Correct procedure for a remote propane fill

[gremlin]

I've searched this forum, you tube and the web in general and haven't found anywhere that talks about this. What is the correct procedure for filling with the remote fills like on the Europa 31ss?

I ask because I had my propane filled the other day and the fellow doing it just screwed in a nozzle and fired up the pump, it transferred a bunch of propane but he never opened the bleed valve to the right of the filler, and I thought that needed to be done at some point in the procedure?

I seem to recall when portable tanks are filled they use a screwdriver and open up a bleed screw or something when they start, is this necessary with the remote fill?

thank you

 

[Tony Ramirez]

Usually they open the bleeder, and at 3/4 of a tank it starts to hiss out, then he shuts off the pump & closes the bleeder. You can only fill a tank 3/4 fullm my 24gal tank will only hold 18 gal.

 

[M_I_A]

I just had my propane filled at a Loves truck stop (Brush Colorado) and the attendant said they were no longer allowed to touch anything other than the fill port. He just connected the hose, turned on the propane pump and let it go until it stopped. It filled slowly and only to 41% on the gauge.

I've always had problems with slow filling. The previous station opened the bleeder and managed to get about 60% on the gauge. Something is not quite right with my setup but, at this point, I'm just resigned to dealing with partial fills until something plugs completely.

 

[D W]

If you don't open the bleeder valve while filling you'll never get a satisfactory fill. It must stay open until a vapor starts coming out, then it is closed and the pump is shut off. If they don't or refuse to open the bleeder I suggest you find another propane vendor.

 

[dangerranger]

If you are pumping propane, it should get to at or near 80% of full. Opening the bleeder is only necessary if you have air in the system, the propane tank is hot, or you are trying to gravity feed the tank.
as long as you are pumping relatively cool liquid propane into your tank the pressure difference causes your tank to cool, and condense the vaporized propane back into a liquid. except in very hot weather, you should be able to pump the tank back to about 80% full again.

Your small BBQ size tanks though have a small siphon tube that extends down from the blow off to a level about 80% full. Those tanks don't have a fuel gauge to determine fuel level, so you open the blow off and fill till the liquid starts to spit out and stop there.

The newest gen of BBQ tanks have an Overfill Protection float that stops the fill when the tank gets over 80% full. you could fill those without the bleed valve, but most use it out of habit. DR

 

[Twinboat]

If you are pumping propane, it should get to at or near 80% of full. Opening the bleeder is only necessary if you have air in the system, the propane tank is hot, or you are trying to gravity feed the tank.
as long as you are pumping relatively cool liquid propane into your tank the pressure difference causes your tank to cool, and condense the vaporized propane back into a liquid. except in very hot weather, you should be able to pump the tank back to about 80% full again.

Your small BBQ size tanks though have a small siphon tube that extends down from the blow off to a level about 80% full. Those tanks don't have a fuel gauge to determine fuel level, so you open the blow off and fill till the liquid starts to spit out and stop there.

The newest gen of BBQ tanks have an Overfill Protection float that stops the fill when the tank gets over 80% full. you could fill those without the bleed valve, but most use it out of habit. DR

This is the answer !!!!

All propane tanks now have OPD fill ports. OPD is Overfill Protection Device. They shut off the liquid propane flow at 80% tanks liquid capacity.
The bleed valve is a holdover from the days before OPD was mandated. In most cases, the OPD will stop the flow before the bleeder valve spits liquid propane.

 

[D W]

The vapor purge has nothing to do with the OPD float. It only shows that it is being displaced by "liquid" petroleum. There's a reason this bleed screw is on the propane valve.

 

[vlamgat]

This is the answer !!!!

All propane tanks now have OPD fill ports. OPD is Overfill Protection Device. They shut off the liquid propane flow at 80% tanks liquid capacity.
The bleed valve is a holdover from the days before OPD was mandated. In most cases, the OPD will stop the flow before the bleeder valve spits liquid propane.

Correct. It will stop the flow at any level and in my case never more than 50% on the gauge. Why? No one seems to know. I replaced the entire system and only got one refill to 80%. After that, no more than 50%.

 

[5picker]

Correct. It will stop the flow at any level and in my case never more than 50% on the gauge. Why? No one seems to know. I replaced the entire system and only got one refill to 80%. After that, no more than 50%.

Could you expand on what the "entire system" consisted of?
Did you replace with like parts from the factory or did you source parts somewhere else?

 

[vlamgat]

Could you expand on what the "entire system" consisted of?
Did you replace with like parts from the factory or did you source parts somewhere else?

Since you asked: The tank, the regulator and manifold, the remote filler hose and the remote input port. The input port turned out to be the problem. When tested it flowed zero, completely locked up. It's very difficult to get this job done because the propane permit laws of most states won't allow this stuff to be sold to anyone but a licensed fitter. And licensed fitters are generally only going to be RV builders. None of the dealers are going to be able to do this and as far as I know, this was the first system replacement Dynamax had ever done. It's a messy difficult and potentially dangerous business and without the cooperation of an OEM, such a system failure was seemingly not repairable. Industrial propane people won't touch RVs.

