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Old 10-01-2018, 05:22 AM   #1
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Talking Trading up to High Wall Tent Trailer?

Hello all!

Recently we've been considering moving from our regular style pop up (2014 Flagstaff MAC 228) to a High Wall series. (Like a Rockwood HW276 or Flagstaff HW27ks)

Can anyone tell me what the drastic differences between a regular pop up and a high wall is other than the addition of the black/grey water systems and the slide out?

Is there significant other differences?

Anyone else do this recently and can share their experiences?

As always, any feedback is appreciated! Thanks guys!
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Old 10-01-2018, 02:08 PM   #2
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I can say the biggest difference is the higher profile when towing and the extra weight having the higher counter tops is nice the bathroom is a plus we have the Rockwood version with the outdoor kitchen which we like just make sure your tow vehicle can pull it
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Old 10-01-2018, 02:22 PM   #3
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Pros: Higher counters, bigger sink, bit bigger fridge that has a small freezer, no drop down galley, oven (yes we use ours). Liked built in stove. I think they are easier to set up for quick overnight stops - we did it on a two week trip from MD to yellowstone and back (pull in, level, connect services, raise roof, pull out beds and dinette, set the door and done. We left the beds made, kitchen is ready to cook).

Cons: heavier, taller, awning is a pain to use (have to drop the roof to roll it up).

We totally enjoyed our highwall the 6 years we had it before going hybrid.
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Old 10-02-2018, 12:05 AM   #4
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I just downgraded from a 2012 Jayco Jay Flight 26BH. I previously had pop ups.

I was eye balling 3 campers. The Freedom 2318G, the Premier 2716G, and the HW276.

I ended up buy the Premier 2716G. I got a better deal than the 2318G and the 2716G had everything I wanted that I would had to add with the 2318G.

While the HW276 had a double basin sink, a larger refrigerator w/freezer, an oven, and microwave, it had some negatives I didn't like. The much taller stance may make it difficult to fit through some 7' garage doors. Also the fact it has a standard toilet with a small 12 gallon black tank.

Having the TT, the black tank gets plugged all the time even while letting it fill up completely before draining, and flushing with a lot of water. Also the sensors are never accurate. When I drain at the dump station, I always have to look down the toilet to see where the real level is and if it's plugged again. Hard to do if the camper is folded down at the dump station. A cassette is much easier to clean and drain.

While I haven't dealt with it, I have seen the setup of the hard wall bathroom and door and it's something I'd like to avoid. There's still little privacy since there's a gap between the bathroom walls and the tent walls. I just prefer the simplicity of using the 2 curtains, the privacy curtain in conjunction with the shower curtain.

Then there's the small L shaped bench seat. I wanted a longer bench seat or sofa that would be more comfortable and seat all of us to watch a movie at night.

The HW277 wasn't a consideration since it had only a dinette, and the HW296 is just way to big. If I was going that route, I'd just go back to another travel trailer.

Just my reasons. For what it's worth, my dealer did say that the Rockwood Premier 2716G is his best selling Pop Up.
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Old 10-02-2018, 10:58 AM   #5
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Cool. We had to wait 4 months once we ordered ours. I liked the 2318 till I sat on the couch. Not comfortable. The cartridge black tank is east to clean and empty. Good choice! I like that they have added the roof racks on the new ones. Once ours is out of warranty I will be adding those.
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Old 10-02-2018, 11:19 AM   #6
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Cool. We had to wait 4 months once we ordered ours. I liked the 2318 till I sat on the couch. Not comfortable. The cartridge black tank is east to clean and empty. Good choice! I like that they have added the roof racks on the new ones. Once ours is out of warranty I will be adding those.
Which model did you end up getting? Otherwise happy with it too?
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Old 10-02-2018, 11:59 AM   #7
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Which model did you end up getting? Otherwise happy with it too?
A 2017 2716G and Love it!
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Old 10-02-2018, 12:21 PM   #8
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A 2017 2716G and Love it!
Does yours have the dual refrigerators? I saw one that had two and thought that concept was nice! We're looking into the HW276 or HW277. Unfortunately, the 2716G isn't that much of a difference between what we have now...

