12 volt Refrigerator vs Propane gas

[Chuck_S]

Summer days are not kind to campers without absorption refrigerators.

The heat inside a refrigerator has to go someplace. In your home kitchen that place in into your kitchen -- feel the heat coming out the back. And that happens in a camper with a compressor refrigerator too. You're heating your whole camper with the refrigerator. Those grills on the outside wall of a camper with an absorption refrigerator and the stack on the roof handle the heat in this installation. The heat goes outdoors and your air conditioner will thank you.

-- Chuck

 

[aircommuter]

Ones in the marine applications are the same Danfos style compressors and the same exact control boxes but housed in different style boxes made of stainless steel or composite materials. For Safety reasons they use non flammable refrigerant unlike RV units. Let’s not confuse my words here. I’m talking about the refrigerant in a compressor fridge. Not the LP that powers an absorption fridge.

Most RV compressor fridges use R600a refrigerant and marine units use R134a.

Those are the major differences but the technology is the same

The point about the $150 compressor change was that these fridges can be repaired. The statement was made that they couldn’t be repaired. Simply not true. Pretty much anything in them that makes them function is generic. Not a lippert or furion or cannon exclusive.

As the market drives more of these into more RVs I’m sure you will find more technicians prepared to deal with it.

we know of course that 134a is used in automotive applications but as the government keeps adding more regulations that is going by the wayside as is R410 used in mini split systems.

 

[aircommuter]

Summer days are not kind to campers without absorption refrigerators.

The heat inside a refrigerator has to go someplace. In your home kitchen that place in into your kitchen -- feel the heat coming out the back. And that happens in a camper with a compressor refrigerator too. You're heating your whole camper with the refrigerator. Those grills on the outside wall of a camper with an absorption refrigerator and the stack on the roof handle the heat in this installation. The heat goes outdoors and your air conditioner will thank you.

-- Chuck

Yep. The very same reason I have been using induction cooking for the last 44 years in my homes. The heat goes where it is needed and not using a single temperature of 3500 degrees to cook everything.

 

[fanrgs]

Our motohome has a 12v fridge, 210A-h of Li batteries, 450w of solar, and a generator. In four years, our generator has 17 run-hours, nearly all for periodic exercizing. We have had to run it once when nighttime temps reached 23 degrees and the furnace ran the batts down while dry camping. But we have never once needed to run the generator due to fridge drawdown despite dry camping in USFS and NPS cgs. frequently and boondocking free on BLM and state wildlife area land. We have had 2-way fridges, but love the 12v and will never go back. But we also live and camp in the arid SW with 300 days of sunshine each year!

 

[MGD1961]

we know of course that 134a is used in automotive applications but as the government keeps adding more regulations that is going by the wayside as is R410 used in mini split systems.

All of the refrigerants that are produced today are non cfc and not ozone depleting. Using different refrigerant in different systems has nothing to do with government interference. It has to do with how it will perform in certain applications.

A mini split is a very different system than a refrigerator. R134a was developed in the 80s to replace R12. R 410a R417a R409a were developed to replace R22.

R600a was developed because it is largely propane and is cheaper for mass production markets. R134a is used where cost is less of a concern and safety is a concern.

 

[Muggs]

In our application we had a Norcod electric/propanw fridge. Worked fine though ice cream would be soft at times. In 7 years, ran constantly except for 3 times we defrosted. The cooling unit quit a few months before trading, was easy replacement. Other than that was zero issue.

New unit has 12v, a single panel. Works great once we learned to not put stuff against back plate (clean 2x4 preventative in place). Middle out night soda can explosion interesting.

The only time we boondock is when power out. Being in Florida, always plugged in to either house or race trailer generator. At one year EV internal gen only has 18 hours from exercising.

Is louder than old one but in our application background noise from open headers easily exceed. We can sleep through anything except soda can explosion so far

All of the stuff, 12v fridge, dual A/C, V-8, EMS system, 750 lb tongue weight would not have driven purchase. They are great to have. Our 2nd pup (runt of litter) turned into a horse so required more space.

Find what fits your application and be happy. Not sure purpose of original post. Sometimes tech advances with time, sometimes is just new. Get what fits your need. We run off battery so little, after 7 years original RV batts still powering boat trolling motor.

 

[GolfingDave]

Summer days are not kind to campers without absorption refrigerators.

The heat inside a refrigerator has to go someplace. In your home kitchen that place in into your kitchen -- feel the heat coming out the back. And that happens in a camper with a compressor refrigerator too. You're heating your whole camper with the refrigerator. Those grills on the outside wall of a camper with an absorption refrigerator and the stack on the roof handle the heat in this installation. The heat goes outdoors and your air conditioner will thank you.

-- Chuck

Don't those grills let air conditioned cold air out also? And heated air in the winter?
I honestly do not know since this is my first camper.

I cold weather camp a lot(entire winter), maybe the warm air from my 12V fridge helps with the heating? I doubt it, about as much as it effects my air conditioning in the summer. Negligible.

Have read though that 12V refrigerators hold more food in comparable sizes. Since I full time it is nice to be able to keep more cold and frozen food available. Just me.

 

[Muggs]

Size difference is significant though old one served purpose.

