DC Circuits

[codefoster]

I bought a 2021 Rockwood Geo Pro 16BH. In the WFCO panel, the AC branches are all nicely labelled, but the DC circuits are not. I could go unplugging things and taking note of what lost power, but I decided to ask here first to see if anyone can tell me what the factory default was for this year for those circuits. I'll obviously verify anything I'm told. There are 6 circuits and the fuse values on 1-5 are 15A and on 6 it's 30A. After those 6 circuit fuses, there's a reverse battery protection fuse that is 40A. Thanks!

 

[jlankford]

Is there not a customized printed label affixed to the inside of the panel door?

I can offer how my RP-192 is laid out. It appears these are very similar models under different brands. Do you have a 12V fridge? That is likely the biggest difference. Your fuse order might be different, but the pic of my label should give you a better idea of which devices to expect are running on 12V.

 

[codefoster]

It has a label with the AC branches, but not the DC circuits like yours does. I do have a 12V fridge. Thanks for the picture of yours. I'm guessing the 30A labelled "BATTERY" on yours is your reverse battery protector. Other than that, your awning is your only 30A, so I'm guessing my 30A is my awning too. Is the "THERMOSTAT" circuit the DC board for controlling a gas furnace? My thermostat itself is just a microvolt thermostat (where if you touch the wires together it turns the furnace on) but I'm guessing even on yours, that circuit is actually the control board of the furnace. I'll go test it now.

 

[codefoster]

All right, I'm blind. There was a DC label there. It still took some deciphering though. Here's what it shows for posterity followed by what I discovered testing...

CIRCUIT 1: MONITOR PANEL (15A)
CIRCUIT 2: HITCH LIGHT (15A)
CIRCUIT 3: APPLIANCES (15A)
CIRCUIT 4: BATH FAN (15A)
CIRCUIT 5: RADIO TV (15A)
CIRCUIT 6: BATTERY (30A)

The APPLIANCES circuit controls the fridge and furnace. The MONITOR PANEL controls everything that's connected to the iRV panel (all lights, awning, slide out, etc.).

I'm wondering why you have a 30A circuit dedicated to your awning when my awning fits on a 15A circuit with the lights and slide out.

I also wonder, since I have a 30A BATTERY circuit in addition to my 40A reverse protection, if CIRCUIT 6 is simply the fuse for the battery charging.

 

[jlankford]

All right, I'm blind. There was a DC label there. It still took some deciphering though. Here's what it shows for posterity followed by what I discovered testing...

CIRCUIT 1: MONITOR PANEL (15A)
CIRCUIT 2: HITCH LIGHT (15A)
CIRCUIT 3: APPLIANCES (15A)
CIRCUIT 4: BATH FAN (15A)
CIRCUIT 5: RADIO TV (15A)
CIRCUIT 6: BATTERY (30A)

The APPLIANCES circuit controls the fridge and furnace. The MONITOR PANEL controls everything that's connected to the iRV panel (all lights, awning, slide out, etc.).

I'm wondering why you have a 30A circuit dedicated to your awning when my awning fits on a 15A circuit with the lights and slide out.

I also wonder, since I have a 30A BATTERY circuit in addition to my 40A reverse protection, if CIRCUIT 6 is simply the fuse for the battery charging.

Fuse #6 in this panel is the input from the battery to the rest of the 12V circuits distributed on the panel. Fuse #6 is also the charging current path from the converter to the battery. Fuse #7 is the reverse-polarity protection fuse.

I can't answer why my awning is on a 30A circuit. I believe it pulls about 9A when its running.

 

[Aussieguy]

on a similar thread I looked at the REVERSE fuses

for fun/curious.....
simulated blown fuse by pulling them out
battery still powered everything

looks like the reverse fuses only disconnect the the converter from battery
so if your converter is the only thing being protected if you reverse the positive /negative
all other things are free to blow up and produce blue smoke IF they are sensitive to reversal

many things such as 12v motors don't care about it .. motors will simply spin the other way
where with radios.... you risk breaking them or they can suffer permanent brain damage,
one person reported his radio started talking with Australian accent.

 

[codefoster]

...looks like the reverse fuses only disconnect the the converter from battery...

Is it possible that pulling the fuse out isn't a good test? Perhaps you'd have to put -12V across it to simulate the true reverse polarity condition?

 

[Aussieguy]

Is it possible that pulling the fuse out isn't a good test? Perhaps you'd have to put -12V across it to simulate the true reverse polarity condition?

pulling the fuse....... is the same as if a fuse that has blown ( no continuity )

those 2 reverse fuses most people have ...
not protect the 12v system from a reverse battery connection

 

[TacomaJoe]

pulling the fuse....... is the same as if a fuse that has blown ( no continuity )

those 2 reverse fuses most people have ...
not protect the 12v system from a reverse battery connection

On my WF-8955 the converter feeds the panel directly and powers all the 12V loads via the fuses. That converter feed also goes through 2 40A reverse polarity fuses to the battery. On my panel if I hook the battery up wrong, the fuses blow protecting everything and the converter will still power the 12V loads.

OPs panel is different with two fuse circuits. Seems like the idea was to save the converter from the reverse polarity but still power everything else.

I will also encourage OP and everyone to dig into the fuse circuits and determine what is on each one. My monitor panel is on the fuses labeled PUMP. It pays to learn these things in advance.