Although, I did look into that model you have more... It does seem like it has a lot of storage, which is one thing we're stressing a lot for our next model. We just have been set dead on a HW so we could get a "real" bathroom set up with tanks rather than the tiny cassette...
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Old 10-02-2018, 12:39 PM   #9
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We have the dual fridge. We wanted a HW until we sat in them all. The 2716 has the largest U dinette and a well positioned couch. I have yet to see a pop up that makes us regret our decision. 3000 miles on it and at least 30 nights and we still enjoy the heck out of it.
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Old 10-02-2018, 12:42 PM   #10
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There is also a lot of places to put things once you push in all of the slides. We have plenty of storage for the 3 of us. Our tow vehicle isnt packed full of stuff anymore when we go camping.
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Old 10-02-2018, 03:05 PM   #11
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Why not also look at a hybrid while you are at it?

Yes it is taller, but I believe the gas mileage hit will be nearly the same... The difference between my popup MPG and my 19 foot hybrid trailer was about 2 MPG...

a fully loaded 183 model will have 3 tip-out bunks and weigh 4800# loaded... fridge is bigger, and setup/teardown is less... plus a bit more interior space. Not sure about outdoor kitchens on the newer models... but I luv my 13 foot wide awning that opens/closes with the touch of a button.
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Old 10-02-2018, 04:02 PM   #12
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Why not also look at a hybrid while you are at it?

Yes it is taller, but I believe the gas mileage hit will be nearly the same... The difference between my popup MPG and my 19 foot hybrid trailer was about 2 MPG...

i had a much harder hit on gas mileage when i went to the hybrid- the difference for me between the two was 5 mpg. that makes a huge difference in how long a tank of gas lasts. but we love our hybrid - it just goes with the territory.
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Old 10-02-2018, 05:06 PM   #13
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i had a much harder hit on gas mileage when i went to the hybrid- the difference for me between the two was 5 mpg.
I guess it depends on the TV... I was towing 2200# popup with a Toyota Landcruiser (14.5mpg not towing) and getting about 10.5mpg... when I went with ~4500# hybrid that dropped to 8+mpg...

of course tailwinds will help and head winds will hurt much more with the taller hybrid...

I guess I am glad I traded up from an hour long setup/tear down on my popup to now something like 15 minutes on the hybrid including push-button awning deployment... Of course hard side trailer owners laugh when you talk about setup/tear down times...
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Old 10-02-2018, 07:19 PM   #14
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Hello all!

Recently we've been considering moving from our regular style pop up (2014 Flagstaff MAC 228) to a High Wall series. (Like a Rockwood HW276 or Flagstaff HW27ks)

<<SNIP>>
Some of this will repeat others' comments:

Advantages:
  • Standard height countertops.
  • Ample countertops.
  • Hard wall bathroom.
  • No monkey-motion on the sink...and high-rise sink faucet.
  • 3-burner stove with oven.
  • Fridge with freezer. It ain't much of a fridge, but the freezer is awesome. It can hold two big bags of frozen french fries and two bags of frozen vegetables....and it works great.
  • It uses the same "tent canvas" as the regular PUP so the ceiling height is soaring...maybe 7'6". As you'll see later, a huge boon for me.
  • You kinda blew off the slide. The slide is AMAZING. Two people can pass in the "hall", and someone can be cooking and a second person can walk around them. It's truly spacious, and the feeling of space is amazing. There are windows on 3 sides of the slide, too. Perfect for just right ventilation with some preservation of privacy. ALWAYS REMEMBER to close the slide last...to protect the canvas from the bed slides.

Disadvantages:
  • The bed is WAAAAYYYY up in the air. I bought Rubbermaid Stairs and used a jig saw to cut them to fit over the tiny step up to the bed. One on either end. They transport well nested and upside down in the shower...and hold all the bathroom stuff in the top step.
  • You MUST have a ladder. This one just barely fits in the entryway around the slide when folded. With a ladder you can put away the awning and you can reach the top of the flaps that seal over the lift poles and the sewer vent. You can also reach the roof to inspect caulking and so on (when the camper is folded).
  • The camper is heavier and taller when towing. I could see over my old Viking PUP when towing, but I can't see over this baby, even from the seat of my 4x4 RAM 1500.
  • A roof rack on the camper will be WAAAYYY up there. Loading a canoe or kayak will likely require two people tall enough to reach.
  • Much more interior volume to heat and cool...not a big deal but worth mentioning.
  • On uneven terrain, when outside, the beds can be pretty far up in the sky and hard to reach to pull out and push back in. When closing up, I often get them started from inside the camper and finish from outside. Opening is easier even on tip-toes.
I'll also mention that all those "height complaints" are coming from someone who is 6'6" tall and 250#. I still struggle to reach sometimes.

