River Ranch

[chadjones99]

P.S. I would not call it an upgrade as I'm pretty sure the backing board on the AC control board is required and should be there. If it's not that's not right and this could cause a FIRE... I got lucky as it only killed my 2nd stage I still had 1st stage AC and it didn't catch fire... I also replaced a capacitor that was reading on the low side and a relay that we could not get to test well consecutively. But all the problems with those parts, we ( me and the AC tech ) feel was the PC board hard short. when it failed it popped both AC breakers and the 50 amp breaker ( all inside the RV ) and the 50 amp at the RV site plug in... how do you pop 4 breakers !!!???

[1jaysam]

Originally Posted by chadjones99

DocT what is the repair on your AC ? what are your failure symptoms ?
Just want to give some praise to RR / Columbus . They ( so far and to date ) have been working with me to line up a repair dealership near them. As they them selfs could not take it to on as they are overbooked. I also received my 1st reimbursement check from them for out-of-pocket repairs I have had to hire out so far.
Still have a long way to go I got the 1st issue with the AC fixed ( condenser fan bearing locked up cause it to trip on high Thermo ) then something else went out causing the 2nd stage compressor to stop working, So right now it only works under cooler conditions I.E. after 7 pm when it starts to cool off outside. I have a feeling that the 1st failure led to to the unit overrunning its duty cycle causing the 2nd issue, seems to be possible the main control board. Just waiting to get my AC guy back out.

We bought our River Ranch RV in July 2021 and found that it was not cooling the cabin very well. I have been in the HVAC industry for 30 + years. So here is what I found.
1. After checking the standard items on the unit to make sure it was working correctly.
I found that the unit was picking up a large amount of heat on the condenser side. This led me to get in the basement and take down the access panel on the inside of the basement. This is where I found the problem. The return duct is not ducted all the way back to the inlet of the unit. So, the return plenum is open to the space that has the compressor and the condenser section. This was allowing the return air to pick up heat from the thin piece of sheet metal between the condenser fan wall and the compressor section. Thus, causing the unit to pick up additional heat. Now what I did to fix the issue is I had to insulate the sheet metal so that the heat will not transfer to the return air. After insulating the unit, it has been working better.

2. Check your ductwork that is running through the basement see if it is sweating. I found several spots that had not been completely insulated or no insulation at all.

3. In addition, I found that where the city water supply comes in, is not sealed appropriately. This allows unconditioned air in the basement which in return is adding to the heat load on your AC.

Conclusion, after I finished insulating those areas in addition to the other problem areas it did help tremendously.

If you need more detail information you can email me at: r.wood759@gmail.com

[MissileMech]

Thanks for the info 1jaysam!! Do you have any pics?

[chadjones99]

Originally Posted by MissileMech

Thanks for the info 1jaysam!! Do you have any pics?

Yes pictures please, I noticed when the backing cover to my AC was off it was not sealed vary well at all, but I did not think to insulate the sheet metal but that makes since
Chad

[chadjones99]

Did any of you all get a mirror or cell camera and check you control board backing to see if it has a arc shield ?
Chad

[chadjones99]

So the 1st issue I had was the bearing on the condenser fan/blower started to lock up. Here's what happened, about 2 months ago ish I started to get a thermal overload on my 2nd stage compressor. I had an AC tech come out and the first thing we found was the thermo overload was tripped. If you open the side of your AC the little side box on it where the PC board and capacitors are housed. There are 2 red buttons. They will trip if your compressor pulls to much power due to overheating, etc. So after it tripped again. this is when he found that on our AC unit the condenser fan has 3 bearings .. yes 3 1 on each side of the motor and 1 way out at the end of the shaft and is mounted on the housing end. I will post pictures. Well, this is the same type of bearing that can be found on lower-speed large square cage fans. He had no idea why this would have 1, I told him probably because the shaft is long and it's kind of a heavy fan to keep it stable when it's bouncing down the highway... Anyway, these bearings after doing some research while ordering 1 I found out that most vendors that make this type of NONE sealed pillow block bears do not fill the reservoir completely with oil, and it's up to the end-user ( the AC manufacture in this case ) to top it off with oil... and it may need oil every 1000 hours or so. that's right it may need to be refilled and mine was probably never topped of by Coleman AC company.. The AC tech had never seen this type of bearing being used on this type of fan, and especially not on a sealed AC unit. SO he ordered a SEALED bearing that will never need oil. Anyway, if you end up in the backside of your AC for whatever reason you may want to add oil. the spec is NONE detergent oil up to 50 weight in warmer climates and 30 up north. if you use the 30 weight down south it will leak out faster. Yes it supposes to self lubricate by leaking a small amount of oil

[MissileMech]

Great info, thanks for posting! And I cannot believe Coleman put oiled bearings in a unit like this.....not smart! Looks like I will p be tearing I to my A/C.

