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Old 01-18-2018, 10:06 AM   #61
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Electronics should enhance our lives but not take over. Yes, I can call AAA to change my tire but knowing how to do it myself is important to know if the electronics don't work. Being too dependent on these things can get you into trouble.
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Old 01-18-2018, 10:08 AM   #62
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Computers and smart phones are a key element. Before them kids use to enjoy learning about how things work and how to use and fix them. That's all changed.

Remember how TV use to be so addictive? Electronic devices are the millenial's TV from yesteryear. The crucial difference is TV programs directed at us as kids were few where as those electronic devices always capture the millenial's attentive 24/7/365. So we use to be excited to learn how to plumb, do electrical work, carpentry, engine maintenance. Millenials simply see it as work that tears them away from their electronic devices. The latter being absolutely intolerable!

Good patenting is taking them away from the device and putting them to work when work is needed around the house. Bad parenting is doing nothing. Or even worse making excuses for them. I've noticed the excuse making even on this thread and have heard the exact same from other lenient parents before.
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Old 01-18-2018, 10:09 AM   #63
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Only real problem I see in "today's kids" is that they stay Liberal longer than they used to............


Nailed it!
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Old 01-18-2018, 10:20 AM   #64
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Most of the younger people today lack the skills we acquired growing up partly because we as parents never exposed them to these and partly because, as others have said, they are not needed as much. Today's young adults are more book smart than street smart. When I retired from the fire service 8 years ago one of the things we had to teach during orientation was basic hand tools since some could not tell the difference between a straight screw driver and a phillips. But, who do we go to when we can't figure out how to do something with our phones or computers.

My son, now 34, took things apart as a child (sometimes to my dismay) to see how they worked. Now he takes ideas in his head and builds or improves things. He learned to drive with a 75 Ford F250 and a manual on a 92 Toyota pickup (which he now has) and hates driving an automatic.

It's a different world and they have skills we have a difficult time comprehending.
Speak for yourself old timer LoL
I can rebuild a diesel engine, diagnose the computerized fuel system that controls it... And YES I can even set the clock on my VCR 😎
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Old 01-18-2018, 10:23 AM   #65
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Electronics should enhance our lives but not take over. Yes, I can call AAA to change my tire but knowing how to do it myself is important to know if the electronics don't work. Being too dependent on these things can get you into trouble.
X2 Here's a great real life example: map reading is entirely dependent on Google Maps if you can't read a map and set a course. So every year people hike out into the mountains with either their GPS or some electronic form of mapping. Works great! They know exactly where they are within a few feet accuracy!

Then suddenly POOF the battery just died and they don't even have a paper map or compass. Besides that they are freaking out because they no longer have an electronic umbilical cord and might as well be lost in Jurassic park. It happens so often that they now charge thousands of dollars for a rescue when that person has no map, compass, or other gear needed to return safely from the mountains. Electronic devices drain unbelievably fast in the mountains because they put out maximum power to keep or find a tower. Learned that on my first trip but of course I had a map and compass and know how to use them😁
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Old 01-18-2018, 03:11 PM   #66
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Different horses for different courses?

My daughter can change a tire no problem, she learned way back when she was in Girl Scouts and got a merit badge for it. I taught the course. My son can too, though he doesn't own a car or want to own one. He would rather just call AAA and wait.

My daughter lives in a log cabin in the woods with no running water 7 miles from the nearest cellphone signal and runs trail maintenance crews, she is the chain saw boss. My son lives in Boston and considers anything under 100,000 people uninhabitable. Both are productive tax paying citizens, she is 31 and he is 33.

In my family there are 4 siblings, I am the oldest and can do a lot of mechanical hands on things, I have one brother with multiple college degrees that has trouble getting the lids on and off jars. The rest fall in between.

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Old 01-18-2018, 03:14 PM   #67
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There is no doubt we are not teaching the younger generation vocational skill sets.
Many programs have gone away from our schools
and many parents seem to be too busy with their own lives to teach their children.

With that said, this isn't anything new.
I am simply amazed at the number of daily posts on this forum (and others) where someone has no clue about a basic problem/repair.
I agree with 5picker. I graduated HS in '72, my youngest brother graduated in '80. The HS we went to had the following courses.

