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Old 09-04-2019, 08:28 PM   #41
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I'm dead-set against that. Only because governments being governments, they will not rescind the per-gallon fuel tax. They will just add on an additional per-mile tax.

As Europe citizens how well the VAT worked out. It was supposed to replace 'sales' taxes, but in most places it just supplemented them.

All you have to do is make fuel tax revenue totally separate from the general funds, and untouchable by anyone other than the DOT of that particular state. In MO, we have fuel tax revenues paying for the "internetification" of rural areas, amongst other things.

Tim
Highway funds for the internet.

Don't they call it the "information superhighway.?

Some B-crats probably figured "close 'nuff".
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Old 09-05-2019, 09:47 PM   #42
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After our June tour of CA, I said the roads were awful. Here is a survey that agrees with me. CA is about 45th overall and far worse than neighboring states.

Check out your state's ranking

https://patch.com/california/banning...ign=newsletter
I wonder how legit this survey is, PA not near the bottom and DE not near the top? That doesn't match my experience. Also my limited experience with MD and NJ roads is mostly favorable.
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Old 09-06-2019, 02:29 AM   #43
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I wonder how legit this survey is, PA not near the bottom and DE not near the top? That doesn't match my experience. Also my limited experience with MD and NJ roads is mostly favorable.
I suspect that it is quite legitimate, but as with all such surveys, their criteria for ranking may not agree with yours.
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Old 09-06-2019, 05:24 AM   #44
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What's the worry ? According to many of the candidates for Pres in 2020, by 2030, your vehicle will be about the size of a smart car, electric, and it will be mandated. No more wear and tear on the highways.
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Old 09-06-2019, 05:39 AM   #45
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We have had many improvements to I 75 here in southwest Fl but they are still not able to match the transition from road to bridge on the overpasses some have big dips.... we are 7 years into expansion on the 4 Sarasota/Bradenton exits ... extra lanes and long entrance/exit ramps are being added really just a massive project .... the migration to Fl is expected to continue and we are told that Housing and Roads will never catch up ... here in North Port you can still get a 1/4 acre lot for under $10,000 and build new home for around $200,000 .... just have to get use to our 2 seasons Warm and Hot
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Old 09-09-2019, 06:35 PM   #46
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Horrible roads

After attempting to drive I80 in eastern Pennsylvania and western New York, we returned home and sold the trailer. The banging and bounding on this horrible road was so bad that the spare tire mount broke off of the trailer. A screw came out of a wall mirror, allowing the mirror to swing and smash into (and break) a slide out switch. I never found the screw that came out of the bathroom fan. I had to make repairs and replace the lost spare wheel and tire just to sell the trailer.
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Old 09-09-2019, 06:59 PM   #47
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I don't complain at all about our roads in Alaska. They take a beating in the sub-arctic temps. We only pay $.14/gl fuel tax. Cracks, frost heaves and sunken pavement just force you to slow down if you don't want to use up you rig. AKDOT does a fairly good job of putting them back together after break-up every spring.
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Old 09-09-2019, 08:15 PM   #48
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If they own a car, perhaps. The trend is growing for more and more adults not own cars. Recent survey showed 12% of American adults do not own cars and in a 44 country survey the median for car ownership was 1/3.

We'll never see car ownership that low occur in the US but it's possible that we could see it drop drastically in large cities.

BTW, the earlier post regarging sidewalks getting highway funds, the key word was "maintenance". That's a far cry from construction when you compare costs.


If you really want to understand the source of my displeasure over bicycles getting favor over roads (and money from funds supposedly dedicated to highways_ you have to come spend some time in Seattle. I grew up in the area and remember when even at rush hour traffic still moved. Today all the arterials through the city have reduced vehicle capacity due to all the added bike lanes. Ever since the city elected a Mayor that rode a bike to work the bike lobby has successfully thrown the city's traffic into total gridlock. Oh yeah, not only do the bikes get to use their exclusive bike lanes, they still get full use of the sidewalks and if you see a bicyclist stop for the pedestrian signal, you just spotted a unicorn

Back to highways, if "talk" was concrete and asphalt we'd all have beautiful, velvet smooth, roads. Unfortunately all most state legislatures produce is "talk" when the subject of crumbling roads comes up.

We sold our house in Seattle April 2018. I could write for an hour and not tell all the ways Iím grateful for that. GRATEFUL!!! So glad to be away from that place. It was nice back in the day, Iím sure.
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Old 09-09-2019, 08:23 PM   #49
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About the best we can hope for near Sacramento, the CA state capitol, is Caltrans filling potholes with asphalt.


Was in Indiana a couple years ago and just shocked at the condition of the roads! They were immaculately cared for. No potholes on the freeways!



Doesn't take much to know where the money goes: straight into the politician's pockets. How else do career politicians live in million dollar mansions when they haven't worked for more than a few years at real jobs. For that matter, Caltrans workers have a pace about 10% of private sector workers.
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Old 09-09-2019, 08:48 PM   #50
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I actually agree with the "Pay by mile" concept as long as vehicles are separated into different weight classes and pay accordingly.

