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Old 08-12-2019, 08:21 PM   #41
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The 80% rule is a nice to have cushion, both for comfort and general piece of mind. That said, I would bet every manufacturer builds a safety margin into their towing and cargo capacities, just like working load versus breaking strength ratings of a line or rope (which is often double or more). No manufacturer is going to give a 3500 lb towing capacity rating if 3501 lbs is going to suddenly cause failure. If the manufacturer states 3500 lbs, then you can tow 3500 lbs not 80% of 3500. That said, I certainly want and have always had added capacity for myself and never advocate exceeding ratings at all, but people make it sound like once you hit the rated capacity 5 more pounds will make it self destruct.
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Old 08-12-2019, 08:26 PM   #42
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The 80% rule is a nice to have cushion, both for comfort and general piece of mind. That said, I would bet every manufacturer builds a safety margin into their towing and cargo capacities, just like working load versus breaking strength ratings of a line or rope (which is often double or more). No manufacturer is going to give a 3500 lb towing capacity rating if 3501 lbs is going to suddenly cause failure. If the manufacturer states 3500 lbs, then you can tow 3500 lbs not 80% of 3500. That said, I certainly want and have always had added capacity for myself and never advocate exceeding ratings at all, but people make it sound like once you hit the rated capacity 5 more pounds will make it self destruct.
100% Agree. Manufacturers spent millions on design. They DON'T want to be out of the running with their competition and they also want to make sure they don't get bad press.

Having said that I also wouldn't be surprised at all if they bank on less than 10% - 20% of your miles driven being at that max capacity. Everyone plays numbers games.
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Old 08-13-2019, 02:32 PM   #43
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Add more suspension support to rear of TV

I have an early Sienna with a pop-up.You have to consider the total weight capacity of TV and Pop-up. I don't overload the tongue weight or the TV weight, but I have added better shocks all the way around and replaced the rear rubber stops with increased size units. This has increased rear stability and I don't have any sway.
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Old 08-13-2019, 08:27 PM   #44
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It seems there are plenty of opinions, facts, figures and controversy from my original post about towing with my minivan. I guess it is up to me to decide how I want to deal with it. I appreciate the passion and knowledge many of you have passed along on the subject. I don't have the PUP yet, but am scheduled to pick it up along with an orientation this weekend at the dealership. I will definitely discuss the towing issue with the tech person. His input will be considered as well. Unfortunately, I am tied up with jury duty until early September and won't be able to get the camper out until Labor Day at the earliest for a short trip. I will let you know how it goes. In the future I will probably have some other questions about my PUP and I look forward to learning more from this forum as I go along.
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Old 08-14-2019, 11:20 AM   #45
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Sure, the more tow power you've got, the better. And maybe mini vans don't make the best tow vehicle. But when it's all you got and your numbers are within the manufacturers towing and payload limits (and I have an extended warranty!), I'll carry on. I've towed it to 3 locations so far. Two to 2.5 hrs away. Average speed 65 mph. No swaying. No weird bouncing etc. One locale had a very steep incline up to the park entrance. We made it!

My 2015 Dodge Grand Caravan SXT Plus came with the Chrysler tow package installed which includes beefed up rear suspension, a factory wiring harness, trailer brake controller, etc., etc. The literature says this...

"Caravan Trailer Tow Capacity: The trailer tow capacity of all models of Caravan and T&C is a Max. of 3600 lbs. max tongue weight 360 lbs. It breaks down as follows: 3600lb + 2 persons + 50 lbs. luggage ea., 3350lbs + 3-5 people +50lbs luggage ea, 3000lbs + 6-7 people + 50 lbs luggage ea. (Single person weight = 150lbs. luggage est 50lbs/person or occupant and luggage weight of 200 lbs). Transmission fluid change if towing is 104k. The trailer tow package includes the hitch, wiring and rear load leveling shocks. All models include engine oil cooler, sufficient cooling and sufficient alternator capacity to handle a trailer. Mopar trailer harness is required to prevent damage to the vehicle computer systems."

As I noted previously, my 2514g has an unloaded weight of 2700 lbs and a 600 lb cargo limit (3300 lbs total). 300 lb tongue weight. I for sure don't have 600 lbs of cargo loaded in the pup. 300 lbs maybe. Probably less. But I'll over estimate it at 300. So the gvw of our pup with cargo is 3000 lbs.

Theres me and dw in the van. Based on the dodge Caravan numbers above, I can tow 3000 lbs and have 6-7 people and their luggage in the van, which we don't. That'd be maxing out the limits. So, since there's only 2 of us, the van payload limit with the 2 of us in it would be approx 1000 lbs (5 people at 150 lbs each + their luggage at 50lbs a piece=1000 lbs). I have maybe 300 lbs of gear in the van Distributed as evenly as possible over the whole rear cargo area (all rear seats are down) so as not to add to the tongue weight.