[chadjones99]

Originally Posted by MissileMech

Great info, thanks for posting! And I cannot believe Coleman put oiled bearings in a unit like this.....not smart! Looks like I will p be tearing I to my A/C.

ok so if you go into your basement by the AC ( the back door on the basement )
1) removed black cardboard wall ( by the way mine wasn't even screwed in 100% ) you will also notice how crapy they did not insulate the outlet of the blower so it does not recirculate, fix this while you are there
2) removed the sheet metal wall on the AC on the part closet to back hatch door on RV its a pain some of the screws are on top of AC and you need a short screwdriver then you kinda gotta pry it off over the lip
3) once that is done you should be able to see The 2 compressors on the backside and the big condenser squirrel cage fan. you will see bearing on the shaft, oil it (droplets ) into the housing until full, you have to put in slow as air will trap the oil droplets
take lots of pictures in case you need them later its a lot of work to get this far LOL
I took my shop vac too cause you will find how they did NOT clean up after them selfs
PS pin your fan by hand it should spin freely, if it feels like its draging then you are already out of oil on that bearing

[DocT]

I will try to post pics from my thermal camera. But in short I was able to quickly find air leaks. The dealership taped the living the hell out of the ac unit so that was a significant improvement. However, every penetration (pipes/wires) going into the main cabin we’re dumping cold air so i sealed those up. Nice thing about thermal is you can see through the car board walls. I found a major leak that the dealer didn’t catch but you can easily get to it. When you open the door where the water filter, outdoor shower controls etc there is a black cardboard wall on the left, remove the screws and it will expose a vent up to floor, the flashing wasn’t sealed with tape and was sweating. I also saw clearly what 1jaysam talked about, with the black cardboard down in the rear belly the left side of the ac unit was very hot and shared space the metal flashing that had excessive sweating on it. I have emailed him to get clarification on how he insulated that. If I get the thermal pic to post you can clearly see the dark blue cold spot. I am thinking about adding a portable ac to washer/dryer closet and venting out the dryer exhaust. Does anybody have a pic of where to cut to get to the exhaust?

[MissileMech]

Well I dove in and this is what I found and did....The A/C is mounted on top of an I-beam steel base that the seams are not fully welded. This allows lots of heated air to pass through the seams. The other issue is the hot and cold side are attached together. What this means is the outside coil and fan (the equivalent of a home outside coil) generates a lot of heat. That heated air leaks around inside the cabinet and in turn heats the return air A LOT. Also, the metal box gets super heated and radiates heat into the return air as well. It is almost like putting a space heater in your return air ducting. My solution was to seal all the seams with foil tape and use insulation board to cover the hot metal to reduce the heat transfer to the return air. You have to cover the side, front, and top of the box. I did not have an ejection temp measurement at the air ducts before but I can tell you it is now much cooler than before. The sound level is less than before as well. Insulating like this should be done at the factory, I hope Columbus is listening since this would be easy to install before the unit goes in. I also oiled the stupid bearing on the squirrel cage while I was in there. I want to replace them with sealed bearings. Does anyone have a part number for these? I assume I have to go into the cool side from the exterior to oil that squirrel cage and inspect the control board. That will just consume part of another weekend....thanks Coleman

[MissileMech]

Originally Posted by 1jaysam

We bought our River Ranch RV in July 2021 and found that it was not cooling the cabin very well. I have been in the HVAC industry for 30 + years. So here is what I found.
1. After checking the standard items on the unit to make sure it was working correctly.
I found that the unit was picking up a large amount of heat on the condenser side. This led me to get in the basement and take down the access panel on the inside of the basement. This is where I found the problem. The return duct is not ducted all the way back to the inlet of the unit. So, the return plenum is open to the space that has the compressor and the condenser section. This was allowing the return air to pick up heat from the thin piece of sheet metal between the condenser fan wall and the compressor section. Thus, causing the unit to pick up additional heat. Now what I did to fix the issue is I had to insulate the sheet metal so that the heat will not transfer to the return air. After insulating the unit, it has been working better.

