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Old 09-10-2019, 09:01 AM   #21
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I'd have to call BS on that comment regarding the 3/4 to 1/2 adapter/extension, etc. Yes you lose a slight amount of leverage via twist in the extension but once the slop is taken up in the adapters they're out of the picture.


Had same issue on last trailer. Had a Harbor Freight 4 way star wrench and it was actually twisting the steel, not loosening the lug. Fortunately I was in my driveway and brought out a breaker bar and cheater. Not even my 3/4 air impact would move them at 100 PSI.
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Old 09-10-2019, 09:02 AM   #22
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Most reputable shops now use torque extension bars, not torque wrenches. These extensions are calibrated to limit the amount of torque impact wrench deliver to the nuts. They come in various torque values.

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Old 09-10-2019, 12:26 PM   #23
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The second thing I learned from my friend the tire store manager is that my system of going from a 3/4 inch Drive through a adapter to 1/2 inch and then a half inch extension weakens the torque as you go through several connections.
Don't go to this guy anymore. He doesn't know what he is talking about.
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Old 09-10-2019, 12:42 PM   #24
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I had the same experience on my last trailer. I bought it used and found a four-way lug wrench in one of the compartments, so I decided to verify that it actually had a size that would work properly. I found it had the right size, but no way could I get any of the lugs loose. I was able to loosen the lugs with a breaker bar (barely, and I'm a big guy!), but I, too, was extremely happy that I discovered the problem in my driveway and not alongside the highway somewhere.
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Old 09-10-2019, 12:49 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Bob414 View Post
Most reputable shops now use torque extension bars, not torque wrenches. These extensions are calibrated to limit the amount of torque impact wrench deliver to the nuts. They come in various torque values.

Bob
Torque bars are used at a lot of places but there are still many reputable shops that use manual torque wrenches including the ones I go to.
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Old 09-10-2019, 01:25 PM   #26
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Don't go to this guy anymore. He doesn't know what he is talking about.
A loose socket, a worn socket, and or an extension will affect the torque if using a impact but not a tourque wench. Just think of an impact, like a hammer, and you are pounding on a steel plate or a nail and they are placed on a rubber pad or better yet a mattress. The pad, mattress will absorb some of the energy. At work when we used an impact on big nuts 3" thru 6" or more nuts we would have 1 person running the impact and the other person hold the socket tight against the rotation of nut, so it would receive the max impact. It makes a big difference the bigger the nut and the more slop the greater loss of torque. Did it almost everyday. Simple physics.
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Old 09-10-2019, 01:27 PM   #27
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A loose socket, a worn socket, and or an extension will affect the torque if using a impact but not a tourque wench. Just think of an impact, like a hammer, and you are pounding on a steel plate or a nail and they are placed on a rubber pad or better yet a mattress. The pad, mattress will absorb some of the energy. At work when we used an impact on big nuts 3" thru 6" or more nuts we would have 1 person running the impact and the other person hold the socket tight against the rotation of nut, so it would receive the max impact. It makes a big difference the bigger the nut and the more slop the greater loss of torque. Did it almost everyday. Simple physics.
That would be true if he was using an impact wrench but I don't believe he was.
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Old 09-10-2019, 02:22 PM   #28
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That would be true if he was using an impact wrench but I don't believe he was.
I used an impact driver only briefly. The real problem was with my very heavy three quarter inch ratchet adapted to half inch into a short extension and a 13/16 6 point socket that incidentally was not impeded by the sides of the recess.

I'm 6ft tall weighing 205 lb and even though I'm 75 years young, I'm almost as strong as I ever was and I used to be pretty darn strong. All that being said I just about busted a gut and could not move that lug nut even slightly - none of them!

Then I found that satellite dish mounting arm ( I knew I kept it for some reason) and used it as a pipe extender and even with the 15 lb ratchet extended out to at least 4 feet and cranking on it as hard as I could, it would not move. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned about threads being stretched, I think what they really meant is that when the threads are driven down so hard they probably compress and then require superhuman torque to uncompress and loosen. Fortunately, if the threads were distorted, they came back into shape and properly installed with manual tools.