I've reduced my highway driving greatly to the point I actually get cheap "low mileage" insurance rates. 7500 miles per vehicle and I have two.

My "pay by mile" cost would be commensurate with my actual highway use.

As it is today, gas tax revenues decrease as the average vehicle mpg increases. A pay by mile system would be one way to put revenue more in line with use.

Unfortunately everyone fighting this is afraid that government will then be able to track their movements ------------like they can't or don't already.

As for the actual transponder/billing issue, here in WA State we've had four different projects involving transponders and tolls. In every case the company responsible for providing equipment and billing services has screwed up big time. Over charges, equipment failure, delayed installations, you name it. Tolls were supposed to start on the new tunnel under Seattle by now but are delayed AGAIN due to system failures.

Before states agree on any transponder system it would be a good request proposals from companies who have stuff that actually works.
Please explain how Washington government already tracks the vehicles (other than those using tolling facilities on roads and bridges)?
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Old 09-09-2019, 09:01 PM   #51
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Please explain how Washington government already tracks the vehicles (other than those using tolling facilities on roads and bridges)?
All one has to do is look up at the traffic light supports. A few years ago they started sprouting cameras. Ever hear of license plate readers? WA is a state that requires a front plate. Ever wonder why when only time law enforcement can really see and read a plate from a patrol car is from behind.

Do they track? Seems to be one of those questions that never gets a straight answer.

Do I care? Not really. Anyone following my movements will grow bored rapidly, assuming I'm still in the State.
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Old 09-09-2019, 09:16 PM   #52
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Around the Seattle/Puget Sound area public transit gets their own money from bond issues. They then "retire" the bonds with money generated by motor vehicle registration fees. If you own a 4-5 year old vehicle you pay a fee calculated on the state's version of it's value which can be thousands of dollars more than what you could get if you sold it.

This boondoggle is called "Sound Transit". They're currently collecting fees from residents of the county I live in and the first light rail cars won't show up for 5 more years. Expected to expand further with $54 Billion in expenditures. Expected to get over $1 Billion from the Fed's in 2019 (from federal fuel tax fund no

Luckily I live outside the RTA district and always will. My vehicles are paid for and I don't like the idea I'd have to pay up to $500 per year in additional registration fees, especially to support a project that may not reach my city for another 20 years. Whole deal has become "Pay in Advance" with a "just trust us" clause.


Our 88,000$ 2016 MH county taxes cost about 300$ brand new and again in 2017. With the RTA tax in King County - $1,300$!!! We sold our house and signed up with mail service in Sioux Falls and paid $167. Had a family member that worked for Sound Transit, I know too much. Wishing for George Carlin.
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Old 09-09-2019, 10:46 PM   #53
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mileage tax

Easy to tell who lives in the city close to services advocating mileage taxes. Not everyone is so fortunate. How about a little consideration for those who have to travel 250 to 300 miles round trip for doctors and groceries. Then have to pay sales tax to an out of state entity to boot. Can only ask that you think how those taxes can impact others in rural areas before advocating such things. My $0.02, stepping off my soap box.
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Old 09-10-2019, 08:20 AM   #54
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As long as democrats are in control things such as road conditions will always be last in line as for as priority for repairs.
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Old 09-10-2019, 09:36 AM   #55
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Easy to tell who lives in the city close to services advocating mileage taxes. Not everyone is so fortunate. How about a little consideration for those who have to travel 250 to 300 miles round trip for doctors and groceries. Then have to pay sales tax to an out of state entity to boot. Can only ask that you think how those taxes can impact others in rural areas before advocating such things. My $0.02, stepping off my soap box.
I'm one of "those" but let me explain. My support is conditional. I support a pay by mile tax/toll ONLY if it replaces the state's gas tax or a major portion of it. This spreads the burden evenly among those who are using the road. Econo cars pay according to their use just like heavier vehicles which due to their size and loads naturally burn more fuel. An Electric or Hybrid vehicle will pay in proportion to their road use just as will a large HD pickup, Delivery Truck, etc.


Those who have to drive 300+ miles to obtain services are currently paying more than a city dweller as they are consuming more fuel and thus more in taxes.

Like I said, I support the pay by mile form of supporting roads ONLY if the Fuel Tax is reduced greatly or eliminated.

As more and more vehicles become fuel efficient or are even replaced with electric vehicles fuel tax revenues drop so in order to offset the loss of revenue, the taxes are increased. The unintended consequence is that it forces more people to purchase vehicles that use less fuel and the vicious cycle continues.
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Old 09-10-2019, 09:40 AM   #56
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Nothing worse than California roads, as soon as I crossed the NV state line on I80 west of Reno, smooth as silk black top..relief at last.
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Old 09-10-2019, 11:46 AM   #57
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Sidewalks aren't paid for by highway funds. Usually separate bond issues and pedestrians DO pay when they pay their property taxes.

In cities the sidewalks have to be installed by the developers who build the buildings next to them as is the case with housing developments.
My goodness....it's just some humor - lighten up people.

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Old 09-10-2019, 12:05 PM   #58
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While this is an interesting subject it's nearly impossible to discuss without turning political which this thread has already started to. So we are going to go ahead and close it.
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