Coming to a Ford near you!!!!!!!! Isata 6 Series (Maybe F-Series)

[milkman55]

Dynamax started using the Slim Rack Plus slide system about 2-4 months ago. I was told that all models use that new system unless they have hydraulic slides which are mainly on the Freightliner chassis products.

https://lci-support-doc.s3.amazonaws.com/manuals/slideouts/slimrack/ccd-0007721.pdf

 

[bclemens]

The new Dynamax Isata6 the on the F550/600 chassis looks very similar to the new Bravado from East to West RV, also a part of the Forest River Family. With a lot of shared items across the various Forest River platforms, what are some the key differentiators to drive a potential consumer to the Isata versus Bravado? Secondly, any update on a shorter (ideally under 28 feet with no slide) Isata 5 or 6 that retains a 96 inch or narrower body?

lol....funny enough, the proto was pretty much our design.

They had some Ford chassis come in. I was interested in building on it, so I asked if they wanted to "share" tooling on the front cap. They said yes. When I asked how long ago they had sent over the CAD "shell" to the designer to start the cap design, they said "what shell?". So my team took lead on design. They used most, if not all of our design work (structural, electrical, floor plan). They changed up some appliances on the proto I think. After the proto, I think it was a higher price point than they wanted to be in, so they were going to take out the multiplex and make a bunch of other changes. I have not seen a production model, so I can't really say where they ended up at the end.

 

[chaching]

…
I would have bought the Isata 5 instead of the Thor had it been on the Ford chassis back then. The Dodge / RAM was the only thing that stopped me at the time….

Just curious Judge, are there anythings specifically about the Dodge versus the Ford ? I no experience with either platform, but, am trying to get as much info as possible.

 

[Loadtoad-FRF]

Is there any chance an Aquahot system would be an option instead of the propane?

 

[bclemens]

Not at this time. The 250D is very expensive for what you get (and from what I have seen not super reliable).

I would be open to something like the Truma Combi, or if we need more hot water, something like Timberline. Combi would be perfect as it is lightweight, diesel fueled and very efficient. Unlimited hot water is the only concern.

 

[png31]

Grand Design has gone public with their F-600 based super C. The first floor plan looks similar to the Isata 5 30FW, but with the rear bedroom/bathroom reversed. A few initial observations:

Use of swing out windows in the slide sidewalls. As Brian Clemens has repeatedly pointed out, retracting a slide with one of those windows left open is going to be an expensive lesson. Seems like an obvious design oversight.

Lack of an obvious escape window in the bedroom. Perhaps the swing out windows in the bedroom slide are large enough to satisfy the standard for an emergency exit.

Specing a BDS 2” lift with Fox shocks while retaining stock tire size. It would be interesting to see how that set-up compares to a full Liquid Spring suspension with Equalizer delete with stock tire size on both a performance/handling and cost basis.

GD seems to be making a real effort a quieting down the air conditioning.

Using up an entire outside compartment for the fresh water tank, instead of locating the tank under the bed seems an interesting choice for a “four seasons coach”.

Be interested in learning the differences between the “new” Lippert slide system and the Slim Rack Plus.

Certainly looks like the F-600 super C space is heating up!

 

[vlamgat]

No news of an updated 5500. https://www.cnbc.com/2025/01/07/ste...y-pickup-trucks.html?__source=androidappshare

 

[vlamgat]

We have the 28SS designed for the F600 already and it is ready to go if we want, but CCC is not an issue on that one in the Ram currently.

Before I bring that out, I would want to explore something even smaller. I also have another project in the works that is taking a lot of my time....so trying not to do too much at once.

Following with interest. I have plotted my 28SS on our shop CAD program to see what the space trade offs could be to improve functionality and maybe shorten or lengthen by 12 inches. I could not get any improvement out of the increase other than a little more room in the shower, storage under the sink and a larger refrigerator. Going down 12 inches eliminates the rear bed IMO as it gets to be too small or needs to be 2 singles like some of the vans with one side possibly convertible to a desk/seat by raising the bed tray and having the table fold out. I lose both lower draw sets with this and there are issues as to where the FW tank gets placed and its size.