Electronics and electrical (5 courses).
Metals shop, metal fabrication, gas and ac/dc welding (6 courses).
Drawing and drafting (2 courses in drafting).
Auto maintenance and auto mechanics (6 courses - maintenance, auto electronics, engine mechanics 1 & 2, manual transmissions, automatic transmissions).
Wood shop & cabinet making, (3 courses).

Advanced cabinet making (the 3rd course) students went to my uncle's cabinet making shop next door to the HS.

Students in metal fabrication and auto mechanics classes went to a separate building to maintain school buses and work on their own cars/trucks.

Metal fabrication classes built a greenhouse when I was in electricity class, my electricity class wired the greenhouse. In my junior year I was a student aid & my senior year I was a lab/teaching assistant.

To get to the point, those courses are no longer taught in that HS. The greenhouse is gone and the auto mechanic building is used for storage for the school board members, in other words full of personal junk.

It's a shame. That HS had the highest ranking in the state for vocational skills courses.
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Old 01-18-2018, 03:31 PM   #68
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I have experience with kids and parents in the educational system. Parents have a lot of responsibility for how their kids turn out. It begins with teaching them how to act and knowing what are the expectations of the society they live in.

Those expectations are self reliance, personal responsibility, drive to start and finish tasks, learning and constantly improving, common sense, etc, etc. That's the parenting part. Teaching subjects like math, science, etc is the school's part. Unfortunately the educational system lost its mind and decided to take over the parenting part.

Parents are more then ecstatic to hand over their kids to a "system" to raise their kids. Why? Because they think it makes their job so much easier. Besides that if the kids acts poorly or gets poor marks they can pass all blame on to the "system". Parents don't see the harmful effects of being absentee parents, their kid's "buddy" rather then their parent, being too lenient, etc. They do finally see it once the kid is 18 or so and out of school with a poor education and few prospects and a bleak future.

Yes, it is the parents with few exceptions. They need to remember to take responsibility for their kids. Forget the buddy stuff and be a parent instead. Teach them the things a parent should and don't think for a minute it is the responsibility of anyone else. Show me a well adjusted and intelligent kid and I'll show you a responsible parent.
AMEN ! hit the nail on the head
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Old 01-18-2018, 03:43 PM   #69
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My son is 22 and an Eagle Scout. I spent my time going to scout meetings from Tiger Cubs all the way to Eagle. The kid has skills and I still think it is the best program out there for learning how to be a good contributing citizen. He already has his pilots license and an associates degree in aviation. I am a very proud dad and tell anyone who will listen that scouting is the place to learn what they don't teach in schools.
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Old 01-18-2018, 03:46 PM   #70
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I have experience with kids and parents in the educational system. Parents have a lot of responsibility for how their kids turn out. It begins with teaching them how to act and knowing what are the expectations of the society they live in.

Those expectations are self reliance, personal responsibility, drive to start and finish tasks, learning and constantly improving, common sense, etc, etc. That's the parenting part. Teaching subjects like math, science, etc is the school's part. Unfortunately the educational system lost its mind and decided to take over the parenting part.

Parents are more then ecstatic to hand over their kids to a "system" to raise their kids. Why? Because they think it makes their job so much easier. Besides that if the kids acts poorly or gets poor marks they can pass all blame on to the "system". Parents don't see the harmful effects of being absentee parents, their kid's "buddy" rather then their parent, being too lenient, etc. They do finally see it once the kid is 18 or so and out of school with a poor education and few prospects and a bleak future.

Yes, it is the parents with few exceptions. They need to remember to take responsibility for their kids. Forget the buddy stuff and be a parent instead. Teach them the things a parent should and don't think for a minute it is the responsibility of anyone else. Show me a well adjusted and intelligent kid and I'll show you a responsible parent.
Well Said!
I also had some experience working with the education system, LA County School District.
Saw this kind of stuff all the time.

Add the fact that the education system dropped vocational training and shop classes years ago.
This was because educators put no value to this training and wanted to only focus on college as an acceptable outcome.

Most of these policymakers never had a regular job. They went from high school to college to teaching to administration.
They never worked at a gas station or a fast food place or a retail store.