I know I potentially saved myself a big hassle and if even one person checks this out and finds the same sorry set of circumstances, that's what these forums are all about. Incidentally, this pop-up is new to me and I did not buy or install these new tires. I like to think I would have prevented King Kong with his super powerful impact driver.
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Old 09-10-2019, 02:33 PM   #29
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I've been following the thread "are you really ready for a flat tire"?. I've checked all the pressures both car and trailer. I've made sure that I have an adequate selection of sockets and I'll be using a three-quarter inch Craftsman Ratchet handle that weighs about 15 lb along with several different extensions. I verified correct sockets. I have a pressure gauge and a small 12 volt compressor. I've got a bottle jack, platforms and two jack stands. I even went through the process to discover where on Earth is my spare tire on my Town & Country minivan. I had no idea where it was and I'm really glad that I learned the process. It's complicated and the Mickey Mouse tire that wanted 60 lb only had 20.

So you would think I'm pretty well prepared but I ran into a situation that would be absolutely horrible If you experienced it on the road. The lug nuts on the brand new trailer tires were not put on by a 900 pound gorilla, they were put on by King Kong. My 15 pound, 3/4 inch ratchet would not even begin to turn the first lug nut. So I found an old satellite dish arm and used it as a leverage extender. It's a 2-inch pipe and with 6 ft of Leverage I still couldn't move these lug nuts. So I brought my compressor over and used a fairly stout impact driver. Not a chance.

Can you imagine a flat tire on an interstate highway and you have lug nuts that are impossible to take off? Tomorrow morning I will be going to my local tire store and letting them use their professional equipment to loosen these lugs and I will hand tighten them. May I suggest that if you want to be prepared for a flat tire on the road, be very sure that your lug nuts can be removed with manual tools. Better yet, watch them when you put on tires and specify that you want them to be only enough torque to be safe but still able to be removed on the highway. This could have been a huge problem with a total blowout on a busy interstate.
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Old 09-16-2019, 07:04 PM   #30
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Both of my cargo vans have wheel lug torque specifications (144 and 177 ft-lb) which are way beyond what one might expect to address when changing a tire. I have taken to carrying an appropriate torque wrench.
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Old 09-16-2019, 08:05 PM   #31
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My friend torque values are there for a reason: to protect you, the equipment and others. No such thing as just tight enough as it will undoubtedly come loose and you may end causing an accident! Torque to specs and if it was overtorqued, consider the cheaper route of replacing those stretched lugs vice being in an accident. Words to the wise.
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Old 09-16-2019, 11:43 PM   #32
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Be careful relying on a road side service. Just last week, my son and his family sat for 4 HOURS with a flat waiting for a roadside service to finally find someone available on a Sunday. This was on I-15 in Central Utah. I would never ever rely on something like that. He had no idea how to change a dually and wasn't equipped to do so. I personally believe in self rescue.
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Old 09-17-2019, 12:57 AM   #33
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Smile Tight lug nuts vs humans

Read this post all the way thru and didn't find a mention of a torque multiplier. They are available online for$25.00 to way more than they are worth but they are available. These devise's have a planetary system which multiplies the amount of torque you put into them . On mine the ratio is 72:1, so if I put in 10 lbs of torque, if puts out 720. Short version, if you have one of these, your wife or daughter will be able to remove the toughest, tightest lug nuts on a trailer, motorhome, or tow vehicle.
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Old 09-17-2019, 05:33 AM   #34
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Torque specs are there for a reason. Wheels/tires get “pounded” on the road and therefore vibrated. Vibration will loosen nut/bolts.
Torque is specified so the nut will stay tight. Also, torque is easily measured, but, what the engineer really wants to achieve is a certain amount of bolt stretch which is not so easily measured. This is not dissimilar from a rubber band holding something tight. If not stretched enough, it falls off; if too tight, the band breaks.
If the nut is over-torqued, the bolt will be over stretched and probably exceed the elastic limit of the stud metal. The prior posts which mention stud replacement are really more than a suggestion and for a reason.
A few years ago when full timing, I had a flat on the road, the nuts were really tight and when I re-intalled the wheel using a calibrated torque wrench, a stud broke. So, 7 of 8 studs remaining. 50 miles later another stud broke when checking torque. 6 of 8 remaining. The factory had over torqued the wheel nuts and the studs were failing. Fortunately, there was a campground next to where the second stud broke and I replaced all 32 studs. In fact, i found a couple more cracked in the threads, when I was loosening them for replacement. After replacement, no more broken studs.
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Old 09-17-2019, 06:57 AM   #35
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To tight

