Help me with my new Devil/Angel dog

[dkb74]

Originally Posted by missing75

I will try your leash/game suggestion this campout weekend, but she is so friendly, she probably won't react. We'll see.

I'm curious to know if it's your absence that triggers it, or just any person. So try different people, different variations.

[Sargent's Fox Hole]

Originally Posted by dkb74

I'm curious to know if it's your absence that triggers it, or just any person. So try different people, different variations.

I have only had her 2 1/2 weeks and she came from a house with 3 adults, 4 other dogs, and kids, so she was probably NEVER alone. So I think that having NO human around, is what triggers the bad behavior.

[Batts-toy]

I just read through these 38 boxes of discussion in the thread. I haven't seen any that said 'don't allow the dog to stop your camping activities'. I would say choose a way to contain the dog when camping so the destruction cannot take place when you leave her alone, do the training as best you can in the mean time, there are a lot of excellent suggestions here for that. Whatever you do don't let this situation make you miserable or mess up your camping plans. Use the cage with the board on the bottom or leave her at a kennel but go camping. My ex wife and her husband bought a new motor home when he retired went camping one time the dog trained them right off the bat, because of the dog they haven't been camping since the motor home just sits in their yard for 2 years now. I suggest do your training around your camping plans and get the training done as well, I have seen where the dog has to be left with the trainer for initial training and re-introduced to their owner at the proper time in the training cycle, perhaps this is an option and using this approach would allow you to use a good trainer which may be further away from home than you would prefer.

[Weezer]

[QUOTE=Batts-toy;429266]I just read through these 38 boxes of discussion in the thread. I haven't seen any that said 'don't allow the dog to stop your camping activities'. I would say choose a way to contain the dog when camping so the destruction cannot take place when you leave her alone, do the training as best you can in the mean time, there are a lot of excellent suggestions here for that. Whatever you do don't let this situation make you miserable or mess up your camping plans. [QUOTE]

X eleventy and hallelujah!

I keep thinking there's *no* way I'd have the patience the OP has shown, and so tolerant of all the destruction to the camper.

Has there been any penalty for all the destruction? If not, then the dog thinks that behavior is fully acceptable. Yes, if you hurry back home for fear the dog will destroy something else, then the dog is doing exactly what a baby does when they cry and get a reaction (someone picks the baby up). So yes, that is the baby training the parents, or the dog is training his/her owner. Remember the old days when parents were advised to "just let the baby cry it out"? Sounds cruel, yes?

I'd put the pup in an all metal pet taxi, use a caribiner type lock on the door and let him/her "cry it out"....that is, *if* the dog really *must* be taken along.

God bless ya for having the patience and tolerance you've shown. The first time a newly acquired dog destroyed our RV like that he/she would be rehomed. We have two that we won't take with us camping, for two different reasons.

We have a senior cocker that is stone deaf. She's somewhat incontinent to boot. Nuff said.

We have a young Chihuahua that is far too hyper for camping. He'd caterwaul the entire time we left him in the RV, yet he's fine here at home. Won't do that to him and/or fellow campers. Sometimes he sounds just like a baby crying, seriously. I won't risk returning to the RV to find the child abuse and family service police waiting on us.

Those two are either left here at home with a sitter (weekend trips) or they are boarded for longer trips. Period.

Then we have Fred. I've described him here as a four legged commercial for Valium. He's so laid back it's unbelievable....and *he* was the one most abused before we rescued him. Go figure.

[dkb74]

Unless you catch a dog in the act of misbehaving, there is no opportunity for correction. A dog will not relate the two together. For example, pushing a dog's nose in a spot of pee on the floor, as many people will do? Simply teaches the dog to hide better next time. The best method (in my opinion) is elimination of the bad behavior by encouraging good behavior.

Punishing a dog for this is not the answer. She's obviously had some trauma in her past that has led to this.

I would not advocate giving up camping, obviously, but more time needs to be spent figuring out this problem. Or else she needs a home where she feels more secure or is not left alone.