They consider trades jobs as low level employment and for those not smart enough for college.
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Old 01-18-2018, 03:59 PM   #71
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$5 to mow yard

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When was the last time that you offered a young kid $5 to mow your yard. You have a lot of grief coming...
My kids would just laugh at me $5 to mow yard, sure they are grown and on their own. I pay my youngest $10 to help with yard work or chores around the house. My wife looks at me with that eye, not sure if she thinks I am cheap or over paying. Then again $15 to flip burgers at mcdonalds.. Easier then some work around the house.
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Old 01-18-2018, 04:24 PM   #72
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Speak for yourself old timer LoL
I can rebuild a diesel engine, diagnose the computerized fuel system that controls it... And YES I can even set the clock on my VCR 😎
Please send me the you tube video on how to set the clock. I have one that keeps flashing at me.
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Old 01-18-2018, 05:01 PM   #73
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just saw a liberty mutual commercial
are kids really so dumbed down that they can't even change a tire...
sad world we live in
I was a collision repair teacher years ago and every year I would try to teach them how to use jacks, stands and other stuff. I swear, almost everyone, every year would put the lugs on upside down.
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Old 01-18-2018, 06:30 PM   #74
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Speak for yourself old timer LoL
I can rebuild a diesel engine, diagnose the computerized fuel system that controls it... And YES I can even set the clock on my VCR 😎
What's a VCR?

Kidding of course, I'm old enough to remember Curtis Mathis top-load VCRs with wired remotes. That thing was almost the size of a modern microwave oven.
About 12 years ago, I linked my old but nice turntable with my computer to digitize some of my pops-in-law's treasured LP records (I'm deep into middle age, but still pretty tech-savvy). My son, who was about 9 at the time, had no idea what that contraption was or the big, black disks it played. I showed him my old collection and we had a really good time going through the music of Dad's youth. He was pretty impressed with some of my collection and finally realized ol' Pop is actually pretty cool. He's 21 now, hope he still feels the same way!
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Old 01-18-2018, 06:33 PM   #75
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If we as parents don't teach them what does one expect ???


It’s not that we don’t try. They don’t want to know. I’ve tried to show my boys how to change a flat. 5 minutes into the process they’re nowhere to be seen.
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Old 01-18-2018, 06:47 PM   #76
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Well Said!
I also had some experience working with the education system, LA County School District.
Saw this kind of stuff all the time.

Add the fact that the education system dropped vocational training and shop classes years ago.
This was because educators put no value to this training and wanted to only focus on college as an acceptable outcome.

Most of these policymakers never had a regular job. They went from high school to college to teaching to administration.
They never worked at a gas station or a fast food place or a retail store.

They consider trades jobs as low level employment and for those not smart enough for college.
The irony behind their thinking is plumbers, electricians etc make a great living. They've been programmed to think otherwise (among other things) yet tjey can't see it.
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AMEN ! hit the nail on the head
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Old 01-18-2018, 06:50 PM   #77
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Please send me the you tube video on how to set the clock. I have one that keeps flashing at me.
https://youtu.be/b5Sx9f0g7qE
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Please send me the you tube video on how to set the clock. I have one that keeps flashing at me.
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Old 01-19-2018, 11:01 AM   #78
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It was a requirement for both my son and my daughter to be able to change their own oil and their tires before I would let them drive by themselves.
Daughter didn't like it but didn't bother son. He rebuilt motor in his little truck while in high school.
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Old 01-19-2018, 11:23 AM   #79
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I am 54(recently) my brother is 44. I grew up helping my father work on everything(no money and mechanical father) and if it broke he/we fixed it...literally. Television, a/c(when we got one), plumbing and electrical, roof, remodeling, cars, etc.. he fixed it all. My bother didn't help much. He did mow and help(mostly after I moved out at 21 YO). He never wanted to work on stuff. He can draw like an artist...I can't draw a stick figure, but I could rebuild your engine or install/repair an A/C system(went to school). My brother can also play a guitar(I used to play trumpet...yes I WAS good).
DD No.1 has a problem...she calls dad... DD No.2 has a problem she hasn't encountered... she asks what to do. Before she went off to college she had me show how to change her oil...and she changed it while she was there.

Point being... we are all different. Some good and some not so good.
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Old 01-19-2018, 11:44 AM   #80
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It’s not that we don’t try. They don’t want to know. I’ve tried to show my boys how to change a flat. 5 minutes into the process they’re nowhere to be seen.
Hold a biscuit up. They'll come back around when they smell it.
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