 

[Paddock]

Grand Design has gone public with their F-600 based super C. The first floor plan looks similar to the Isata 5 30FW, but with the rear bedroom/bathroom reversed. A few initial observations:

Use of swing out windows in the slide sidewalls. As Brian Clemens has repeatedly pointed out, retracting a slide with one of those windows left open is going to be an expensive lesson. Seems like an obvious design oversight.

…..

Had the same thought when I saw it, slide in window open….

Be interested in learning the differences between the “new” Lippert slide system and the Slim Rack Plus.
……

This caught my attention too as a passing reference to 4 point adjustments vs 2. Waiting to hear more details on any Slimrack “advancements”. Did also note not branded Slimrack in referring to it. Hope more details come out at Tampa Show.

 

[V6TOY4X]

The F600 gives us a lot more capacity to play with, but now Ford says we can't sell the 2025 chassis into California, which complicates things.

Well things may have just got a bit better for CA in 2025

California withdraws diesel truck ban and other clean-air rules ahead of Trump taking office - NewsBreak

California regulators say the Trump administration is unlikely to approve the rules and that they have no choice but to abandon groundbreaking regulations

local.newsbreak.com

 

[SunnyWA]

I'm in love the with Isata 3 Freedom edition but my husband is 6'6" and it would be just to tight of quarters for him. We really liked the Isata 5 when we were at the dealer but we aren't really big Dodge fans . So - up until now we had shifted gears to the Entegra because it's on the Ford chassis - but now the unicorn may have landed. I'm super excited to see the Isata 6... Is there any guestamate on when we might be able to see some sneak peak photos of the inside? Hopeful we could swap that mattress for a custom to fit my husband. And - this might show my lack of knowledge about motorhomes (we have only had pull and 5th wheels in the past) any reason none have outdoor kitchens? Possibly on a slide tray in part of the huge storage in the back?

Judge - I love everyone of your posts - especially when you were comparing he 3 to the Wayfarer because those were our top two choice until we just bagged it and decided we needed to step up to the bigger chassis. Thank you for all of your knowledge.

Thanks everyone....

 

[Hach]

Well things may have just got a bit better for CA in 2025

California withdraws diesel truck ban and other clean-air rules ahead of Trump taking office - NewsBreak

California regulators say the Trump administration is unlikely to approve the rules and that they have no choice but to abandon groundbreaking regulations

local.newsbreak.com

Wow! That's great news. I guess elections really do have consequences. Not political just observational.

"Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else."

 

[Judge64]

I saw the write-up on the Grand Designs F-Series. I think it is clear that the Ford F-600 is the clear winner in this size Super C.

I'm not sure how the SureSlide can make both X and Y movements like the interview I read seemed to indicate. Based on the attached diagram it sure looks a lot like the Schwintek mechanism. They must have just changed the H-Column so it can float a bit.

Maybe there is a new version that has not beed documented yet online..... but I was hoping maybe LCI partnered with Vroom for a more robust slide mechanism.

I will say I like that they made a lot of suspension improvements and mounting the propane tank between the frame rails is a nice to free up storage space. They also use the same windows as my Freedom Edition, which I do like.... and they said there is a warning on the FireFly about putting the side windows in before retracting the slide. The compartmentalized solar panels are also great and I am surprised to see 1000W.

In this video they talk about Vroom but they are incorrect... Vroom is a floating side system. I still see weaknesses in the SureSlide looking at the diagram compared to Vroom. Based on the video the A/C seems super quiet. Don't know how reliable the Gree units are though. It also sounds like they beefed up the front cap and cab-over to account for all of the chassis bouncing and twisting based on the second video.

I know there are some concerns / issues with the new motorized introductions from Grand Design but there are a lot of things I do like. They are making a run at the space and the aesthetics are decent as well.