[dkb74]

Don't get me wrong, I really want to see you succeed with this dog. I love taking my pup camping. He's the best sidekick. BUT, my two other dogs were definitely not. My oldest, she's too high strung and barks non-stop when left in the camper. Not destructive, she hasn't chewed anything since she was 4 months old. But a horrible high pitched bark you can hear a mile away. *sigh* My dog who has since passed had terrible noise fears. Would hide behind a toilet and shake. So I had to be considerate of her limitations. We had to quit agility because the noise at competitions scared her.

But I also believe in doing what's best for the dog. As I stated before, I'm a huge advocate of positive reinforcement training and that takes into consideration the thought process of the dog. Like a parent, encouraging the good we see in our children. My dogs are also my children. And dogs *want* to please. That can be used as an advantage.

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by dkb74

Unless you catch a dog in the act of misbehaving, there is no opportunity for correction. A dog will not relate the two together. For example, pushing a dog's nose in a spot of pee on the floor, as many people will do? Simply teaches the dog to hide better next time. The best method (in my opinion) is elimination of the bad behavior by encouraging good behavior.

Punishing a dog for this is not the answer. She's obviously had some trauma in her past that has led to this.

I would not advocate giving up camping, obviously, but more time needs to be spent figuring out this problem. Or else she needs a home where she feels more secure or is not left alone.

This is what I think as well. Dogs have no short term memory. You have about 5 minutes to correct a bad behavior; after that the dog has no idea what you are talking about. Always immediately reward good behavior; and never scold a dog who comes back to you. Even if it is hours later and you searched all over the neighborhood for him.

Reward him for coming back.

[mjones12]

Originally Posted by dkb74

Don't get me wrong, I really want to see you succeed with this dog. I love taking my pup camping. He's the best sidekick. BUT, my two other dogs were definitely not. My oldest, she's too high strung and barks non-stop when left in the camper. Not destructive, she hasn't chewed anything since she was 4 months old. But a horrible high pitched bark you can hear a mile away. *sigh* My dog who has since passed had terrible noise fears. Would hide behind a toilet and shake. So I had to be considerate of her limitations. We had to quit agility because the noise at competitions scared her.

But I also believe in doing what's best for the dog. As I stated before, I'm a huge advocate of positive reinforcement training and that takes into consideration the thought process of the dog. Like a parent, encouraging the good we see in our children. My dogs are also my children. And dogs *want* to please. That can be used as an advantage.

Excellent thoughts, Darlene.

[Sargent's Fox Hole]

Update on Cinnamon's progress. Our 3rd campout weekend with my camping club went fairly well, due to Mother Nature.

Instead of the small metal cage that she destroyed last weekend, I took the larger metal cage that I use in the house. Since it is larger, I put a hard plastic table top, on the cage, and it became my dinette for the weekend.

Oh, back to Mother Nature. Friday the weather was really nice, so Cinnamon and I took long walks in the great, wooded campground. And I was able to chain her outside, which she loves, for 1/2 hour intervals.

Then I would take her in and coax her into the crate with treats, and then shut her door. I would lay down on the sofa, which was right next to the crate, and watch TV. She would fall asleep easily and when she awoke, I would let her out, with much praise. That night at the campfire, she just curled up on the ground beside my chair.

But Saturday morning brought about 7 hours of continuous rain, so the long walks were postponed. I even gave up a tour of the local winery with my friends, to work on crate training, with me leaving the trailer for short periods of time. Besides, what else could I do with 7 hours of pouring rain, beside watching my hair get frizzier.

With Cinnamon in the crate, I would leave the trailer and would stand underneath an open window. That way I could hear her, and correct her if she got too agitated. I would let her whine a little and just waited to see if she calmed down on her own.

I started with 2 min.[then a break] then 5 min. [then a break], then 10 min. [then a break] etc, until she was quiet for a full 30 min. I felt that we had finally turned a corner.

There were times that I had to open the trailer door and 'shush' her, and then close the door again. When I would go into the trailer and let her out of the crate, much praise was delivered.

Being the smart female that she is, I couldn't lure her into the crate with treats anymore, so I had to put her in manually. When I got back from the 45 min. 'Pot Luck' dinner, Cinnamon had chewed on the blanket that lined her crate, but not the 'night-shirt' that had my scent on it.