 

[bclemens]

It is the only one we have ever done, because up to this point, every other customer with an issue was able to find a local vendor to correct whatever the issue was. Changing out the fill valve was easy....but up to that point, every one you talked to said it had to be the tank and that we were wrong. So we replaced it all, only to find it was the fill as expected all along. Even we make mistakes (should have gone through all the testing ourselves)

 

[vlamgat]

That is indeed what happened but if you will recall, it's tough to test the remote refill because it has to be removed in its entirety to be put on the test rig which means finding some pinchable hose that can withstand a vice grip without being permanently distorted so a test was done and gas flowed out when a dowl was used to open the valve. That implied to all of us that the valve was working. What we did not know and discovered when it was replaced, was that the valve can flow perfectly well one way but not the other.

 

[5picker]

That is indeed what happened but if you will recall, it's tough to test the remote refill because it has to be removed in its entirety to be put on the test rig which means finding some pinchable hose that can withstand a vice grip without being permanently distorted so a test was done and gas flowed out when a dowl was used to open the valve. That implied to all of us that the valve was working. What we did not know and discovered when it was replaced, was that the valve can flow perfectly well one way but not the other.

Am I correct in reading you are still having issues? (and in my case never more than 50% on the gauge. - your words)

 

[vlamgat]

Am I correct in reading you are still having issues? (and in my case never more than 50% on the gauge. - your words)

Yes. Tried to get a refill with the gauge at 15% and Firefly at Empty and could only get 5 gallons raising the level to 50%. Tried twice at different suppliers. Both opened the bleed valve, saw gas coming out and closed it before opening the refill valve. Neither left the bleed valve open making comments that it was unnecessary as propane was coming out. I never saw propane, just propane vapor.

 

[Kholder]

Yes. Tried to get a refill with the gauge at 15% and Firefly at Empty and could only get 5 gallons raising the level to 50%. Tried twice at different suppliers. Both opened the bleed valve, saw gas coming out and closed it before opening the refill valve. Neither left the bleed valve open making comments that it was unnecessary as propane was coming out. I never saw propane, just propane vapor.

It sounds like your tank is full and the gauges are incorrect. Have you tried this simple method to see if your tank is around 80% after a fill? See link. Pour warm water down the tank and feel where the warm and cold meet. That’s how full it is. Little harder for onboard propane tanks but it should work. My class C gauge always shows 70% when full. I use a Stay-A-while to connect external tanks and try not to use the onboard tank much.

 

[TitanMike]

It sounds like your tank is full and the gauges are incorrect. Have you tried this simple method to see if your tank is around 80% after a fill? See link. Pour warm water down the tank and feel where the warm and cold meet. That’s how full it is. Little harder for onboard propane tanks but it should work. My class C gauge always shows 70% when full. I use a Stay-A-while to connect external tanks and try not to use the onboard tank much.

This trick, using water, only works if propane has been drawn from the tank rapidly enough for the evaporation of liquid in tank to cause tank temp to drop below 32F.

Low flow use like with an absorption refrigerator will not reliably make this method work.

A nice accurate method is to use one of these:


Inexpensive and can weigh up to 100#.

Weigh tank then subtract Tare Weight stamped in handle/collar for weight of remaining propane. Won't work in MH tanks but for all the portable tanks they're great.

 

[vlamgat]

Not practical to do this with an ASME mounted tank. The gauge worked for both the previous refills inasmuch as the amount it took corresponded to the amount needed to get to 80%.
So it's really about how the refill is accomplished and so far this thread shows that there is no definite method. My guess is that few either watch or understand what's happening during their Asme refills.

 

[mri]

My 28SS would not fill last week at 60%.propane guy said to tap on the tank with a mallet, it was cold and raining so I waited till this morning and at 50% with a beating works fine now took7.5 gallons

 

[vlamgat]

My 28SS would not fill last week at 60%.propane guy said to tap on the tank with a mallet, it was cold and raining so I waited till this morning and at 50% with a beating works fine now took7.5 gallons

Thanks for that reminder. It frees up the OPD which can swing up and block the flow with the initial pressure spike of a refill. I will give it a try.

 

[Paddock]

Most I have seen % wise on Firefly screen is 72%, at ~40% it will take 10 gallons plus. Have not crawled under it to see when "Firefly full" at ~72% what the tank physical gauge reads (assume 80%ish). When Firefly drops below 50% I fill at local TSC. on up to 3-week fall trip, with a "full" tank, running low on propane has not been an issue (yet).

I have contemplated checking into reseting Firefly range "settings" to account for / extrapolate 72% (or 80%) to 100%, but life...