 

[Aussieguy]

just did a follow up on the 2 reverse fuses
IF just ONE of the fuses is blown/removed the converter still provides power to 12v
remove BOTH... no power from converter to fuse panel

The strange fuse configuration in the photo
no idea what the 2 bottom fuses are
so do as Tacoma Joe said... pull em and find out

and just how many people carry enough spare fuses and a flashlight in a easy to find location?
those pesky fuses panels........... I swear, knows when it is the middle of the night!



EDIT..... additional
Notice the BLUE led light
Auto detect has switched to Lithium
green would = lead acid / AGM mode

 

[codefoster]

You know what's weird is my converter is the WF-8735P but my battery is lithium. I asked the previous owner and he said he definitely bought it that way but thought it was original too. I'm wondering if the first owner upgraded the battery but not the converter. Anyone know all the possible consequences of continuing to charge a lithium battery with a lead acid charging profile? It's been like this for at least a couple years so perhaps the damage is done?

 

[jlankford]

You know what's weird is my converter is the WF-8735P but my battery is lithium. I asked the previous owner and he said he definitely bought it that way but thought it was original too. I'm wondering if the first owner upgraded the battery but not the converter. Anyone know all the possible consequences of continuing to charge a lithium battery with a lead acid charging profile? It's been like this for at least a couple years so perhaps the damage is done?

I think no harm. I have an WF-8735-AD. For the first year of use it was never in Lithium mode. Float voltage was ~13.6 which is good enough to charge LFP to full, albeit slowly. The only downside is you may not be top-balancing the batteries. I know my batteries were being maintained at full by the non-LFP operation of the converter because of two things - 1) I had fully charged the batteries initially using an LiTime LFP 20amp charger, and 2) I have a shunt monitor that would let me see if the batteries were not reaching a full charge during normal operation cycles with the converter.

I only saw the "blue light" in the WF-8735 after contacting WFCO customer servvice and receiving a service jumper that forces the unit into LFP mode. I don't think this mode charges the battery any more fully, but it does it faster with a higher charging current.

 

[Aussieguy]

disconnect battery

use a multimeter to measure the VOLTAGE at the ends of the battery cable coming from the converter
if you are getting about 13.8v your lithium will get to 100% eventually
leave the shorepower connected for as long as possible


if you NOT getting 13.8v at the battery end
measure the output of the converter ... if the converter is putting out 13.8 and the battery end of the wire is less than 13.6 (1% loss) look at adding an extra wire or replace existing with a fatter one.
also check the battery and converter negative connections to frame

otherwise add some solar and just use the converter for the bulk of the charging
solar will top it off ....plus may allow you more time to boondock

 

[jlankford]

The WFCO operation manual specifies 13.6VDC as the float voltage for both LFP and FLA operation. I don't expect he will ever read 13.8 on this system.

 

[Aussieguy]

if you only get 13.6 makes balancing the cells more difficult
my batteries won't start balancing until it gets over 13.6
I could change the balancing start voltage ... because my battery allows changes via bluetooth

I could get a small charger or use solar to help in balancing

 

[codefoster]

I'm going to use the Dakota charger that came with my battery to top it off now and then and make sure it gets high enough to balance, but I'm going to replace the system with a proper Victron eventually.

 

[Bob K4TAX]

just did a follow up on the 2 reverse fuses
IF just ONE of the fuses is blown/removed the converter still provides power to 12v
remove BOTH... no power from converter to fuse panel

The strange fuse configuration in the photo
no idea what the 2 bottom fuses are
so do as Tacoma Joe said... pull em and find out

and just how many people carry enough spare fuses and a flashlight in a easy to find location?
those pesky fuses panels........... I swear, knows when it is the middle of the night!



EDIT..... additional
Notice the BLUE led light
Auto detect has switched to Lithium
green would = lead acid / AGM mode

I for one carry 3 pcs of each value fuse. As to a working flashlight, there are 3 placed in stragic locations. Likewise fire extingushers, one #5 ABC by each door.

And yes, I have chased down every circuit and properly labeled each fuse and circuit breaker.

Scouts motto: Be Prepared!

Bob

 

[DesertAIP]

Is the WF-8735-AD for Lithium Ion or LFP batteries? The WFCO site states Lithiun Ion (possible they haven't updated the site).

LFP batteries are much more common now, but the charge profiles for Lithium Ion and LFP are different, so it's important to have the correct charger for the correct battery chemistry.

 

[jlankford]

Is the WF-8735-AD for Lithium Ion or LFP batteries? The WFCO site states Lithiun Ion (possible they haven't updated the site).

LFP batteries are much more common now, but the charge profiles for Lithium Ion and LFP are different, so it's important to have the correct charger for the correct battery chemistry.

The WF-8735-AD is for LiFePO4 batteries. The Li-ion use is a misnomer. I've even seen battery vendors selling LFP batteries that are labeled in their marketing literature as "Li-ion".

 

[TitanMike]

The WF-8735-AD is for LiFePO4 batteries. The Li-ion use is a misnomer. I've even seen battery vendors selling LFP batteries that are labeled in their marketing literature as "Li-ion".

Li-Ion is the generic term. There are "sub-types" that are designated by the composition of their cathodes compositions.

LCO, NMC, NCA, LMO, AND LFP are cathode types but batteries built using these different types are ALL Li-Ion batteries.