 

[aircommuter]

Don't those grills let air conditioned cold air out also? And heated air in the winter?
I honestly do not know since this is my first camper.

I cold weather camp a lot(entire winter), maybe the warm air from my 12V fridge helps with the heating? I doubt it, about as much as it effects my air conditioning in the summer. Negligible.

Have read though that 12V refrigerators hold more food in comparable sizes. Since I full time it is nice to be able to keep more cold and frozen food available. Just me.

Answer to first question is no. It doesn’t matter RV or home a compressor refrigerator is likely kept colder than the room temperature therefore heat must be removed and is distributed to the room/s.

 

[aircommuter]

All of the refrigerants that are produced today are non cfc and not ozone depleting. Using different refrigerant in different systems has nothing to do with government interference. It has to do with how it will perform in certain applications.

A mini split is a very different system than a refrigerator. R134a was developed in the 80s to replace R12. R 410a R417a R409a were developed to replace R22.

R600a was developed because it is largely propane and is cheaper for mass production markets. R134a is used where cost is less of a concern and safety is a concern.

R410 is being phased by government regulations and they are still working on replacements. In automotive the r134a replacement is 1234yf.
https://heatpumpingtechnologies.org/us-epa-confirms-future-restrictions-on-high-gwp-refrigerants/

 

[GolfingDave]

Answer to first question is no. It doesn’t matter RV or home a compressor refrigerator is likely kept colder than the room temperature therefore heat must be removed and is distributed to the room/s.

I understand that, I work on them for 15 years.
What I am asking about is the holes in the outside wall. Unless they are completely sealed off from the inside of the camper somehow inside air has to leave the camper. Letting cool air out and warm air in during the summer and opposite in the winter.

 

[aircommuter]

I understand that, I work on them for 15 years.
What I am asking about is the holes in the outside wall. Unless they are completely sealed off from the inside of the camper somehow inside air has to leave the camper. Letting cool air out and warm air in during the summer and opposite in the winter.

Well if you have open holes to the outside the results are obvious. It would eventually allow the outside and inside temperatures to equalize. Not what you are try to achieve.

 

[GolfingDave]

Well if you have open holes to the outside the results are obvious. It would eventually allow the outside and inside temperatures to equalize. Not what you are try to achieve.

I think you are mistaking what my initial post was about. Look at the response I quoted.
He is basically saying 12V refrigerators put heat in an air conditioned camper.
What I was getting at is, don't slots in an outside wall do the same?
What is the difference whether it is a 12V or absorption type.

 

[aircommuter]

I think you are mistaking what my initial post was about. Look at the response I quoted.
He is basically saying 12V refrigerators put heat in an air conditioned camper.
What I was getting at is, don't slots in an outside wall do the same?
What is the difference whether it is a 12V or absorption type.

Are you referring to the slots behind the absorption refrigerator? They don’t come inside the camper.

 

[GolfingDave]

Are you referring to the slots behind the absorption refrigerator? They don’t come inside the camper.

Yes.
That is why I was saying,
"Don't those grills let air conditioned cold air out also? And heated air in the winter?
I honestly do not know since this is my first camper."

The slots aren't in the wall in back of the refrigerator? And use the refrigerator as a seal? And if so, how tight is that seal to prevent heat/cold to pass by.

Seen pictures of the back of refrigerators but have not seen any pictures of the cubby hole they slide into.

 

[aircommuter]

Yes.
That is why I was saying,
"Don't those grills let air conditioned cold air out also? And heated air in the winter?
I honestly do not know since this is my first camper."

The slots aren't in the wall in back of the refrigerator? And use the refrigerator as a seal? And if so, how tight is that seal to prevent heat/cold to pass by.

Seen pictures of the back of refrigerators but have not seen any pictures of the cubby hole they slide into.

The refrigerator fits snug against the opening and one could add a sealing gasket if desired. I have never felt any air flowing to the inside past one. It is a drafting chimney as any heat produced by the refrigerator keeps rising and getting replacement air from the grill. Some people have added a small fan to help the flow.

 

[MGD1961]

R410 is being phased by government regulations and they are still working on replacements. In automotive the r134a replacement is 1234yf.
https://heatpumpingtechnologies.org/us-epa-confirms-future-restrictions-on-high-gwp-refrigerants/

Humm. So I learned something today. Guess I’ll have to look into what this will really mean in the field.

Thanks

 

[aircommuter]

Humm. So I learned something today. Guess I’ll have to look into what this will really mean in the field.

Thanks

Your welcome. I have been watching this for a while and some companies are advertising their product saying it is slightly flammable but good. They offer a webinar sometimes. Once the government gets involved it will continue until every penny is used up. It gets old.

 

[65MAX]

Propane for me...

...purchased used 2021 (pandemic era) 21DS with dual refer. Freezes ice from water quickly and ice cream not soft. Actually, refer section is too cold and I need to keep the thermistor off the fins to have it not turn into a freezer. So, no need for better battery (although not out of the question) or an inverter. Size is more than adequate for my fortnight to month-long needs.

 

[MGD1961]

Your welcome. I have been watching this for a while and some companies are advertising their product saying it is slightly flammable but good. They offer a webinar sometimes. Once the government gets involved it will continue until every penny is used up. It gets old.

Refrigerant has been regulated since 1968. For good reason