Tire shop swapped in bias ply for radials -- should they replace?

[ericbnever]

I have a 2016 Rockwood A122S pop-up A-frame trailer that came with 3 ST185 80 R13 (load range D) tires (radials). I never drive > 65 mph when towing.

Summary: I asked a tire shop for the same tires (and the "R" implies radials), but they actually mounted bias ply tires (and didn't say a word about it until I noticed after bringing the tires home and I gave them a call).

Should I just live with the bias ply tires for a couple years and chalk this up to a learning experience (maybe ask to see new tires before they're mounted)? Or should I try and get them to replace the tires?

I'm not super familiar with trailer tires. It sounds like radial is better for highway/pavement driving (which is mostly what I'm doing), and it's what Forest River put on originally. But it also sounds like bias ply used to be the standard and, while they don't handle as well, they're probably acceptable.

It irks me that they changed the tire construction without telling me (they should have noticed that the old tires were different). When I called after getting home, they claimed bias ply was all they had readily available, but they didn't mention that when I initially called to schedule the replacement. Maybe this is standard operating procedure for tire shops (though I doubt it)?

But on the other hand, it would be easier to just use these tires and avoid this shop from now on.

I guess I'm not sure how outraged I should be (if at all

Curious to hear others' thoughts.

[14apex]

An old friend used to compare everything positive to "radial tires".....would often say "it's just like radial tires, all plus and no negatives!". Frankly, I don't know if there's a significant difference in performance and wear for the trailer. That said, however, I'd have to feel that it was somehow resolved with the tire shop if I felt that there was clear communication on what I wanted, a pledge by the shop to supply and install what I wanted, and a "feeling" that the shop was less than honest RE the transaction. On the other hand, if I'd simply dropped the trailer off with prior communication on the vague side requesting that "the tires be replaced", I'd probably seek and accept assurance that the tires are OK and chalk it up to being sure of specific communication "next time".

[Fluffywhitedogs]

Originally Posted by ericbnever

I have a 2016 Rockwood A122S pop-up A-frame trailer that came with 3 ST185 80 R13 (load range D) tires (radials). I never drive > 65 mph when towing.



Summary: I asked a tire shop for the same tires (and the "R" implies radials), but they actually mounted bias ply tires (and didn't say a word about it until I noticed after bringing the tires home and I gave them a call).



Should I just live with the bias ply tires for a couple years and chalk this up to a learning experience (maybe ask to see new tires before they're mounted)? Or should I try and get them to replace the tires?



I'm not super familiar with trailer tires. It sounds like radial is better for highway/pavement driving (which is mostly what I'm doing), and it's what Forest River put on originally. But it also sounds like bias ply used to be the standard and, while they don't handle as well, they're probably acceptable.



It irks me that they changed the tire construction without telling me (they should have noticed that the old tires were different). When I called after getting home, they claimed bias ply was all they had readily available, but they didn't mention that when I initially called to schedule the replacement. Maybe this is standard operating procedure for tire shops (though I doubt it)?



But on the other hand, it would be easier to just use these tires and avoid this shop from now on.



I guess I'm not sure how outraged I should be (if at all



Curious to hear others' thoughts.

I actually had the same thing happen. My mechanic ordered the wrong ones and I didn’t notice. I took 1 long trip (Ontario to south central Tennessee). A couple days after I got home I walked by my trailer and noticed this. [emoji15]. I had a horseshoe somewhere, it could’ve been a blowout for sure!
I would have them changed!

[TitanMike]

If you didn't get what you requested and the mistake was theirs, don't just accept it.

Bias ply tires have greater rollong resistance and usually yield greater mileage.

You got inferior tires.

[wmtire]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

If you didn't get what you requested and the mistake was theirs, don't just accept it.

Bias ply tires have greater rollong resistance and usually yield greater mileage.

You got inferior tires.

Mike, you sure that's not a typo in red.

[ericbnever]

Just for added context, when I called the first time I literally read off the tire description ("ST185 80 R13, load range D"), but I only asked them to confirm the load range (because a different tire shop assumed "C" and then said they didn't carry "D" when I corrected them). Next time, obviously, I'll confirm every single part of the description.