 

[FlaNative]

Judge64: Where did you get the Manufacturer Quality Metrics? Does it also address all types of rv's? And who's opinion is this: customer, manufacturer or dealer?
This chart would be wonderful to have when we're on the search for a new or better quality RV. Please provide the link to that chart. I can't click on it, so it doesn't work.
It's sad to see such bad quality in the rv field when we pay tens of thousands, even hundreds of thousands of dollars, only to be sorely disappointed when on the road.
Thank you for the chart...interesting.

 

[Judge64]

Judge64: Where did you get the Manufacturer Quality Metrics? Does it also address all types of rv's? And who's opinion is this: customer, manufacturer or dealer?
This chart would be wonderful to have when we're on the search for a new or better quality RV. Please provide the link to that chart. I can't click on it, so it doesn't work.
It's sad to see such bad quality in the rv field when we pay tens of thousands, even hundreds of thousands of dollars, only to be sorely disappointed when on the road.
Thank you for the chart...interesting.

NIRVC publishes data for the manufacturers they sell and service. I wouldn't say it is data that is be-all-end-all since it is only based on their own dealerships...... but it can give you an idea of which manufacturers have the most or least issues based on their experience serving those units.

Manufacturer Defects Per Unit

Compare NIRVC's Defects Per Unit data collected across different RV Manufacturers we work with.

www.nirvc.com

 

[Judge64]

Just curious Judge, are there anythings specifically about the Dodge versus the Ford ? I no experience with either platform, but, am trying to get as much info as possible.

Some of my opinion is personal experience and some anecdotal experience so you can take it for what its worth. I've owned Ford and GM Trucks and I know people who have owned some Dodge / RAM trucks.


Ford

From a quality and reliability perspective, I have never had a major mechanical issue with a Ford truck. My Super C was an F-550 Chassis and I had no issues with the powertrain and suspension in 40,000 miles of lugging around 20,000lbs and towing a Jeep. That includes a 13,000 mile trip to Alaska on the roughest roads you will ever experience.

The F-Series wouldn't be the best selling truck if it wasn't reliable so there is that data to back up its reliability. I know a lot of people with Ford F-Series trucks and they all have had good experiences as well.


GM

I have a GMC Sierra 1500 AT4 with their newish 6-cylinder 3.0L Diesel. I really like the truck and haven't had any major issues in 60,000 miles. The power and fuel economy of the 3L diesel is amazing.

However, I can't say I'm totally happy with GM. Before the AT4 I had a GMC Canyon Denali with their 4-cylinder Diesel. It threw a rod at 69,000 miles..... and the powertrain warranty in 2018 was only 60,000 miles. GM wouldn't assist so I only went back to GM because they at least would give me some trade-in value on a new Truck. Turns out after a lot of research GM has a bad batch of piston wrist-pins and there was a surprising number of engine failures between 20,000 - 70,000 miles. There were many others who got well over 100,000 miles without any issues. If I pushed harder I might have gotten GM to do something but it was during COVID and getting parts was an issue then and I needed I new truck.

I also had a Chevy Silverado 1500 before all of these trucks and it was ok. The fuel economy of their v8 flex-fuel gasser was terrible.... especially when towing...... but it was a decent truck.

The GM diesels did get amazing fuel economy. I was getting upper 30's MPG with the 4-cylinder and I get close to 30MPG with the 6-cylinder and that is with a much heavier chassis. Instead of this EV fixation caused by the government, US manufacturers would be better served with diesels for better fuel economy standards.


RAM

I have known some people with the the Dodge / RAM. The Cummins engine is a good product. Cummins is certainly a leader in diesel power plants. But the rest of the RAM hasn't been quite as reliable for people I know who have had them. I also never found the RAM all that aesthetically pleasing to the eye. That's just personal preference.

Then there is the mothership, Stellantis. They are bleeding money right now and they know they need to make some difficult decisions. Their sales are slipping within a lot of their brands and they have already said they are going to have to cut some brands to get financially healthy.