Anyway, I think I just researched and wrote all that to make me feel better about towing with a mini van!! It worked!!
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Old 08-30-2019, 10:21 AM   #46
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The one obvious limitation is your hitch weight. With 297lbs dry hitch weight and an additional 20lbs for each full propane tank and the weight of the battery you are already exceeding your max tongue weight, through in cargo and residual water left in the hot water heater and it's not even close assuming the max tongue weight is 350lbs.
As you unit ships from the factory, the ratio of weight to tongue weight is 11%. Notice where most of the storage is in this unit? IT's at or near the front, nearly all of it north of the axel and it's designed that way for a reason. To add tongue weight.
So let's assume you add 300lbs of cargo, that's another 33lbs minimum and most likely more and you re already approaching or exceeding your max tongue weight, throw in the propane and battery and it's not even close.
You could add a weight distribution hitch (and add more weight to the tongue weight), and reduce the overall tongue weight as it shifts some of the weight back onto the trailer axel, they are designed to distribute weight correctly between the front and rear axles of the tow vehicle, not a licence to exceed your tongue weight ratings. (Some makes and models do increase the tongue weight rating with a weight distribution hitch.)
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Old 08-30-2019, 10:27 AM   #47
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The one obvious limitation is your hitch weight. With 297lbs dry hitch weight and an additional 20lbs for each full propane tank and the weight of the battery you are already exceeding your max tongue weight, through in cargo and residual water left in the hot water heater and it's not even close assuming the max tongue weight is 350lbs.
As you unit ships from the factory, the ratio of weight to tongue weight is 11%. Notice where most of the storage is in this unit? IT's at or near the front, nearly all of it north of the axel and it's designed that way for a reason. To add tongue weight.
So let's assume you add 300lbs of cargo, that's another 33lbs minimum and most likely more and you re already approaching or exceeding your max tongue weight, throw in the propane and battery and it's not even close.
You could add a weight distribution hitch (and add more weight to the tongue weight), and reduce the overall tongue weight as it shifts some of the weight back onto the trailer axel, they are designed to distribute weight correctly between the front and rear axles of the tow vehicle, not a licence to exceed your tongue weight ratings. (Some makes and models do increase the tongue weight rating with a weight distribution hitch.)
The receiver should have a mark somewhere indicating max tongue weight. Every one I have read that includes a rating for WDH increases the max tongue weight 100+ lbs over the lower, no WDH value.
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Old 08-30-2019, 10:47 AM   #48
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The receiver should have a mark somewhere indicating max tongue weight. Every one I have read that includes a rating for WDH increases the max tongue weight 100+ lbs over the lower, no WDH value.
The tongue weight rating is set by the manufacturer, not the rating of the receiver, one has nothing to do with the other.
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Old 08-30-2019, 11:00 AM   #49
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The tongue weight rating is set by the manufacturer, not the rating of the receiver, one has nothing to do with the other.
Yes, I refer to the manufacturer of the receiver and the sticker THEY put on it.

I have a sticker on the underside of my ford factory receiver hitch.

There is one on the aftermarket installed hitch on my wifes van.

The sticker indicates max tongue weight with and without WDH.

I forgot this was an argumentative thread........ At any rate... the point being that when a WDH hitch is used and the equipment states ratings for each EITHER in the manual or on a sticker, with WDH is a higher max tongue.

Everyone is so quick to poke holes without much fact to back it up. Here is my fact:

Click image for larger version

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I can't find a "Max Tongue Weight" in my either of my vehicles owners manual!? Instead I find max axle weights on the vehicle itself because it doesn't really matter what put the weight on the axle, a trailer tongue or heavy cargo.....
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Old 08-30-2019, 11:20 AM   #50
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Yes, I refer to the manufacturer of the receiver and the sticker THEY put on it.

I have a sticker on the underside of my ford factory receiver hitch.

There is one on the aftermarket installed hitch on my wifes van.

The sticker indicates max tongue weight with and without WDH.

I forgot this was an argumentative thread........ At any rate... the point being that when a WDH hitch is used and the equipment states ratings for each EITHER in the manual or on a sticker, with WDH is a higher max tongue.

Everyone is so quick to poke holes without much fact to back it up. Here is my FACT:

Attachment 213824

I can't find a "Max Tongue Weight" in my either of my vehicles owners manual!? Instead I find max axle weights because it doesn't really matter what put the weight on the axle, a trailer tongue or heavy cargo.....
Again, it's the hitch rating. Perhaps you might want to reread the sentence underneath.
The 'fact' is his Sienna comes with a class 3 receiver, which is rated for a max 6000lbs GTW and max 600lbs tongue weight, without a weight distribution hitch. It doesn't mean his Sienna is capable of either.
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Old 08-30-2019, 11:27 AM   #51
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Again, it's the hitch rating. Perhaps you might want to reread the sentence underneath.
The 'fact' is his Sienna comes with a class 3 receiver, which is rated for a max 6000lbs GTW and max 600lbs tongue weight, without a weight distribution hitch. It doesn't mean his Sienna is capable of either.
your post is non sequitur....

You said the "receiver" doesn't set the max tongue weight rather the manufacturer does. The receiver hitch most certainly does because it's manufacturer knows the rating for welds/mechanical connections they made.

I did not state that the hitch could have a higher rating than the max GVRW of the vehicle could handle and you should go with that.
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