I think the most obnoxious part is that they didn't admit they made a mistake or offer a solution; they just kind of said "well, we only had bias ply available, and you know it's just a stronger tire anyway" and then they seemed like they were trying to get me to go away by saying radials cost more, they'd have to come from outside the state so it could take a while, there'd be an shipping charge (up to $25 per tire).

I think it's just a really sloppily run shop, but that's kind of the tricky part -- do I want them near my wheels again?

Edit: One more clarification: I think they probably charged me the correct amount for the tire they gave me ($76/tire, plus labor/fees), so I don't think I was literally ripped off; I just didn't get what I asked for.

[wmtire]

Originally Posted by ericbnever

Just for added context, when I called the first time I literally read off the tire description ("ST185 80 R13, load range D"), but I only asked them to confirm the load range (because a different tire shop assumed "C" and then said they didn't carry "D" when I corrected them). Next time, obviously, I'll confirm every single part of the description.

I think the most obnoxious part is that they didn't admit they made a mistake or offer a solution; they just kind of said "well, we only had bias ply available, and you know it's just a stronger tire anyway" and then they seemed like they were trying to get me to go away by saying radials cost more, they'd have to come from outside the state so it could take a while, there'd be an shipping charge (up to $25 per tire).

I think it's just a really sloppily run shop, but that's kind of the tricky part -- do I want them near my wheels again?

If someone is not really trained or experienced in this, they can get the letters confused.

In a trailer tire size like yours for example, it could be 185/80R13 LR D where the R in the tire size does mean radial construction type.

However they make a non radial tire (bias aka diagonal) where the tire size can be 185/80B13 LR D (for bias construction) or 185/80D13 LR D (for diagonal construction) Bias and Diagonal mean the same thing as far as body plies, but you will more likely see the D for diagonal in the tire size nowadays more than the B for bias.

It's this D in the tire size that gets a lot of people confused, thinking it's actually a Load Range D, when it's not.

[ericbnever]

Originally Posted by wmtire

It's this D in the tire size that gets a lot of people confused, thinking it's actually a Load Range D, when it's not.

Funny you should mention that. When I picked up the tires I saw that "D" and thought "oh, maybe they put the load range in the middle for some reason" -- it wasn't until I got home and looked it up that I realized "D" was for "diagonal".

I actually even mentioned it to the guy at the shop, but I don't remember what his response was (other than it definitely wasn't "that means bias ply. That's what you wanted, right? If not, we'll order the correct tires."

[wmtire]

Originally Posted by ericbnever

I actually even mentioned it to the guy at the shop, but I don't remember what his response was (other than it definitely wasn't "that means bias ply.

Maybe you could direct this uninformed person to Bridgestones website:


Construction
After the section width comes a letter that indicates the type of internal construction: 33X12.50R17LT 120Q.
This is the same as is found in the metric sizing systems.
There are two types of construction that you may see on the sidewall of a tire:

• R – Radial
• D or “B” or “-“ – Diagonal or Bias Ply

Radial tires are the most common tires on the road in the United States today; thus “R” will usually be shown in the tire size designation. Radial construction means the tire’s internal ply cords are oriented in a radial direction, from one bead over to the other, essentially perpendicular to the direction of rotation.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by wmtire

Mike, you sure that's not a typo in red.

Ooops. Not as much a typo as a brain fart. Mind was stuck on radials and hadn't totally shifted gears.

Looks like i get to sweep up the shop at closing tonight

[Reverse_snowbird]

Note to self..... Never ask the tire shop to replace with the same type tires.

Usually, the tire shop will give you an invoice with the complete information on the tires to sign before they will do the work. It's too late now, but we usually go online to the tire maker and see what options are available for tires.
With small trailers, there aren't a lot of options, but you should have been able to get a radial. Radials are suppose to have a smoother ride, less sway and bounce and a longer life.

[Fluffywhitedogs]

Originally Posted by Reverse_snowbird

Note to self..... Never ask the tire shop to replace with the same type tires.



