Didn't drain water pipes before flushing with antifreeze

[WSW2020]

Hi,
I am interested in thoughts....
In my haste to winterize my travel trailer I flushed all faucets and drains with antifreeze. However, I realized after the fact that I failed to drain all of the water first using the low point valves. The trailer is in Washington State until May, I'm in Maryland. I think I have two options:
1. have someone from the storage office open the low point valves and let the the water flow until they see pink antifreeze. Will it drain if no faucets are open? If not, I'll send them a key to the trailer to open a faucet. OR

2. find a mobile RV guy to come and drain the line and rewinterize the pipes.
Your thoughts would be welcome regarding if you think option 1 will do the trick or if I need to go to option 2 or is there a third option?

Thanks for your insights.

Glenn

 

[Bob K4TAX]

Have a mobile RV tech do the job correctly.

Personally, I dump the water heater, dump the fresh water tank, and using the city water connection, use compressed air (35 to 45 PSI) to blow out the lines to each and every fixture. Then I open the low point drains and blow some more until only a fine mist comes out. That's it.

Next Spring, fill up the fresh water tank, allow the water heater to fill and we are ready to go camping. No antifreeze flushing needed.

Bob

 

[Reverse_snowbird]

It might not be necessary.

When you ran the antifreeze through the system, did you open the faucets til you saw antifreeze? If so, the only water left in the system would be the small amount in the valves and that will probably have some antifreeze due to dilution. It sounds like that's what you did and probably shouldn't be worried about it.

If you have it re-winterized, the people will need the keys to open the faucets to drain the water through the low point drains.

Option 1 isn't going to work unless someone opens the faucets inside to drain the small amount of water in the pipes to drain through the low point drains and also adds more antifreeze through the system.

 

[ejl923]

My only worry is at the low point drains, at least on mine, they’re not inline, so I wonder how much antifreeze is sitting in those low points due to inadequate mixing. Everywhere else if you saw the AF should be good. Even at the low points, probably fine, should mix at least some

 

[Iwritecode]

Did you at least bypass and drain the water heater? That could be a big problem.

 

[5picker]

Did you never open the low point drains during the process?

If you did everything else correctly and ran adequate R/V antifreeze throughout the system (along with the outdoor shower/spray port if equipped) and drained and bypassed the water heater but simply did not open the low point drains, I would have someone go to your R/V and open them. They do not need to turn on the pump or anything else. There "should" be enough residual Antifreeze in the lines that gravity will push the water out of the low points and you'll see antifreeze.

Some will say you need to open a faucet but of the 15+ campers I've owned, liquid will come out the low point without doing so. Opening a faucet won't hurt, but not entirely necessary.

Again, this is all speculation on the fact you "pushed" out all the other water in the system well enough, with antifreeze.

 

[Mookie58]

It's a long winter and you're a long ways away. Take option #2 with the mobile tech for your peace of mind. I wouldn't want this in the back of my mind all winter.

 

[Larry-NC]

Option 3

Hi,
I am interested in thoughts....
In my haste to winterize my travel trailer I flushed all faucets and drains with antifreeze. However, I realized after the fact that I failed to drain all of the water first using the low point valves. The trailer is in Washington State until May, I'm in Maryland. I think I have two options:
1. have someone from the storage office open the low point valves and let the the water flow until they see pink antifreeze. Will it drain if no faucets are open? If not, I'll send them a key to the trailer to open a faucet. OR

2. find a mobile RV guy to come and drain the line and rewinterize the pipes.
Your thoughts would be welcome regarding if you think option 1 will do the trick or if I need to go to option 2 or is there a third option?

Thanks for your insights.

Glenn

I vote for option 3. Since 2012, I have never opened the low-point drains on the Cherokee 38P. I run anti-freeze through until I see dark pink at the faucets and have never had a problem. We do have spells of below-freezing weather for multiple days in southern Virginia.

The very short drain stubs might not get completely purged, but Brownian motion will make the mixture homogeneous in a few hours--the same way you can drop a tea bag into water and the color will soon become uniform without stirring.

Don't sweat it. You don't need to do a thing.