Neutral - neither good or bad, but different:
  • Black tank vs. cassette? My wife and I have gone as many as 5 days on the 12 gallon black tank, but if it gets full, your options are limited. Choices are dump or dump. With a cassette, you can pull the cassette and walk or drive to a pit toilet and dump, but you'll have to do that more often, because cassettes hold about 6 gallons.
  • Gray tank - insignificant. Treat the gray water like the gray water from your sink in a standard PUP. I keep a 5 gallon bucket on hand to transport the gray water...the bucket you already have will work. But you will need an adapter and longer hose to reach the bucket from the under-trailer gray-water dump pipe. And 12 gallons ain't much, as they say. You'll need to dump often or gray water will flood the floor of the shower.
  • Ground clearance. On your MAC, the stair is right next to the axle, and it's a single stair that tucks away nicely. Many or all in this HW series have a substantial separation between the axle and the double entry steps - about 3 or 4' ahead of the axle. The double step really hangs down in harm's way. This is a problem if you boondock, go over curbs or rocks, go thru sharp dips or over steep crests. When the trailer and TV scissor at the hitch ball, the stairs will plummet toward the ground. I dragged my steps many times, so much so that I carried a 6 pound sledge hammer to straighten them out. Needless to say, this isn't good for the stairs. I finally bit the bullet and installed a lift kit. I'd call the lift kit a must have if you encounter any "terrain" whatsoever. Get the dealer to install it as part of the package...and DON'T FORGET THE LADDER!
  • In fairness, if you're height challenged (e.g. short), the lifted camper would make tucking the canvas when folding a real bitch. My wife is 5'0" and she does the "under-bed" work, but she can't tuck canvas unless we are on a side-slope, and then only on the uphill side.
    If your favorite spot is on the shores of a lake, as our is, it's likely the site has a significant side slope. We often have to dig a hole for the "uphill wheel" to drop into and use all our leveling wedge capacity on the downhill wheel...it's steep. Your curb side will be pointed at the water, and that side's going to really be up in the air. On a lifted camper that's up on 4" or more of blocks to get it level, you'll be using the ladder just to tuck canvas, and that would be a real pain in the *@@!
  • Your TV may be tall, but with with the lift kit installed on the trailer, the ball will be way up there. You'll need to 'flip' a 2" to 5" ball drop mount upside down to get the trailer to ride level. I have air bags, and with those inflated to compensate for the load in the bed and the tongue weight, my 2" drop mount is flipped to be a lift mount for the ball...on my 4X4 which is already up there.

Which to pick? I love the outdoor kitchen on our HW-277, but it eats some interior storage. To be honest the sink is the bomb. The stove, not so much...it doesn't like wind. But did I mention that I love the outside sink? Definitely worth the price of admission.

Skip the grill. Buy a real grill like a Weber or Coleman and adapt it to run on house propane (I can show you how....I've posted instructions with pix.) The thing they sell you with the camper is, how do they say it in French? "Junque!!." Don't waste your money.

One quirk that may have been resolved by now. My 2014 has a poor design/execution choice. On the A-frame, where a second battery could (and should) go, they stupidly ran the propane hose from the tanks thru that space rather than UNDER that space. My response to that is in the image below. Absolutely stupid and uncalled for, but it could be fixed with about $30 in parts and a couple hours worth of work. I repeat the image below!

Lastly, I don't know if your current rig has the electric winch lift for the roof. If so, you already know about them. If not, they aren't all they're cracked up to be. They are trouble-prone, and the limit switch, in particular, is a joke. Mine failed in about a year, so I bypassed it and just pay attention.

Would I ever go back to a "low-rider"? Never. We call our HW-277 the "Tent Mahal." It makes our old PUP look like a pup-tent!

P.S. If you go for a new rig, ask me about solar. We can boondock indefinitely and never run out of battery...even though I have just one! Solar is well beyond awesome...if done right. Done right means about $200 and a day's work. But that's for another book-length diatribe.