Usually, the tire shop will give you an invoice with the complete information on the tires to sign before they will do the work. It's too late now, but we usually go online to the tire maker and see what options are available for tires.

With small trailers, there aren't a lot of options, but you should have been able to get a radial. Radials are suppose to have a smoother ride, less sway and bounce and a longer life.

Not much choice, but Carlisle makes one.

[dougc905]

Originally Posted by ericbnever

"well, we only had bias ply available, and you know it's just a stronger tire anyway"

It is my understanding that bias ply tires have stiffer sidewalls and this makes them ideal for trailers. The stiffer sidewall can reduce sway.


The industry went to radials because they offer stiffer tread faces with a flatter contact patch. Something has to give, thus radials have a softer sidewall to preserve or even improve ride. Cars and trucks can handle softer sidewalls through suspension tuning and the ability to steer. Trailers have neither.


However, like anything else, there are good tires and bad tires - radial or bias ply. If they installed a quality tire then you should be ok.

[ependydad]

This is totally my ignorance asking...

1, are they still trailer tires?

2, are they the same or greater carrying capacity?

[ericbnever]

Originally Posted by Reverse_snowbird

Note to self..... Never ask the tire shop to Usually, the tire shop will give you an invoice with the complete information on the tires to sign before they will do the work.

For the record: the work order I signed didn't have info on the tires and the invoice I signed and paid afterwards (before I saw the tires) said "185/80R13STC", which seems like it might have multiple mistakes.

I'm interpreting the "R" to mean radial (which I didn't get), but "STC" I'm interpreting as "ST tires with load range C" (I wanted and got ST with load range D).

Just seems like very sloppy work on their part, and my lesson is to just ask to see the new tires (or at least a complete description) prior to installation. I naively thought "it's a tire shop, they'll let me know if they notice a difference between what they're installing and what I had previously".

[ericbnever]

Originally Posted by ependydad

This is totally my ignorance asking...

1, are they still trailer tires?

2, are they the same or greater carrying capacity?

Yeah, they are "ST" (special trailer) tires with load range D (the sidewall indicates something like 1700 lbs capacity, which is roughly the same as my old tires).

The only issue is the construction (since it's different from what I had, different from what I asked for, different from what's on the invoice, and different from my spare tire).

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by dougc905

It is my understanding that bias ply tires have stiffer sidewalls and this makes them ideal for trailers. The stiffer sidewall can reduce sway.

Stiffer sidewalls can also increase sway caused by ruts in the road caused by heavy truck wear. The radial plys allow the tread to work more independently from the rest of the tire and let the towed vehicle track better.

Originally Posted by dougc905

The industry went to radials because they offer stiffer tread faces with a flatter contact patch. Something has to give, thus radials have a softer sidewall to preserve or even improve ride. Cars and trucks can handle softer sidewalls through suspension tuning and the ability to steer. Trailers have neither.

The softer sidewall in a radial is purely a result of the radial plies. In bias ply tires the plies cross at an angle in the sidewall and under-tread that makes it stiff.

Bias ply tires exist in the small auto/light truck/trailer market because they are cheaper to manufacture. They are still used in giant tires but due to the increased rolling resistance they are slowly joining the dinosaurs as it pertains to highway use.

As for ST trailer tires and sidewalls, the Goodyear Endurance has a sidewall that would make the average bias ply ST trailer tire blush with envy. It's for those who like to hit curbs when entering gas stations, etc.

[rsdata]

I suspect that their reply " readily available" was in fact a reference that 13 inch tires are pretty rare these days.

DId I miss the part where you gave a brand name for your new tires?

[Bob414]

You also need to check the tire manufacture date. A lot more trailer tires die of old age, than thread wear.

Bob

[ericbnever]

Originally Posted by Bob414

You also need to check the tire manufacture date. A lot more trailer tires die of old age, than thread wear.

Bob

Thanks, yes, I did check that (after they gave me back my wheels). They were manufactured in mid-2020, which seems reasonable. The old ones were from 2014, which prompted me to kick off this whole debacle.