 

[Palinduff]

It’s probably 50/50 for me opening the low points and never had an issue. I pump antifreeze through all the lines and I’m done. I do pop the screen out on the city water and push the valve to get antifreeze in that also.

 

[jimmoore13]

Have a mobile RV tech do the job correctly.

Personally, I dump the water heater, dump the fresh water tank, and using the city water connection, use compressed air (35 to 45 PSI) to blow out the lines to each and every fixture. Then I open the low point drains and blow some more until only a fine mist comes out. That's it.

Next Spring, fill up the fresh water tank, allow the water heater to fill and we are ready to go camping. No antifreeze flushing needed.

Bob

X-2. You probably won't need to send a key...check first...because there are not that many key cuts for RV locks. Many RV repair folks have a full set. But you want to winterize correctly...not just some storage guy try his hand at it.

I also winterize exclusively with air. I have a substantial air compressor that makes short work of the process. But it does take some thought, because things like the water pump intake screen do not get blown out, and if you have a black tank flush, you must blow it dry, too.

I presume you fully drained your RV's black and grey tanks. But bear in mind that while running all that water down the drain, you added a lot of water to the grey tank. And if you poured antifreeze down the drains to fill the traps, all THAT water went into the grey tank. While your mobile RV guy is there, have him dump the grey tank and add plenty of RV antifreeze through the traps and into the grey tank to protect the dump gate valve and dangly bits hangine out in the cold air. Also add at least a gallon or so of RV antifreeze down the toilet to protect the black tank dump gate valve and exposed plumbing. Finally, pour a couple of cups of antifreeze on top of the closed toilet flush "shutter" to ensure it stays "wet" and will operate smoothly in the spring.

Google winterizing an RV and watch a BUNCH of the videos...focusing on both the RV Antifreeze and the compressed air methods. Making a mistake here can not only be costly, but it can also be very difficult to repair...as in removing your coroplast underbelly, removing the dump plumbing, and in a worst case scenario, having to replace a black and/or grey tank.

 

[Larry-NC]

Be careful

It’s probably 50/50 for me opening the low points and never had an issue. I pump antifreeze through all the lines and I’m done. I do pop the screen out on the city water and push the valve to get antifreeze in that also.

I used to do that all the time--even though 5picker once posted a warning about that--and then I found out why.

There's an O-ring on the shaft internally that's a loose fit on the shaft. If you push that peg a tiny bit too far, the O-ring drops down and the shaft doesn't pop all the way back. No problem all winter, or in the spring when you hook up city water.

But the first time you use the pump (for me it was putting in antifreeze the following year), you learn that the check valve is not working and water (or antifreeze) sprays out the valve. To get the O-ring back in place you have to take the fixture out and hold it with the inside part upward, depress the peg, and shake a bit, and then the O-ring falls back into the proper place.

I replaced the valve (the plastic had cracked off years before) and in doing so I learned that

• (a) the segment that didn't get antifreeze was only about 10" long and probably would have been protected by antifreeze diffusion
• (b) the segment was that clear vinyl tubing with the strings embedded and would probably have flexed, not cracked if it did freeze
• (c) that segment is easy to see and reach and attached with two worm clamps, so it could be replaced in a few minutes at minimum cost.

And that's why I don't press the city water check valve any more.

 

[BC@CANUCK]

Make sure when ever someone opens the low point drains your push the hose connection. This will open the closed loop and drain water to antifreeze mixture. Where I live it goes to -30 and I use air and antifreeze.

 

[PhilFromMaine]

I vote for option 3. Since 2012, I have never opened the low-point drains on the Cherokee 38P. I run anti-freeze through until I see dark pink at the faucets and have never had a problem. We do have spells of below-freezing weather for multiple days in southern Virginia.

The very short drain stubs might not get completely purged, but Brownian motion will make the mixture homogeneous in a few hours--the same way you can drop a tea bag into water and the color will soon become uniform without stirring.

Don't sweat it. You don't need to do a thing.

1/2X
Brownian motion plus other vibration forces probably should work. However, the OP still has to go through the agony of worrying about the results next Spring.


Obviously in this case money isn't an issue, so why not call a tech to go over it for a couple 100 dollars for piece of mind. If the OP is like me, he would probably spend that much on Rolaids worrying about it.

