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09-03-2019, 05:31 PM
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#21
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Multi-Slacker
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,279
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I've long had a suspicion that big rigs stopping cause far more wear than do big rigs rolling. Except for mudslides, SoCal does not have a lot of weather that breaks roads, so why are the surface streets all beat up? My guess is the medium duty (40') rigs stopping.
Regardless, it is clear that our tax money is not being used for road repair.
__________________
Safe Travels
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09-03-2019, 06:13 PM
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#22
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 395
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I worked road construction for 3 summers as I was going to college and spent many an hour doing traffic control (as well as swinging a 16-18# sledgehammer, manhandling a 120# jackhammer, shoveling gravel and digging ditches) when I was on a road construction crew. I can tell you that when you flip that sign to 'STOP' and a big rig hits the brakes, you can feel the ground tremble - and if the trucker really hits them hard and the rig bounces a bit you can feel the ground jump, jump, jump right under your feet. Same if your work area happens to be near a traffic light and a red light brings a big rig to a quick stop.
No highway or road is perfectly smooth and level and 80k pounds bouncing over and on those imperfections - even small ones - hour after hour, day after day, will eventually begin to destroy the roadway. And that effect is magnified many fold when big rigs need to brake. I agree with CurtPutnam - far more wear and tear is caused by big rigs stopping than running down the road.
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09-03-2019, 06:29 PM
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#23
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gastan
No highway or road is perfectly smooth and level and 80k pounds bouncing over and on those imperfections - even small ones - hour after hour, day after day, will eventually begin to destroy the roadway. And that effect is magnified many fold when big rigs need to brake. I agree with CurtPutnam - far more wear and tear is caused by big rigs stopping than running down the road.
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The freeway (I-5) where it runs next to the city I live in is paved with asphalt. The section was re-paved a couple of years ago to eliminate the "wagon ruts" that formed due to the continuous truck traffic to and from Canada. Endless streams of trucks hauling freight to/from the ports in Tacoma, Seattle, and Vancouver, BC.
These ruts were so deep that you had your choice of driving with your car leaning Left or leaning Right. When it rained the ruts became rivers and accidents were frequent unless people slowed to around 35 mph.
Go out to the same portion of freeway and the same lane(s) are developing the ruts again. Trucks are not overweight for the theoretical capacity of the road as they're weighed regularly at the nearby weigh stations. It's just the continuous heavy loads relentlessly pounding the asphalt down.
For a while some blamed it on studded tires but problem was, the tracks were wider than car tracks and any vehicle over 10k was prohibited from using studded tires. Today, studded tires are just about history but the ruts are still forming.
Once upon a time heavy loads were carried by trains. Now, the RR's have pulled up tracks and a zillion trucks are on the highways. All for the sake of speed and convenience of getting things to the market place (from china mostly) as quick as possible.
Saw an ad on TV once from a RR company. They showed how many trucks could be removed from the cross country highways and how much less fuel it took to transport the same tonnage if it was carried by rail.
__________________
"A wise man can change his mind. A fool never will." (Japanese Proverb)
"You only grow old when you run out of new things to do"
2018 Flagstaff Micro Lite 25BDS
2023 f-150 SCREW XLT 3.5 Ecoboost (The result of a $68,000 oil change )
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09-03-2019, 07:00 PM
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#24
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 44
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Diversions to public transport are the main diversion. Not bicycles.
The reason the bike lanes are empty, is because you take your life in your hands, riding on city streets.
https://www.cato.org/blog/highways-gas-tax-diversions
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09-04-2019, 11:01 AM
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#25
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron750
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Around the Seattle/Puget Sound area public transit gets their own money from bond issues. They then "retire" the bonds with money generated by motor vehicle registration fees. If you own a 4-5 year old vehicle you pay a fee calculated on the state's version of it's value which can be thousands of dollars more than what you could get if you sold it.
This boondoggle is called "Sound Transit". They're currently collecting fees from residents of the county I live in and the first light rail cars won't show up for 5 more years. Expected to expand further with $54 Billion in expenditures. Expected to get over $1 Billion from the Fed's in 2019 (from federal fuel tax fund no doubt).
Luckily I live outside the RTA district and always will. My vehicles are paid for and I don't like the idea I'd have to pay up to $500 per year in additional registration fees, especially to support a project that may not reach my city for another 20 years. Whole deal has become "Pay in Advance" with a "just trust us" clause.
