's a simple fix to keep that hose from sagging. If I recall, on my first PUP, I added a tiny bungee that I unhooked for travel and hooked around the drain hose to hold it up when in service. Very easy fix.

Also, most people collect this grey water in a 5 gallon bucket. But, if you choose to connect your outside port to a sealed container, the CONTAINER must be vented to allow air out of the container as it fills. There are jugs that will accept a garden hose fitting into the jug, and that makes the jug a sealed container. All you need to do is remove the vent cap that needs to be removed when emptying the jug. Just remember to install the vent cap when carrying the full jug, or you'll get wet.

The drain vents are a good idea for some applications, but all drain vents must be UPSTREAM of any trap, so adding one of the pictured drain vents outside when the trap is in the drain hose inside won't help much if at all.

[jimmoore13]

P.S. Note on collecting grey water. Water weighs 8.3 pounds per gallon. The roughly 4 gallons a 5 gallon pail an comfortably hold will weigh only 33 pounds plus the weight of the pail. But, one can easily find 7 gallon or larger jugs (usually for fresh water), and when full, one of those weighs in at a hefty 60 pounds. "60 pounds ain't nuthin'!", you say? Carry it 100 yards to a vault toilet to dump it.

I routinely fill 7 gallon Reliance jugs with fresh water, and I can quite handily lift them and hold them steady to pour them into the fresh tank. BUT carrying them any distance is another matter. A 5 gallon container is plenty for grey water than needs to be toted a distance.

[flyerdp]

Originally Posted by jimmoore13

You seem to have your seam-leaks under control.

As for the drain, there should NOT be a trap in the drain on a pop-up (PUP) unless it's a High-Wall. But the trap in the drain on a High-Wall also has its own vent.

I can't speak to what should or should not be there with regard to a trap but my 2016 228D has fairly normal home style P trap attached at the outside wall made entirely out of PCV P trap fittings. After that, closer to the sink is the hose barb that attaches to the standard hose Forest River uses for popup sink drains. I think its 1 1/4.



I have also seen a couple of people say "Swing upside down" but mine just swings out in to the isle and then down to the floor, it does not "flip" upside down.