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Old 11-30-2018, 07:39 PM   #81
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Hang in there

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Originally Posted by Davidceder View Post
I need a decent day to look around. From memory I think the wire bundles run along the bottom of the main box and then enter the slide after being routed along the flexible plastic brace. I will take a much better look for chaffing and stuff before I start cutting wires. I need a dryer day. I am also still going to check out the color code and see if that can point me anywhere.
Hang in there. You are making good progress. An expert would not do it differently.

Larry
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Old 12-02-2018, 05:59 PM   #82
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Just some more info

Went to the rig today. Raining and sleet. I took some pictures. I am thinking after looking at all this that the first lights on the circuit are the rear pancake lights since they are the only lights with the same color wire coming from the fuse that is blowing. Don't understand why the switch lights are yellow as the yellow wire leaving the Dist. Panel is labeled "Monitor switch panel" I imagine FR uses any wire that is just lying around. That said each wire from the Dist. Panel is indeed a different color. See the pictures and my notes. Thanks.

I may need to split the pics into two replies.
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Old 12-02-2018, 06:00 PM   #83
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Old 12-02-2018, 06:24 PM   #84
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Looks like a white wire to me...

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David, that looks like a white wire (not yellow) coming off the position with the test lamp. Am I misunderstanding something?

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Old 12-02-2018, 06:40 PM   #85
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White? Yellow?

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Originally Posted by Davidceder View Post
Went to the rig today. Raining and sleet. I took some pictures. I am thinking after looking at all this that the first lights on the circuit are the rear pancake lights since they are the only lights with the same color wire coming from the fuse that is blowing. Don't understand why the switch lights are yellow as the yellow wire leaving the Dist. Panel is labeled "Monitor switch panel" I imagine FR uses any wire that is just lying around. That said each wire from the Dist. Panel is indeed a different color. See the pictures and my notes. Thanks.

I may need to split the pics into two replies.
Okay, David, I went back and re-read this one. My conjecture is:
  • Wire leaving the fuse panel is white
  • At some point, hidden in the wall, there's a junction of three wires:
  • White coming from the fuse panel
  • Yellow going to the switch
  • White going on to the lights that have self-contained switches
  • The above is based on the added picture in the next post.
  • Let's see about isolating these segments.
  • It looks like the connection to the switch is a Fast-on (slide-on type) connector, similar to where the fuses plug in.
  • Unplug the wires from the switch.
  • If the test lamp still burns bright, then the problem is not in the third segment (white going to lamps with self-contained switches)
Okay, now this next step is going to sound kinda weird.
  • Unplug the test lamp. Do not plug in a fuse.
  • Use a screwdriver and loosen the screw under the failing fuse socket. (should be a white wire based on the added picture)
  • Bend the wire up out of the way so it doesn't touch anything.
  • Plug the test lamp back in and see if it lights when conditions are cold
  • If it does, there is something causing this short right there in the fuse panel, possibly on the back side of the printed circuit card.

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Old 12-02-2018, 07:30 PM   #86
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White with Brown

The wire coming from the blowing fuse at the Dist. panel. Is white with a brown stripe. Same as the pancake lights. Follow the wire back a bit from the Dist. and you will see the brown stripe.
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Old 12-02-2018, 08:00 PM   #87
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Thanks, tough to see

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The wire coming from the blowing fuse at the Dist. panel. Is white with a brown stripe. Same as the pancake lights. Follow the wire back a bit from the Dist. and you will see the brown stripe.
Got it.

So the White/Brown goes from Dist. panel to the pancakes. Somewhere, possibly within a wall, the yellow taps off it, right?

It's a long shot but how about trying the test I mentioned--see if there's still a short with the White/Brown disconnected from the Dist. panel.

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Old 12-03-2018, 11:05 AM   #88
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Larry and David, great ideas, pixs etc. Don't rule out an internal short within the light fixtures/pucks. The solid white wires will be commons. A hot wire can short not only to a metal chassis ground, but to the common wire.
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Old 12-03-2018, 11:10 AM   #89
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The idea of a short behind the fuse panel is interesting.

With the fuse or light in place, try wiggling the wire bundle coming out of bottom of the panel. Also, don't be afraid to bang a little on the converter.

Stay clear of the 120V wiring of course.
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Old 12-03-2018, 11:16 AM   #90
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I thought about that...

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Larry and David, great ideas, pixs etc. Don't rule out an internal short within the light fixtures/pucks. The solid white wires will be commons. A hot wire can short not only to a metal chassis ground, but to the common wire.
I thought about that, but David had reported that the fuse would blow even if all five lights were switched off.

It could be a short inside the fixture but he has them all exposed now.

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Old 12-03-2018, 11:20 AM   #91
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I was thinking...

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The idea of a short behind the fuse panel is interesting.

With the fuse or light in place, try wiggling the wire bundle coming out of bottom of the panel. Also, don't be afraid to bang a little on the converter.