When I developed quad muscle weakness my wife had to learn how to help change a flat tire. We bought Ryobi 18 v battery impact drill . Has massive torque.
The 1st time she tried the drill flew out of her hand . This drill/impact is great
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Old 09-17-2019, 08:23 AM   #36
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Both of my cargo vans have wheel lug torque specifications (144 and 177 ft-lb) which are way beyond what one might expect to address when changing a tire. I have taken to carrying an appropriate torque wrench.
Your torque values seem excessively high and odd (High numbers are normally rounded to within 5 or 10 Ft lbs). Are you sure you are not using Newton Meter? Converting your Numbers to ft lbs I get approx. 105 to 130 ft lbs.

Do follow torque recommendations, be careful of the units.

Over torquing can cause damage to studs and rims.

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Old 09-17-2019, 11:13 AM   #37
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Your torque values seem excessively high and odd (High numbers are normally rounded to within 5 or 10 Ft lbs). Are you sure you are not using Newton Meter? Converting your Numbers to ft lbs I get approx. 105 to 130 ft lbs.
Don't seem high to me at all. The lug nuts on my F-150 are torqued to 150#. Very well could have been originally NM but who really cares.
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Old 09-17-2019, 12:08 PM   #38
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I've been following the thread "are you really ready for a flat tire"?. I've checked all the pressures both car and trailer. I've made sure that I have an adequate selection of sockets and I'll be using a three-quarter inch Craftsman Ratchet handle that weighs about 15 lb along with several different extensions. I verified correct sockets. I have a pressure gauge and a small 12 volt compressor. I've got a bottle jack, platforms and two jack stands. I even went through the process to discover where on Earth is my spare tire on my Town & Country minivan. I had no idea where it was and I'm really glad that I learned the process. It's complicated and the Mickey Mouse tire that wanted 60 lb only had 20.

So you would think I'm pretty well prepared but I ran into a situation that would be absolutely horrible If you experienced it on the road. The lug nuts on the brand new trailer tires were not put on by a 900 pound gorilla, they were put on by King Kong. My 15 pound, 3/4 inch ratchet would not even begin to turn the first lug nut. So I found an old satellite dish arm and used it as a leverage extender. It's a 2-inch pipe and with 6 ft of Leverage I still couldn't move these lug nuts. So I brought my compressor over and used a fairly stout impact driver. Not a chance.

Can you imagine a flat tire on an interstate highway and you have lug nuts that are impossible to take off? Tomorrow morning I will be going to my local tire store and letting them use their professional equipment to loosen these lugs and I will hand tighten them. May I suggest that if you want to be prepared for a flat tire on the road, be very sure that your lug nuts can be removed with manual tools. Better yet, watch them when you put on tires and specify that you want them to be only enough torque to be safe but still able to be removed on the highway. This could have been a huge problem with a total blowout on a busy interstate.
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Old 09-17-2019, 03:52 PM   #39
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Tip

Before you need it, make sure your lug wrench is the exact size to fit your lug nuts. There is a difference between a 3/4 inch and a 19mm socket. I found that out the hard way after waiting 4 hours for road assistance.
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Old 09-17-2019, 04:17 PM   #40
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Your torque values seem excessively high and odd (High numbers are normally rounded to within 5 or 10 Ft lbs). Are you sure you are not using Newton Meter? Converting your Numbers to ft lbs I get approx. 105 to 130 ft lbs.

Do follow torque recommendations, be careful of the units.

Over torquing can cause damage to studs and rims.

Bob
From the 2019 Sprinter manual:

Tighten the wheel bolts or nuts evenly in the sequence indicated (1 to 6).
Specified tightening torque:
Steel wheel bolts: 177 lb-ft (240 Nm)
Wheel nuts: 133 lb-ft (180 Nm)
Alloy wheel bolts: 133 lb-ft (180 Nm)
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