__________________
"A wise man can change his mind. A fool never will." (Japanese Proverb)
"You only grow old when you run out of new things to do"
2018 Flagstaff Micro Lite 25BDS
2023 f-150 SCREW XLT 3.5 Ecoboost (The result of a $68,000 oil change )
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09-04-2019, 12:23 PM
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#26
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Broken Toe
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Imperial (St. Louis) MO
Posts: 3,745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CurtPutnam
Why does the "gummint" have to build the roads? With today's tech a single transponder could log each vehicle on a roadway and assess a charge of r its use. That is how the NJ Parkway, Thruway, PA turnpike, etc. got built - via corps whether gummint owned or not. Political government is too inefficient to properly administer our roadways.
Of course, it would take the states 5 years to agree on transponder format - by which time the tech will have changed again.
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I'm dead-set against that. Only because governments being governments, they will not rescind the per-gallon fuel tax. They will just add on an additional per-mile tax.
As Europe citizens how well the VAT worked out. It was supposed to replace 'sales' taxes, but in most places it just supplemented them.
All you have to do is make fuel tax revenue totally separate from the general funds, and untouchable by anyone other than the DOT of that particular state. In MO, we have fuel tax revenues paying for the "internetification" of rural areas, amongst other things.
Tim
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FROG Member MO-0008-571 Since 20124444444444My Project Blog: https://cowracer.blogspot.com/
"Camper" 2016 Rockwood Signature Ultralite 8329ss
"Casper" 2017 Ram 2500 Laramie Diesel
..ProPride 3P Hitch - "Yeah. It's worth it."
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09-04-2019, 12:42 PM
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#27
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Multi-Slacker
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,279
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Cowracer - you are quite right with the assertion that taxes never go away. To make your solution work, each state's DOT agency would have to be constitutionally independent of the legislature. But then the legislature would find a new way to keep or increase any tax revenue lost to DOT.
__________________
Safe Travels
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09-04-2019, 12:49 PM
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#28
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Oshawa, ON
Posts: 984
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I can't believe Michigan isn't on the worst list.
__________________
Dave, Southern,ON
2017 GMC SLT HD All Terrain Crew Cab (6' 6" Box) 2012 Roo 23SS
E2 Trunnion WDH (1,000 lb / 10,000 lb)
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09-04-2019, 01:23 PM
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#29
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Chardon, Ohio
Posts: 513
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From the Ohio State line on the Indiana Turnpike to Shipshewana, Indiana you might as well be traveling on the moon.
And we PAY THEM to travel this road ?
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Bill, Maura & Rosie the rescued Boston Terrier
2016 Winnebago Adventurer 38Q-26K Chassis...traded in 2015 Wildcat 282RKX
Towing 4 down 2014 CR-V EX-L w/Nav & Blue Ox & Ready Brute Elite or 2018 Colorado Crew Cab 4x4 V6 longbed
NRA Endowment Life Member, FMCA #455593, WIT #170814 & Mid-Ohio Winnies
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09-04-2019, 01:32 PM
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#30
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 158
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Highway
Try driving through Oklahoma city I have been on jeep trails that were smoother
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09-04-2019, 02:06 PM
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#31
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Broken Toe
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Imperial (St. Louis) MO
Posts: 3,745
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How about Democratic Peoples Republic of Illinois? That state is constitutionally incapable of paving a bridge approach properly. You always get a hefty "launch stroke" getting on, a bit of a free-fall getting off, and your fillings knocked loose by the expansion joints in between.
I call I-255 outside the STL the Illinois Suspension Proving Grounds.
Tim
__________________
FROG Member MO-0008-571 Since 20124444444444My Project Blog: https://cowracer.blogspot.com/
"Camper" 2016 Rockwood Signature Ultralite 8329ss
"Casper" 2017 Ram 2500 Laramie Diesel
..ProPride 3P Hitch - "Yeah. It's worth it."
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09-04-2019, 02:27 PM
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#32
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Gold Tee Box
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Rolla, MO
Posts: 563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs.Shockley
OMG - I complain all the time about how crappy Missouri's roads are!
If we're #3, I'm afraid to leave the state.