Stay clear of the 120V wiring of course.
I was wondering if a metal fragment had wedged behind the 12v distribution board and was shorting the fused terminal to ground.

FLASH!! You just made me wonder if the connection wire to the terminal was stripped back too far and then inserted too deeply into the connector. The stranded wire could have splayed out behind the panel and be touching something it shouldn't.

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Old 12-03-2018, 11:25 AM   #92
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Looking at the puck light, wiring goes into the puck in very close proximity. May be an internal short. Disconnect them one at a time and check the light.

Seen many internal shorts inside of components.
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Old 12-03-2018, 11:32 AM   #93
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On my TT there were several pre-strung wire bundles that were secured by screw down wire ties. They were stretched so tight that some of the wires and coax were pinched. I loosened and repositioned several to eliminate current and future problems.
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Old 12-03-2018, 12:01 PM   #94
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Talking Good Stuff

OK Guys, it is 27 degrees out there. I will go to the rig soon and make sure we are still in failure mode. If we are (and we should be) I will remove the brown and white wire going to the distribution panel and see whats up. In order to remove the pancake lights I will need to cut wires. I prefer to do the easy stuff first if possible before cutting wires. Also the pancake lights are in main rig while the other lights are all in a slide so wouldn't the stuff in the slide need to come in from under the slide so it can go in/out? Another thing, for now I still believe it is temperature related and not a dead short all the time.

I can't get to my converter unless I empty the storage (and than I still cannot really get to it, it is stuffed under the stairs) which is not going to happen today. Since the problem happens with only the battery on, can't we eliminate the converter?

Something no one has discussed is a faulty component in the distribution panel. Like John asked, if I remove the brown wire and the lamp is still lighted wouldn't that indicate the panel. I can much more easily believe a faulty component than a an intermittent temperature short. I will get in done in the next couple of hours and report.

Leaving tomorrow for a week (without the trailer) so will do what I can today. Glad the DW hasn't seen her trailer with all the lights hanging. She would not be a happy camper (no pun intended)
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Old 12-03-2018, 12:07 PM   #95
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Thought of another thing

Now that I think of it!! The brown wire was originally connected to a different fuse along with the kitchen slide. I separated them. So, the problem followed the wire so I doubt it is in the panel. I will still remove the wire and see what happens.
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Old 12-03-2018, 12:10 PM   #96
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Quote:
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Now that I think of it!! The brown wire was originally connected to a different fuse along with the kitchen slide. I separated them. So, the problem followed the wire so I doubt it is in the panel. I will still remove the wire and see what happens.
That makes sense.
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Old 12-03-2018, 12:12 PM   #97
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It won't hurt to remove the wire from the panel, it is probably not here but an easy test.

from your pictures next I would disconnect the one with the 2 white/brown wires.

You can generally remove those connectors without cutting the wires. Take a pair of slip joint pliers with the aggressive teeth in the middle and place the connector in the jaws perpendicular to the original crimp and squeeze a little and the wires should pull out. don't re-use the connector.
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Old 12-03-2018, 12:14 PM   #98
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David, the Puck lights are easier to remove than you think. If you'll take a wire crimper and squeeze the factory crimp on the thick side they will release from the wire easily.

You're just opening them up by making them round again.

You can also reuse them if you like. I've done it a few times with no problems. Not a tightwad, just convenient.
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Old 12-03-2018, 12:55 PM   #99
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If you don't have the proper crimp tool

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It won't hurt to remove the wire from the panel, it is probably not here but an easy test.

from your pictures next I would disconnect the one with the 2 white/brown wires.

You can generally remove those connectors without cutting the wires. Take a pair of slip joint pliers with the aggressive teeth in the middle and place the connector in the jaws perpendicular to the original crimp and squeeze a little and the wires should pull out. don't re-use the connector.
If you don't have the proper crimp tool, a packet of the twist-on wire nuts is inexpensive at Lowes.

Larry
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Old 12-03-2018, 02:05 PM   #100
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David, everything that Larry and John has suggested are good ideas. If I was the tech assigned to fix your unit, the next steps I would take in this order are:
1. Turn batteries on and see if the light in the fuse panel is burning bright. If it is lit up brightly indicating a short then while the light IS STILL connected to the fuse panel separate the 2 white with brown stripe wires from each other and see what happens. I highly recommend that that is done BEFORE disconnecting the wire at the panel. By separating the 2 wires first you have eliminated another part of the circuit from being part of the problem.
2. If the light at the panel is still bright AFTER toy separated the 2 wires in step 1 then with the light still connected in place carefully remove the white/ brown wire from the panel. If the light goes out the panel is ok. Be as careful as possible because you could make the short accidentally “disappear “ which is what you don’t want to happen without finding out what it is.
3. If you go out to the camper and the light is NOT lit disconnect the 2 brown/white wires and see what is dropped from the circuit. Jay
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