Will they cut RAM? In 2023 they only sold ~450,000 RAM's while Ford and GM sold over 1M trucks respectively. RAM has been losing market share and they haven't found a way to stop the bleeding.

They could cut Jeep. Personally....I hate my Jeep. They are not worth the price tag and the quality leaves a lot to be desired. My 2018 developed corrosion all over the body in just a couple years. Jeep repainted it under warranty but it is a systemic quality problem. The dealer told me if you look close enough you will find corrosion on almost any Jeep.... especially around the door hinges. Believe it or not they mate two dissimilar metals without any coatings or primer before assembly. That is a recipe for galvanic corrosion.

Just my personal experience with Jeep quality is enough to keep me away from Stellantis products.... even if I had the money to blow on a Maserati!

If I have to replace my Jeep and need another tow vehicle, it will be a Ford Bronco.


And the winner is......

So that is a long-winded way to answer your question. If I was going to build a Super C in this price-point market, my first choice would be the F-600 chassis.

Grand Design has made the decision to jump into this market with the F-Series. Renegade, Jayco, Entegra and Thor all use the F-Series as well. I think there is good reason they are using the F-Series chassis.

Coachmen is using the Chevy 5500.

To the best of my knowledge Dynamax is the only one using the RAM...... but Brian seems to be bucking the Coachmen trend and exploring the F-Series for Dynamax instead of going straight to the Chevy. I think that is a good move.

 

[bclemens]

Another thing to note on those acrylic windows. If you do NOT, press the button on the handle and turn it, it will break the window latch. I have seen it happen on dealer lots, time and time again. One of the #1 parts we send out is window handles for the acrylic window. (It is why we have asked for a red button on contrasting color).

When that happens, the window gets a bit "floppy", it does not seal tight. leaving them open is certainly a concern, but having you think they are closed tight, when they are not, is the bigger concern.

It is not a matter of IF, but when.

 

[Judge64]

Another thing to note on those acrylic windows. If you do NOT, press the button on the handle and turn it, it will break the window latch. I have seen it happen on dealer lots, time and time again. One of the #1 parts we send out is window handles for the acrylic window. (It is why we have asked for a red button on contrasting color).

When that happens, the window gets a bit "floppy", it does not seal tight. leaving them open is certainly a concern, but having you think they are closed tight, when they are not, is the bigger concern.

It is not a matter of IF, but when.

I like the windows but the latches…. how should I say it….. they suck.

I had several replaced at the factory because the buttons depressed but the latches wouldn’t lock. Half the ones they installed still don’t lock. I just accepted it vs having them replace them again before I left realizing it is just a weak design.

The red button is a nice touch but the window manufacturer needs to redesign the latch.

 

[xrpb11a]

I like the windows but the latches…. how should I say it….. they suck.

I had several replaced at the factory because the buttons depressed but the latches wouldn’t lock. Half the ones they installed still don’t lock. I just accepted it vs having them replace them again before I left realizing it is just a weak design.

The red button is a nice touch but the window manufacturer needs to redesign the latch.

I broke the first one I tried to turn, never seeing the black button. The good thing is they are cheap and take 60 seconds to replace. Some of my latches don't catch on the first try but I apply a little bit of inward pressure and they latch quickly. I guess I got lucky with the tech that installed my latches.

 

[vlamgat]

Dynamax started using the Slim Rack Plus slide system about 2-4 months ago. I was told that all models use that new system unless they have hydraulic slides which are mainly on the Freightliner chassis products.

https://lci-support-doc.s3.amazonaws.com/manuals/slideouts/slimrack/ccd-0007721.pdf

And this adds some more color to the F600 and Slim Rack question:

Grand Design Lineage Series F: Behind the Scenes of the All-New Super C

Camper Report sits down with Grand Design's Series F project manager to gain insight into the design of the all-new Super C motorhome.

camperreport.com