I guess I'll go to Goodwill tomorrow and see if I can get a bunch of night-shirts, to 'scent up' and just put those in her crate. But the high level of agitation and stress that she goes through, is what worries me. 3 weeks til out next campout so it's "home crate training" time.

[Sargent's Fox Hole]

Forgot to show pics of Cinnamon's crate/dinette

[dkb74]

Progress!

[mjones12]

Yes, sounds like great progress. Congratulations. I know this is going to work out for the two of you.

[Batts-toy]

Awesome, camping continues and you have taken control away from her. Congrats on the progress and yes they are very smart some breeds more than others. Keep up the good work with her and I'm sure all will work out for the better.

[Sargent's Fox Hole]

I am going to change Cinnamon's name to 'Houdini'!!!!

Yesterday, I had locked Cinnamon in her crate with the TV on. When I came back after 1/2 hr, she greeted me at the door, tail wagging, and was soooo excited to see me. I said, "Uh-oh, how did you get out of your crate!"

In the living room, the crate door was still locked, and it was still positioned between a chair and table, so she couldn't have tilted it sideways, and escaped through the bottom of the crate. The mirror that I put along side the crate was still in position, with just a couple marks on the back wall where the crate had rubbed it.

How much do Nanny Cams cost, cause I would love to know how she does it. This is the 4th time she has been able to escape this crate, when it is free standing.

I had moved the crate from my office closet, [which I thought might make her feel more secure and cozy---den-like], to the living room, going on someone's suggestion that she might do better in an area that she could see more things around her, and not feel alone.

I guess I will have to put it back in my computer room closet, seems that the door jamb prevents the cage from moving too far.

Take a look at the pic and see if you can tell me how she gets out.

[Batts-toy]

She must be getting her nose under the cage enough to lift it and squeeze under then the cage falls back into place, try to put the board all the way under then run a chord (bungy or string from the wire front to back under the board to keep it directly under the cage. Question: Did she tear anything up after the escapes? if not this may be a sign of progress or the cage calmed her long enough before the escape.

[Sargent's Fox Hole]

Originally Posted by Batts-toy

She must be getting her nose under the cage enough to lift it and squeeze under then the cage falls back into place, try to put the board all the way under then run a chord (bungy or string from the wire front to back under the board to keep it directly under the cage. Question: Did she tear anything up after the escapes? if not this may be a sign of progress or the cage calmed her long enough before the escape.

Once Cinnamon, ooops, Houdini got out of the crate, there was no damage to the house.....she was probably too tired, plus I wasn't gone that long. During the day, her 'peaceful place' seems to be on my bed, so I think that is where she went after the 'prison escape'.

[Sargent's Fox Hole]

Cinnamon won't be getting into trouble anytime soon....this is her, after I brought her home yesterday, from getting 'spayed'. I know just how she feels....I felt the same way when I got 'spayed'!!!

[RichWare]

Here's a suggestion. Leave the window shades up so you pet can look out. Made the mistake of closing the shades and going for a walk, now I have molding around the door that needs replacing.

So how does one replace molding around the inside of their entrance? Does FR have a method to purchase molding that matches what you have? (I have a 2014 Stealth, should be easy to get) Any help????

[Sargent's Fox Hole]

After 10 months of trying to ease Cinnamon out of her Separation Anxiety.....her panic attacks were getting worse and more often....she was having them, even with me in the room.

And something simple, like me just stepping out the door to take the trash out....she would start panting heavily, tremble and shake, run from window to window to try to find me, and cry and whine, etc.

Even the Vet/Behaviorist said we had tried just about everything, up to and including Prozac, but nothing worked.....and that only time would tell....she might grow out of it.....might.

But her panic attacks were coming more frequently and for no apparent reason. The Vet agreed that this constant stress would eventually take it's toll on her body and organs.

So on Wednesday, we made one last trip to the Vet. Crying, I held her in my arms, told her that I loved her, one last time...and then she was gone.

"Cinnamon you are finally at peace and you will always be in my heart, little girl." ♥

[tomjsas]

So, so sorry to hear! I know how hard those decisions are as I've made the same ones over the years! You did the humane thing!