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Old 10-02-2018, 07:21 PM   #15
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So it would seem but it appears that even the gas trucks only get 8 mpg with the taller campers. That seems to be the average all around.
The worst we get is 8 mpg towing the hybrid. We got around 13 mpg with our 3800 lb high wall. Not towing, I get 17-18 City but 23 highway. We tow with a V8 Durango. And yes winds do make a difference.
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Old 10-02-2018, 07:26 PM   #16
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Why not also look at a hybrid while you are at it?

Yes it is taller, but I believe the gas mileage hit will be nearly the same... The difference between my popup MPG and my 19 foot hybrid trailer was about 2 MPG...

a fully loaded 183 model will have 3 tip-out bunks and weigh 4800# loaded... fridge is bigger, and setup/teardown is less... plus a bit more interior space. Not sure about outdoor kitchens on the newer models... but I luv my 13 foot wide awning that opens/closes with the touch of a button.
X2. Hell, X10!
For all my love of my HW, we are now in the market for a hard-side.
I'm almost 70, and the setup/teardown with a PUP, along with:
1) having to pack tons of stuff "outside" the camper because there is so little room inside;
2) having to move all the food into the TV overnight to keep from having bears as guests in the camper;
3) and having to load and unload every damned thing like chairs, generator, and so on into the TV;
4) and what manner of torture is a bag awning!!!???
we are ready for something that's far more ready to roll and far less demanding to setup when we arrive.

Hell make it X20!
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Old 10-02-2018, 07:44 PM   #17
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We had a HW277. Turns out that the fridge was directly across from the door so starting the fridge up and loading it was a breeze. Many models you have to raise the roof and move the slide to get to it. First upgrade though was D rated tires from khumo.
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Old 10-02-2018, 09:24 PM   #18
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I had a 2013 HW277 and the best things about that camper were top down fridge access and the amazing outside kitchen. The wife's biggest complaints we're having to climb up into bed and the lack of a couch. We could get about 14MPG (hand calculated) towing the HW277, we now have a Roo 19 and get closer to 10-11 MPG.

Upgraded to the roo for a better bathroom, easier setup, and a couch. I miss the outdoor kitchen and easy towing but love our Roo 19!
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Old 10-03-2018, 05:22 AM   #19
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Why not also look at a hybrid while you are at it?

Yes it is taller, but I believe the gas mileage hit will be nearly the same... The difference between my popup MPG and my 19 foot hybrid trailer was about 2 MPG...

a fully loaded 183 model will have 3 tip-out bunks and weigh 4800# loaded... fridge is bigger, and setup/teardown is less... plus a bit more interior space. Not sure about outdoor kitchens on the newer models... but I luv my 13 foot wide awning that opens/closes with the touch of a button.
We do like the hybrid campers - eventually down the road we would love to end up in one of them. For now though, that's just not in the cards. (Would need a bigger tow vehicle, along with somewhere to store since the size difference is so much bigger.)

In terms of MPG, I drive a Jeep... Not something I really pay attention to anymore.
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Old 10-03-2018, 02:38 PM   #20
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There is also a lot of places to put things once you push in all of the slides. We have plenty of storage for the 3 of us. Our tow vehicle isnt packed full of stuff anymore when we go camping.
Your right! I was back in the area by my dealer, so I stopped in and looked at it some more. There's a lot more storage than I originally was thinking. While nothing, not even most travel trailers, comes close to the 26BH in storage, this 2716G has a lot of storage. I think I'll be able to get almost everything in the camper and even be able to put bikes on the roof.

I did check out closer the HW277, and it's refrigerators freezer. That was the only positive of the high walls to me, that they had a freezer. BUT after opening it, it's very shallow and wouldn't even fit a normal size TV dinner, let alone a pizza. It wouldn't even hold a box of frozen hamburgers without repackaging them to squeeze them in. I now have absolutely no regrets as I'm ecstatic about my decision to go with the 2716G over all else

I did check out the huge gap between the hard wall bathroom and tent wall. It kills any privacy. I guess you can stuff the shower curtain in the gap, then you'd have more privacy.

I will be buying brown shower curtains for the bathroom privacy curtain and the shower curtain. Just as in 2005, those white curtains are see through and don't provide any privacy either.
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