Why no safety chains on our 5th wheels ?

Jon_Celia · 05-07-2013, 08:45 PM

Why are there no safety chains on our 5th wheels ? I hauled a gooseneck dump trailer for 20 years and always felt better knowing I had safety chains.

Would there be a problem if I put safety chains on my Palomino 295RL ?

Thanks.

Jon

ChooChooMan74 · 05-07-2013, 08:52 PM

Are there safety chains on Big Rigs? Not required for kingpin hitches. Only ball type hitches.

That was one of the nice things about converting our car trailer back in the 90s from gooseneck to a fifth wheel. Got rid of the safety chains.

Helmsey · 05-07-2013, 09:50 PM

The 5th wheel is considered a positive locking device so the chains are not required.

joelek · 05-07-2013, 09:55 PM

I've seen semi trucks flip over and self destruct. In some of those wrecks, the 5th wheel is still attached to the king pin.

amxpress · 05-07-2013, 11:25 PM

There is however a safety brake cable that is hooked up to the TV. Hopefully, that will apply the fiver brakes if by some chance it gets away from you.
If the hitch pin comes out of the TV hitch, the trailer will drop on your bed and then go where? What would you want the chains to do and where would you connect them?

Jon_Celia · 05-08-2013, 02:06 PM

I use my safety brake cable and it is hooked up to the u shaped pins in the floor of my bed that is bolted to the frame of my truck.

I have a B & W fifth wheel hitch that also converts to a gooseneck. The safety chains snap onto the two u shaped pins from the floor.

I know that if the gooseneck hitch failed, the trailer would hopefully brake itself with the brake cable but the trailer would stay attached to my truck via the safety chains and not hurt or kill anybody else.

That is what I was wandering with the fifth wheel kingpin hitch. If the hitch or kingpin ever broke, it would seperate from my truck, the brake cable would apply the brakes to the trailer, but it would not be attached in any way to my truck.

I am just thinking about safety while towing.

Would it hurt anything if I put a set of safety cables on the kingpin hitch ? I know it would do some serious damage to the bed of my truck, but just trying to think of safety.

Thanks.

Jon

**ependydad** · 05-08-2013, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon_Celia

Would it hurt anything if I put a set of safety cables on the kingpin hitch ? I know it would do some serious damage to the bed of my truck, but just trying to think of safety.

Thanks.

Jon

I think you would bang up the bed of the truck pretty bad with chains.

My biggest concern would be their length and them interfering with the emergency brakes breakaway cable and the power/umbilical cord. Would they get pulled unintentionally by this extra cable?

RenoRock · 05-08-2013, 03:00 PM

I'm not sure how well this would do for an on-road failure, but Blue Ox makes a system to protect the truck bed from an uncaptured kingpin:

www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dautomotive&field-keywords=bxr4506&rh=n%3A15684181%2Ck%3Abxr4506

rjshiflet · 05-08-2013, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ependydad

I think you would bang up the bed of the truck pretty bad with chains.

My biggest concern would be their length and them interfering with the emergency brakes breakaway cable and the power/umbilical cord. Would they get pulled unintentionally by this extra cable?

I can tell you from experience...you DO NOT want something to interfere with the brake breakaway cable. One time (fortunately in town and going around a corner at about 10 mph) something in the bed of my pickup tangled with that and jerked the pin out.

I didn't move after that...and it took me a while to figure out what happened. I was making a slow, gentle right-hand turn when it got in a bind. Not a pleasant experience (lots of gawkers at a convenience store).

But, it was a great lesson.

Oakman · 05-08-2013, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjshiflet

I can tell you from experience...you DO NOT want something to interfere with the brake breakaway cable. One time (fortunately in town and going around a corner at about 10 mph) something in the bed of my pickup tangled with that and jerked the pin out.

I didn't move after that...and it took me a while to figure out what happened. I was making a slow, gentle right-hand turn when it got in a bind. Not a pleasant experience (lots of gawkers at a convenience store).