2. Check your ductwork that is running through the basement see if it is sweating. I found several spots that had not been completely insulated or no insulation at all.

3. In addition, I found that where the city water supply comes in, is not sealed appropriately. This allows unconditioned air in the basement which in return is adding to the heat load on your AC.

Conclusion, after I finished insulating those areas in addition to the other problem areas it did help tremendously.

If you need more detail information you can email me at: r.wood759@gmail.com

1jaysam, would it be a reasonable fix to use expanding spray foam to cover the exposed coils and seams for insulation from the hot side? Just curious what you would do to fix this design flaw.

[DocT]

Thanks for the pictures, I have not taken the external grill off but I did take off the internal black board side and the metal was VERY hot, as you said. Your right it’s frustrating we have to spend this kind of time on fixing a brand new Forrest River trailer. You would
Have thought they would have ensured the hvac was optimal since it is one the things they brag about the most. Like you I have spent hours retaping even after the bulletin fix at the dealership.

[DocT]

I was shocked to see how much heat was coming off the metal. My thermostat read 131F. Like you guys mentioned, I also had condensation dripping off the cool side. The dealer fix in the bulletin added styrofoam to the exterior and did nothing other than enclose the radiating heat to the cooling side. I insulated like jaysam and will take some temps from the floor tomorrow. I took pics of temp readings earlier today so want it to be a fair comparison at the same external temp outside. Hopefully it will help.

[DocT]

Sorry not sure why the pics posted upside down, wanted to add. My setup was different than misslemech. I show it in the pic before I started. Mine is a solid beam and was blowing down as it should. I guess this is the pain of getting a new design.

[vr6mole]

Wow, this is very frustrating to read all of these problems. I am in the market for a new fifth wheel and was super excited to learn how they went away from a traditional A/C but of course did a shooty job with the install.

A/C efficiency is very important to me as I primarily run off battery/inverter/solar. Was really hoping for a minisplit system here. Wondering how tough it would be to swap to a mini split.

Any idea if an EasyStart is available for these? What kind of amps is this pulling while running?

[chadjones99]

does anyone know the axle size, I believe it's 8k axles but what I am looking for is to add like a bearing buddy grease cap. Mine started to squeak pretty good and I haven't pulled the wheels off to get to the bearing housing but it would not surprise me at this point if they had not been greased property
So I figured I would order something that I could put on and service these once in a while.
so like 2-inch bearing buddy cap, etc ?

[chadjones99]

Originally Posted by vr6mole

Wow, this is very frustrating to read all of these problems. I am in the market for a new fifth wheel and was super excited to learn how they went away from a traditional A/C but of course did a shooty job with the install.

A/C efficiency is very important to me as I primarily run off battery/inverter/solar. Was really hoping for a minisplit system here. Wondering how tough it would be to swap to a mini split.

Any idea if an EasyStart is available for these? What kind of amps is this pulling while running?

SO I have done many amp draw test as I was getting my ac fixed and troubleshooting
basically, mine is pulling almost 15 amps per leg, you have 2 compressors, so if you set the AC lower than about 2 deg from the temp it kicks on the 2nd compressor after a min or two. So am not sure how a easy start would help, meaning I would guess you would need 2 of them ???
Also just FYI I was able to run my RV with Fridge, TV, and AC off one of these Chinese honda clones 4500 peak 3700 running watt generator. but I was NOT in a high-heat area.

[chadjones99]

MissileMech in those pictures you posted , I see the bearing I had to replace... did you oil it while you had all the covers off ?

[MissileMech]

Originally Posted by chadjones99

MissileMech in those pictures you posted , I see the bearing I had to replace... did you oil it while you had all the covers off ?

I did but I need to open up the other side for the interior blower. Are there one or two bearings on the colds side? I am hoping it is the same squirrel cage with one bearing.

[chadjones99]

Originally Posted by MissileMech

I did but I need to open up the other side for the interior blower. Are there one or two bearings on the colds side? I am hoping it is the same squirrel cage with one bearing.

I'm 99% sure it's not the same fan because the cold side fan is the blower fan for pushing air into your ducts and when mine is running and 2 stage compressor comes on it changes speed ( hot side ) and the inside does not. So I'm pretty sure its a different fan and bearings. but please post pics so I know what I'm up against and if I need to open that end on mine up too.