 

[ChrisParise]

I drain all the tanks first into my Barker.

I always feel better opening the faucets and low point drains, bypassing the hw heater and drain all that first then prepare the work area

If i miss any step up to this point, it's recoverable.

After the pink stuff runs a solid color I drain the gray and black tanks into the Barker and pull it with my tractor to my sewer cleanout access

I do pour pink stuff into all p traps

 

[MillMitch]

FWIW, we live in MN and have never used the low point drains when winterizing our unit (2018 grey wolf). I do use a lot of antifreeze (4 or 5 gallons). It only takes about 2-1/2 gallons through the lines, toilet and showers. The rest goes down the sinks and toilet to make sure the water flushed out of the lines into the tanks also doesn't freeze.

 

[ChrisParise]

FWIW, we live in MN and have never used the low point drains when winterizing our unit (2018 grey wolf). I do use a lot of antifreeze (4 or 5 gallons). It only takes about 2-1/2 gallons through the lines, toilet and showers. The rest goes down the sinks and toilet to make sure the water flushed out of the lines into the tanks also doesn't freeze.

Pink stuff is pretty cheap. I don't mind getting an extra gallon.

My motorhome takes about 2 1/2 gallons for the lines and that includes 2 rounds of getting a steady stream through hot and cold for the shower, bathroom sink and toilet, and kitchen sink. The final 1/2 gallon goes down the 3 P traps

 

[vlamgat]

Pink stuff is pretty cheap. I don't mind getting an extra gallon.

My motorhome takes about 2 1/2 gallons for the lines and that includes 2 rounds of getting a steady stream through hot and cold for the shower, bathroom sink and toilet, and kitchen sink. The final 1/2 gallon goes down the 3 P traps

Good point about the p-traps. Also important to ensure that either the black and grey tank valve seals are completely clean and dry or that they are coated with anti-freeze. If left close during the winter, any moisture trapped in the seal either side of the slide valve will freeze, and the crystals so created will crack the valve. Same can be said for all the drain valves if left in the closed position after draining.

Of course if its months between the treatment and the first hard freeze, they may all dry out but a hard freeze in November and or December is not unknown.

 

[Larry-NC]

P-traps

Good point about the p-traps. Also important to ensure that either the black and grey tank valve seals are completely clean and dry or that they are coated with anti-freeze. If left close during the winter, any moisture trapped in the seal either side of the slide valve will freeze, and the crystals so created will crack the valve. Same can be said for all the drain valves if left in the closed position after draining.

Of course if its months between the treatment and the first hard freeze, they may all dry out but a hard freeze in November and or December is not unknown.

If you are running the pump and flushing the kitchen, shower, and lavatory taps, that fills the p-traps. No need to fill them any further.

And if you look back a year or two, you will find the post where I took an ABS p-trap (same as in an RV), filled it to the brim with water, and put it in my really cold chest freezer for a week. It didn't split or crack.

 

[ChrisParise]

Good point about the p-traps. Also important to ensure that either the black and grey tank valve seals are completely clean and dry or that they are coated with anti-freeze. If left close during the winter, any moisture trapped in the seal either side of the slide valve will freeze, and the crystals so created will crack the valve. Same can be said for all the drain valves if left in the closed position after draining.

Of course if its months between the treatment and the first hard freeze, they may all dry out but a hard freeze in November and or December is not unknown.

I never thought about the valve seals! But, I always make it habit to drain all my tanks after the pick stuff so I guess I am covered.

About a month before winterizing this year I did something new to lubricate the valves from the inside. Can't remember the manufacturer it's a thick orange liquid you mix with 4 gallons of water in the tank and then drain the tanks opening and closing the valves. Will see how if it helps smooth the operation.

 

[Boomerweps]

Stop worrying. If the only fresh water in your system is the low point drain pipes, it will eventually mix itself (as was mentioned), plus if not enough antifreeze is mixed any water freezing will not expand enough to damage the PEX pipe, nor likely damage the drain valves. Worst case, the drain valves might leak. Easy, cheap replacement next time you’re there. Water heater and inside leaks are the major winterizing concerns.