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Also from Missoura...actually, we've towed or driven all over the country and I agree with the ratings on this list.
The northern states suffer from freeze and thaw, therefore potholes... California just suffers from neglect and other social priorities. Hawaii just doesn't have an excuse but they are bad on the big island when you get away from the population centers.
The worst situations, no matter what state you are in are the interstate bridge approaches! They will shake and rattle you and your camper. Every time I approach one, I lift off the fuel and coast a little, hoping for the best!
__________________
Success is hiring someone to mow your lawn so you can play golf for exercise.
2018 GMC 2500 Duramax Denali
2018 Coachman Freedom Express 287BHDS
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09-04-2019, 02:39 PM
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#33
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: North Port Florida
Posts: 2,050
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__________________
Frank & Cindy--- (SOB) 5th Wheel ---2019 Ram 3500 Cummins 6.7 SRW 4x4 8' bed--- Payload 4394------Remi & Sage camping pups---TST 507 TPMS ... B&W Patriot 18K---3.73 axle ... Predator 3500---2019 48 days ---2020 28 days Camping
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09-04-2019, 04:17 PM
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#34
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Broken Toe
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Imperial (St. Louis) MO
Posts: 3,745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frank4711
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If I was you, I would tell them to take their no-good money and go elsewhere.
Tim
__________________
FROG Member MO-0008-571 Since 20124444444444My Project Blog: https://cowracer.blogspot.com/
"Camper" 2016 Rockwood Signature Ultralite 8329ss
"Casper" 2017 Ram 2500 Laramie Diesel
..ProPride 3P Hitch - "Yeah. It's worth it."
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09-04-2019, 05:04 PM
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#35
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Waukee, IA
Posts: 566
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It's a crying shame! When I was a kid, growing up in Orange County, California's roads were among the best in the nation. But that was a LOOOOONG time ago. I left in '68.
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'19 Chevy Colorado Z71 4x4 Crew Cab
'17 Salem Cruise Lite 232RBXL
Mickey the Rescue Project Schnauzer
Days Camped: '17-39, '18-61, '19-64, '20-38
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09-04-2019, 05:20 PM
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#36
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Wisconsin/Florida
Posts: 1,908
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGrinch
Here's my take on why roads are so bad....
Back in my former life, I was part of a traffic committee in my county. The MD State Highway Admin guy talked about redecking a bridge on I-68. The work is now almost completed.... but the intial meeting I referred to was almost 15 YEARS AGO! That is why our roads and such are in bad shape - it takes the governments YEARS TO ACTUALLY GET THE JOBS DONE!
Thank you and end of rant. [emoji34]
Larry
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I do believe that the government could take a lesson from the railroads. A few years ago, a RR bridge in Minnesota City, MN was washed out by a flash flood. The railroad had the bridge replaced and operational in a little more than a week.
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09-04-2019, 05:37 PM
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#37
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,740
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PenJoe
I do believe that the government could take a lesson from the railroads. A few years ago, a RR bridge in Minnesota City, MN was washed out by a flash flood. The railroad had the bridge replaced and operational in a little more than a week.
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Difference is the railroad loses profits from the bridge being out. Govt takes money from us whether or not we get anything in return.
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09-04-2019, 05:48 PM
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#38
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Yorktown VA
Posts: 113
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Those potholes in California will never be a problem for us. Just sayin.
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09-04-2019, 06:21 PM
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#39
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 3,188
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Right!! We no longer RV in the Republic of California due to the awful roads as well as the gazillion people.
__________________
Tom & Renée
Durham, NC
2021 Jayco Class C model 27U
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09-04-2019, 07:31 PM
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#40
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Crossville,TN
Posts: 588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bedubya
It's a crying shame! When I was a kid, growing up in Orange County, California's roads were among the best in the nation. But that was a LOOOOONG time ago. I left in '68.
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Those CA social programs are expensive, money has to come from somewhere. After living and working in CA for 42 years I left in 2004 never to return. It's like another country to me now.
__________________
Retired 2020.
46 Years RVing and no end in sight.
2018 Ram 3500 SB Limited, CC, 6.7/Aisin, 4X4, SRW. Comfort Ride Energy Absorbing Hitch.
2020 Cedar Creek Hathaway 34IK, Reese 19K Sidewinder PB.
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