But, it was a great lesson.

Ha ha ha I had the same experience. I was doing a slow backing maneuver and the breakaway cable caught on a piece of firewood I had in the bed of the truck. Wow, the fifth wheel came to an instant stop and scared the heck out of me. It took me bit to figure out what happened too.

OldCoot · 05-08-2013, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ependydad

I think you would bang up the bed of the truck pretty bad with chains.

My biggest concern would be their length and them interfering with the emergency brakes breakaway cable and the power/umbilical cord. Would they get pulled unintentionally by this extra cable?

Shouldn't be any different than on a tongue trailer. Chains on a tongue trailer are crossed underneath the tongue to catch the tongue preventing it from hitting the pavement and giving it directional stability while still attached to the tow vehicle but having enough slack to activate the emergency brake.

**ependydad** · 05-08-2013, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldCoot

Shouldn't be any different than on a tongue trailer. Chains on a tongue trailer are crossed underneath the tongue to catch the tongue preventing it from hitting the pavement and giving it directional stability while still attached to the tow vehicle but having enough slack to activate the emergency brake.

True, but the OP is talking about hooking chains onto the U-bolts that are installed with his gooseneck hitch in the truck bed:

they're hard to see here, but there are 2 chain hooks on either side of the round hole/circle in the middle

With a bumper pull - the chains are dangling and aren't resting against anything.

With this setup - the chains would be laying in the truck bed and giving you more pinch points.

Or so I'm imagining. (about the pinch points - I'm absolutely sure about the B&W u-bolts)

Crusader · 05-08-2013, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oakman

Ha ha ha I had the same experience. I was doing a slow backing maneuver and the breakaway cable caught on a piece of firewood I had in the bed of the truck. Wow, the fifth wheel came to an instant stop and scared the heck out of me. It took me bit to figure out what happened too.

I had the same thing happen. Breakaway cable caught on fire wood turning a corner. I looked like a passenger jet leaving a con trail behind it !!

OldCoot · 05-08-2013, 03:49 PM

Looks like the chains would be behind the hitch. Shouldn't be a problem if he is just wanting to keep it hooked to the truck in case of a disconnect.

**ependydad** · 05-08-2013, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldCoot

Looks like the chains are behind the hitch. Shouldn't be a problem if he is just wanting to keep it hooked to the truck in case of a disconnect.

Well, they're kind of down in it. Here's the Companion base:

The coupler goes over top of that:

BUT- you do make a good point. Depending on where he hooks his emergency breakaway cable to - they could be out of each other's way entirely. Mine goes back to a corner tie down point on the truck beside of the tailgate. Not sure if I'm normal or not, though...

OldCoot · 05-08-2013, 04:12 PM

Don't have that problem with my Revolution, the break away is mounted on the side of the pin box that doesn't swivel and the connecting wires are attached just off center at the trailer pivot.

But, with a modified version of Butch's Catcher, I wouldn't use chains.

Oaklevel · 05-08-2013, 04:42 PM

Personally I think it would be more hazard to have "safety chains" than not having them........ just too much hitch "parts" to get hung up on when turning sharp or what ever. If you hook up too far toward the tailgate the legs of the trailer will be on the ground & could do some serious damage to those in the truck...... 15K+ can stop a 9K truck pretty fast........

There is a reason they are not required.............

treaves · 05-08-2013, 07:48 PM

I love the attitude of "I know better than engineers'! There is a reason 5th wheels do not have safety chains. If there were any advantage to them, they would have.

Jon_Celia · 05-08-2013, 08:15 PM

Thank you everybody, all this info is why I asked here on the forum.

I have an additional plug on the drivers side inside the bed of my truck for the electrical plug to keep it out of the way when I tow my gooseneck.

After 20 years of towing a 26' utility dump trailer for work, safety is always a priorty.

I will make SURE my 5th wheel is properly hooked up before towing.

I will bag the thought of safety chains.

Thanks again everybody.

Jon

You may also like: