Bed Cable brackets….. anyone have bent ones.

[RhumbleFish]

instead of a single through bolt and washer, I will fabricate a square metal plate same size as the foot and simply convert the two outboard screws to through bolts as well... giving me a total of three through bolts in the highest stress area.

Ed, Buddy, friend, pal... I suggest that if your outer base plate is the SAME size as the foot, you'll likely be undersized ... and not spreading the load out accordingly/appropriately.

Think of the size of the washer at the center of the current plate, and the radius of the washer that extends outward from the center bolt. If you *virtually* increase the diameter of the 'single' through-bolt to include five through-bolts, you'll need to *practically* increase the diameter of the outer base plate... Note that this will only help with additional support no matter what the sandwich is.

Current loading being what it is, I don't think you need to through-bolt the outer, non-pulled screws at all. Clearly, all of the force is caused by off-axis forces between the cable and the single through-bolt... those weak screws (and what they've been screwed into) can't accommodate (1) the downward force on the platform vs the (clearly unyielding) support of the cable and (2) the inherent weakness of the L bracket material.

Little piece of stainless the same size of the foot on TOP of it might help, too.

Just muses. Hope it helps.

 

[jimmoore13]

First, just to be a jerk, I'll point out that static loads and dynamic loads are quite different. Something to ponder.

Next, I didn't read all the comments. Surely someone already made these observations and recommendations.

This is a pretty serious structural failur in the making. You may have been pretty close to making a fast trip to the ground.

As best as I can tell from the photos, you have one through bolt and 4 screws per bracket. The screws appear to have torn out of the "plywood" bed base/front wall. The through bolts are holding because of the giant washers on the outside of the bed base. But the bolts are none too sturdy, because it appears they are bent.

The photos show that you can remove the support bars from the brackets and remove the brackets.
I'd hog out the main bolt hole and upsize the center bolt. I'd thru-bolt the 4 dead screws on each bracket, and hopefully the outside washer is large enough to serve as a washer for those small bolts, too. If not, get a larger steel plate of similar thickness to the washer to serve as a washer for the center bolt and the four new smaller bolts. Use new Nylock nuts on all bolts. While you're at it, get new Nylock nuts for the bolts that hold the support bars to the brackets. When you remove the originals, they won't have as much locking power as they did when installed at the factory. They might fall off.

For giggles, I'll assume the center bolt is 1/4", or, at most, 5/16"...because of the way it's bent. Upsize to 3/8". If my size estimates are too small, upsize proportionally.

While you have the support bracket removed, use an anvil and small sledge to straighten out the two brackets. Don't have an anvil? Harbor Freight...but they are a buck a pound or more. I have a little 10# anvil that serves me well. And carefully examine the hole in the support bars. Look for any signs of cracking in the stamped end with the bolt hole.

As for the bed's weight rating, that doesn't mean anything. Somehow it has clearly been exceeded or vastly overstated. The evidence speaks for itself.

Lastly, check all the screws in the sheetmetal platform reinforcements (those V-shaped steel angles along the three sides of the platform). If any of the screws are loose or stripped, consider replacing with small thru-bolts and washers on the outside of the skin. You can use "pinch" nuts on these small bolts and a Dremel Cutoff wheel to trim them flush for a low profile that won't gouge your flesh if you bump one.

P.S. Check the hinge side of the bed while you're at it...it's enduring similar stresses. And let's not forget the upper mounts for the support bars/cables...and any joints/swages holding things together.

 

[ebemis]

Hey there Jim M. All you offered is happily accepted and YES I have thoroughly inspected all other fastening points and other than these L brackets, I am dry and TIGHT! THANKFULLY!!

RhumbleFish once again you are one step in front of me…. Must be that nice Corryvreckan Scotch at work!

Today I re-plumbing my rear left corner AGAIN, this time the water pump side of the world….. more on that in a different post later. Once I was done I had enough time to fully inspect bed and get prepared for my repairs. I DID hear back from FR and as hard as it is for me to believe….. The ONLY aluminum framing in the bed platform is the Edge Banded U-Channel that forms the outside perimeter! The ENTIRE platform is simply the Luan(inside)-foam-Fiberglass(outside) sandwich. I had in my head the idea that they MUST have a plate or beam that the center through bolt perforated but this was NOT the case,

I’ll get pics and post follow-up once I’m fabbed out, my plan is a 2”x5.5” aluminum bar that bridges the through bolt to a 2” overhang onto the 2.5” wide side rail. This will then cover a length from the edge rail to just past the current external washer. I’m planning to keep the center through bolt and add the two outboard wood screws to through bolts as well giving me three separate external screw heads. I think I’m also going to add potentially a steel plate inside over the top of the L-bracket to add some stiffness there too but not 100% on that plan just yet.

More to follow when time permits.

 

[jimmoore13]

I hope all goes well. I guess it just goes to show that a properly built monocoque sandwich can be very strong. Locking nuts will go a long way toward snugging but not overtightening and crushing things. Once you're done, it should be good for another 10 years or more.

 

[ebemis]

Thanks Jim, that’s pretty much all we can do is trudge forward and hope for the best !

I will say however that I am surprised that no others have reported similar issues. We aren’t too heavy combined when sleeping and we don’t do jumping jacks on it either so I remain bewildered at our bracket failures.

 

[ebemis]

Step 1 My Designed Solution… not yet installed…..

I had originally thought trying to add an external bar that bridged the through bolt(s) to the aluminum edge frame was going to be my desired field change;

But I just couldn’t get myself to a place where the added eyebrows/racing stripes would be NON-UGLY! So instead I elected for a less obtrusive solution, larger “washers” and more through bolts…..

Here was what I bought in materials;

Yup, 16 gauge sheet steel, converting center orig thru bolt from 10-24 to 1/4” and 2 outboard sheet metal (into luan wood) screws to 10-24 through bolts.

I cut 3” squares and rounded the corners;

The idea being….

And painting everything (screw heads too) black;

I’ll come back with installed pics hopefully later this week when I get the time to finish the adventure. On a FUNNY note/side, I think it’s hilarious I was using a free Coozie during my garage time that I got from the Tampa RV Super show this year!!!!

 

[ebemis]

Teaser #2……

There were thin rubber gaskets behind the washers so they seal moisture out and I’m guessing prevent metal abrasion/cutting of the fiberglass so….Today I got and fashioned 1/16” thick rubber “washers” same size as my new plates. Speaking of my new 3” square support plates, this shows you the size comparison to the factory washers:

 

[RhumbleFish]

Spread that load!

 

[ebemis]

OK.... STICK A FORK IN ME 'CAUSE I AM DONE!!!!

FIRST a moral (lesson learned) from this rather lengthy story. If I were to do this modification again, the one thing I would do differently is.... DRILL the holes in the external plate AFTER you have drilled through your bed platform to add more "through bolt points" that way all of your screws will line up through the platform AND the inside L-Bracket without issue!! (Don't ask me WHY I know this)

I shared pictures and was working in my garage as much as I could without my rig because I can't leave it parked in my driveway that long or else the City Code Enforcement AND my silly HOA get all Hot & Bothered about it. Suffice it to say, I did the Passenger (curb) Side first and well.. it worked but the Driver (road) Side came out MUCH BETTER...I sometimes can be STUPID but I learn fast!

I added painters tape outside before using the L bracket inside as a "drill from in to out template" in hopes it would prevent any Fiberglass dissection or splitting..
it DID, or I was lucky, either one! I could see there actually IS a VERY THIN layer of aluminum inside the bed sandwich at these holes. I don't know if it carries through the entire platform or was just added where the screw points are but either way, it from what I could see would NOT be thick enough to provide ANY sort of added support to the screws.

Here was my tape outside, and a resulting "tape removed" after drilling look;

I cleaned the fiberglass best I could so that the rubber gasket material I added to the backside of my new plate's would have a nice surface and good seal/contact. Even still, for peace of mind I added a high quality flexible silicone caulk inside each drilled out hole so that I could hopefully block any water on the off-chance it made it past the rubber seal...

NOW here is where my "lesson learned" came in, the holes in the plates I fashioned and drilled over the last week did NOT match/line up with the internal L-bracket holes once they were installed from outside in. I didn't drill the holes with extra play room intentionally, I wanted as much steel behind them as possible. I apparently didn't drill perpendicular enough through the bed platform and as a result, when I tried to get the L-bracket in place things were NOT working out for me. Before anyone asks or recommends, I discovered this PRIOR to oozing that clear sealant into place through a dry-fitting test so AT LEAST I had that going for me!

SO that is the lesson learned, Prep/Clean/AND DRILL the bed platform FIRST, then use the resulting holes coming out of the platform as a template of WHERE to drill your holes in the external "washer/plate" you decide to use.

Regardless of my struggles, it came out looking not too bad for my tastes. As an added layer of protection and preventative measure, I also dressed the top and side edges of my plate with that same clear sealant I showed leaving the bottom edge unsealed so any stray water CAN leak out if it shows up some how.

I don't think if i HAD elected to use thicker external steel or aluminum AND decided to bridge it over to the side rails for added support it would have looked as bad as I feared. Standing back seeing the two 3" plates sitting in the corners seems almost normal, and I think if I had gone thicker AND extended it to the side rail, I would have added at least one more through-bolt half way between the center one and the side rail with a nice plate inside too to anchor and tighten the whole shebang.

In my observation, that L-bracket is a rather POOR selected design solution and a "T-Bracket" would have made much more sense providing rigidity and tension strength across a larger more reliable anchor area in the platform. Coupling something like that with perhaps either an aluminum frame member inside the sandwich, or some sort of rail outside the skin would really be the ideal solution as far as I am concerned... then again I didn't get an Engineering Degree so......

These Opinions and Thoughts are solely the responsibility of the poster and in NO WAY OR MEANS implies or makes any effort to claim they are/were someone else's ISSUE OR PROBLEM!

MANY THANKS to everyone that offered insight, thoughts and idea's as they certainly helped me reach this HOPEFULLY FIXED FOR GOOD revision/solution to my discovery of failing L-Bracket anchor points.

NOW, onto some serious Scotch Drinking as therapeutic recovery... well at least MENTAL recovery!

 

[dseepersad]

After reading this, I need to check my bunks next time I have the camper opened up in 2 weeks, I have a 2022 235s.

 

[RhumbleFish]

235 bros! (granted, there are all those pesky 233 owners out there that I think we play second fiddle to in terms of units sold.) I've got a run to the trailer scheduled for the weekend, time to check it out!

 

[ebemis]

HA TRUE DAT!!

Our first ROO was a 2013 year 233…. Loved it totally but once the kids were grown & gone (I.e. not camping with us anymore) the 235 just caught our attention and never let go!

I’m HOPING FOT THE BEST that ya’ll discover NO DISTORTION in your brackets and that I was simply a “one-off” special case!….. then again I’ve always considered myself “SPECIAL” anyways so I got THAT going for me!

 

[RhumbleFish]

Whelp - managed to get to the trailer this weekend (despite the rain and the major holiday). For easy access, I did go in through the tent end - lowered the bunk, unzipped the screen and then the window covering, and was able to get **directly** at the brackets.

Good thing I did.

On the business end of the bunk (we sleep heads-to-starboard), there was a TINY bit of lift on the furthest forward and most outboard screw (such that it would be impossible to see this if I were coming from INSIDE the coach). Feet end (port) was as solid/straight as it was the day the 235 rolled out of the factory. Have to admit, this is a bit of a surprise (albeit a pleasant one), cause Ed's lighter than I am!

Photos below. You can see the slightly lifted corner when viewing from the 'front,' but can't see it (or get a sense of it), when looking from the back (or the way you'd be looking at it if you just stuck yourself in the bunk end w/o the mattress).

Since this is pretty minor, I **think** I can address simply by leaving the bracket in place, moving the tent end hoop, removing the offending screw, then drilling all the way through the plate, the door, and the outer washer and replace the screw with a nice stainless bolt (akin to the center bolt). I'll measure first, of course, to make sure the washer has enough size to accommodate the new offset bolt (or replace with a new plate, like Ed). But, am not in a rush to do so, with three years of wear and tear on this corner.

It's not the greatest design, and you can easily see why a failure would occur here. @ebemis Ed, question: Have you ever *dropped* your bunk end, such that it fell and came to an abrupt stop (eg, shock loading). Bedroom shenanigans aside, I'm just trying to figure how so much force got loaded into your corner.

Since it's so easy to get a good look at the corner, AND it's a known weak spot in the design, seems like a good idea for owners to take a look at this for themselves.

Just my .02. Hope this helps.

 

[ebemis]

RF....WOWSA!!! I HATE to say NOW I feel better, but I DO! ;-) That is the same access method I used and you are correct, from that end the surprise is almost painful as you have a much better angle at seeing things.

SORRY to see you discovered similar albeit MUCH LESS worrisome than our deformity on your rig, I think what you have explained for recovery is sound HOWEVER........

I CAN offer you that I believe there is a chance that when you drill down through that outboard forward screw hole (the one slightly lifted) you are most likely, based on my efforts/dimensions, to drill right at the edge of the external washer. That would leave you without a whole lot of "external support" behind the head of your screw. BTW... I changed the center existing through bolt out for 1/4" devices and made those external through bolts the size of the OEM center one, the "10-24" dimension devices.

You might want to consider at least having a larger "washer or plate" on hand just in case so you're not having to suspend your repairs whilst you fashion up a larger surface area external "thing." I used that 16 gauge welding steel plate simply because it was the exact same thickness as the factory washer on the outside. The rubber gasket a made from 1/32" stock I bought on Amazon; (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B084NVQM71).

Your "Since it's so easy to get a good look at the corner, AND it's a known weak spot in the design, seems like a good idea for owners to take a look at this for themselves." is an EXCELLENT offering to the community and a prime example of how powerful everyone's sharing discoveries and solutions can help all of us be more prepared and confident ROO-PEEPS!

And YES sorry to say, I did have ONE incident where wind got the better of me when transitioning from one side of the door to another and it DID "drop" from the almost completely closed to the fully open position before I could catch it. Sadly my memory doesn't serve me well enough to say with 100% confidence it happened in cahoots with my discovery, but I am ~90% sure I did a full inspection after that drop and never discovered any damage. I guess there is a chance that "drop" MIGHT have weakened that metal bracket in some way that allowed it to deform slowly over continued use. All shenanigans aside, I still don't have a comfortable and confident pinpointed "cause" I can claim which produced such an effect. Although as previously shared I DO think this is somewhat of a barely marginal engineered solution with so many other options that would have provided a much more robust suspension anchor.

 

[ebemis]

P.S. One additional thought....

"...leaving the bracket in place, moving the tent end hoop, removing the offending screw, then drilling all the way through the plate, the door, and the outer..."​

I particularly like this angle of attack! When you do convert that screw to a through bolt, I would expect it to flatten your bracket deformity right back out. SO based on my initial drilling errors, if I was going to do your repair with/for you I would replace your outer washer with a larger plate. I would ONLY drill the CENTER hole and get that plate mounted right where you want it (no rubber gasket yet, I'll explain later) snugged up nicely to its place. Once you have it in place, drill any additional screw holes you want from the INSIDE going OUT that way you won't end up with any sort of alignment issues when coming back for final mounting. If you prefer to drill your new external plate in stages (smaller bit working up to size you want) this would still work, just simply use the FIRST/smallest drill on that hole without going through the external metal plate, but enough to mark where you want that hole drilled. THEN you can remove the plate from your rig and finish drilling to the size(s) you want.

The "no rubber gasket yet" thought is because my one mistake there was trying to drive a screw (same would happen with drill bit) through the plate/rubber/bunk platform made the rubber "catch" the screw threads and TWIRL/WRAP itself into a bunch completely ripping and destroying the nice rubber gasket I had so lovingly created! :-(​

When you make the new rubber gasket material, if you don't have some sort of punch to make a screw size diameter hole in the material, just cut a small "x" with a tile knife and then push your screws through the metal, the rubber, the bunk door and finally that internal L-bracket. When you go to mount the nuts, just try not to spin the screws because it can catch/bunch the rubber and destroy your effort.

BEST of luck! If you have any concerns or questions during your effort holler, I am more than willing to share anything I learned if it helps someone else resolve issues.

Ed

 

[dseepersad]

I'm getting really nervous about checking ours. I'm trying to remember if our front bunk ever "fell" when we were opening it up. Sometimes the seal can be really tight and I would go inside to push while hubby was outside pulling. We will see in 10 more days I guess, unless I can talk him into going out to the storage location with me next Monday or Tuesday to check it out.

 

[RhumbleFish]

I'm getting really nervous about checking ours. I'm trying to remember if our front bunk ever "fell" when we were opening it up. Sometimes the seal can be really tight and I would go inside to push while hubby was outside pulling. We will see in 10 more days I guess, unless I can talk him into going out to the storage location with me next Monday or Tuesday to check it out.

I wouldn't fret, DS. It either will be or won't be a little pulled (likely not, without a catastrophic event in your past). Even then, the single through-bolt (and outer washer) is what's truly carrying the load... the bracket deforming is more about the bad design, and lack of real support by the black wood screws, rather than any inherent instability with the platform.

A note about having to close up the tent end - this is not really impacting the bracket we've been talking about, but you don't want tenting material in the 'gap' that you are trying to seal (think about driving into a rainstorm without a good seal on the front). Plus, the more modern clamps really do a nice job of pulling the bunk ends tight. If it's REALLY hard to close the end, that's usually a good indicator that there's tenting material in the gap. The "fan trick" (closing up the coach and turning any/both/all exhaust fans to max) can help suck in tenting material, and pushing it in by hand (and checking twice) is a great way to make sure you're not getting tenting in the seals.

in the meantime, relax, don't fret, and get read to enjoy your camping trip!

Just my .02. hope this helps!

 

[dseepersad]

Thanks RF! We are always really careful with making sure the tent ends are not in the gap, check from outside and inside. We have used the fan trick with good results, I think those are the times that we get a really good seal which makes it a bit harder to open the next time around.

 

[ebemis]

Hey dseepersad… ya’ what RhumbleFish said PLUS!!!!… double the “don’t fret” thinking, even IF you find a bent bracket, now you know how to fix it!!!!!

If you missed it, a good & easy way to inspect is from outside. Once you drop the bed you can get zippers started in the “unzip direction” with a finger nail/tip. All you need to do is get enough room on the unzipped to reach in and finish the job. From the outside those brackets are real easy to access and eyeball.

Oh, on the “hard to open” thought too, here has been our experiences;

1. I try to lightly dust the door seal rubber gaskets with baby powder every once & awhile. I put an old sock on my hand, shake the powder into it & then pat the gasket lightly along its length.
2. I believe there are also sprays others might recommend using. But FWIW, the baby powder has worked great for us.
3. The longer our rig sits un-used/closed AND the hotter that time is, the more we find the door sort of “sticky shut.” In those cases i try to “peel” the door off the gasket starting at the bottom and reaching as high as I can on each side…. I just finger pull on the black aluminum with my knuckles on the face of the trailer wall. Not reaching for an open immediately, just working back & forth each side a time or two seems to break it free, at least in our case.

 

[dseepersad]

We got all set up at our campsite and i was able to check those brackets and the hinges. We are good, no bending or separation, woo hoo!