Factory Installed Solar System and Battery Upgrade

[Colorado-A-Frame]

I recently purchased a 2018 T12RBTHSE. The unit came with many options I haven’t seen in the used market. It came with factory installed solar, in addition to the WiFi Ranger.

The roof mounted panel is no longer functional and the Go Power Solar Controller is not Lithium Battery Compatible. In addition there is a factory installed SAE connection direct to the battery.

The most important part is that the unit is pre-wired with 10 gauge wire to the roof mounted panel and to the controller…in addition there is factory installed 10 gauge wire from the controller to the battery. The system also includes a Go Power inverter…It seems functional but I haven’t tested it yet.

I set out on the project knowing that I would need to replace the roof mounted panel, upgrade the controller and would like to upgrade from an older AGM battery to Lithium.

I should preface this by also saying this isn’t our first A Frame or my first solar setup. We had a 2012 T12DDST. I added solar and converted that unit to 2 6v Deep Cycle golf cart batteries. We had a great experience with that camper before we sold it and moved overseas.

I spent a good bit of time researching and reading posts in many RV forums to find what I think is an affordable and efficient DIY solution. Of course this isn’t a one size fits all thing at all…your needs and experience may vary.

Over the past few years the advancements in solar technology is incredible. Efficiencies have increased and costs have decreased considerably. Combined with expansion in the lithium battery industry thanks to the EV world…and we have a perfect marriage for the camper community. Many new campers are delivered today with 12v systems for everything including the fridge because these systems are so much more robust than in the past.

When creating a parts list I found that the camper van world loves Victron. Their products are affordable, robust and there is a ton of online support for newbies such as myself.

I decided that the Victron 100/30 Solar controller would work great for our application. We will have one permanently mounted roof panel to replace the factory panel and I also decided to add a portable panel to the system as well. I also decided to monitor the system with the Victron BMV-712 Smart Shunt and the MPPT Panel mount controller. While the solar controller is blue tooth capable I like the idea of being able to see the status at a glance.

All of this power needs to be stored…but where. I went down a deep hole into the Lithium Battery world. There is a guy on YouTube who’s awesome. @WillProwse has a series of videos where he dissects batteries, controllers and DIY solar gear. He’s interesting and creates incredible content. I initially had planned to go with a single 100ah battle born battery…at the cost of less than $500 it seemed like a good solution until I found @WillProwse his review to of the LiTime batteries stopped me in my tracks. There is a lot to discuss with regards to Lithium batteries but to summarize they either need to be relocated to the conditioned interior of the camper or self-heating (if you plan to camper in colder climates.) I planned to keep the batteries located out on the tongue for ease/cost and safety reasons. After watching a few reviews I went with 2 LiTime self-heated, 100ah batteries at less than $500!

I’ve been chipping away at the project. So far I have the controller and shunt installed, and panel replaced. I’ve upgraded the batteries with a new box and have cleaned up a bunch of wiring. It’s a work in progress but here are a few pictures of what I’ve done so far…and some before and after.

I’m always open to advice, opinions and suggestions. I thought I’d share my journey in hopes it might help other who are either contemplating the same project or have experience with their own.

 

[miataroadster]

Congrats! It looked like you did a MUCH neater job than what I did, hehehe.

Good choice on the LiTime. I think I paid $650 for two mini 100ah 14 mos ago. I got the great advice from this forum to switch from flood to LiFePO4 batteries and to add more roof solar panels! These batteries are way better and it's less than $400 now for a pair! I wanted to add more batteries, but decided to get power a station instead during black Friday sale.

 

[pgandw]

Why I decided not your path, and where I am today.

In Aug 2018, we upgraded from an A122 (T12R to a T21TBHW A-frame. We needed the cassette toilet because of DW's ongoing cancer treatment. But we also gained a lot of open feeling from the dormer, as well as headroom over the dinette. And being able to use the twin bunk config meant the one to rear didn't have to roll over the one to the front to get in/out of bed. The high wall gave us the bigger automatic fridge.

On the downside, the considerably heavier roof and the poor excuse for a lift motor had to be redesigned. We ended up with 4 gas struts (front ones don't do much but were the first move by the factory to fix the roof lift).

I certainly don't want to add weight to the roof for solar panels when we like to camp in the shade, and the roof will be angled the wrong way at least 50% of the time when we are camping in sun. I don't want to deal with setting out portable panels, so I just locked into having enough battery to last 4 nights dry or boondock camping (at 5 days water tank is going to run dry, too). Originally installed 2 Costco/Interstate GC-2 batteries which indeed would go the 4 nights without going below 50%.

The GC-2 batteries have reached end of life, so I am contemplating what next. I was going down the 2 100AH LiFePO road but they won't fit in the box unless I get the Grp 24 mini size. Then I read about (on marine forums as well as here) balancing issues with dual LiFePO installs - especially LiTime where the BMSs don't cooperate as well as they should. Have revised my plan to a single 150AH LiFePO as a better alternative, for actually less money than dual 100AH - almost the same as 2 GC-2s. Lose a little capacity, but have established 100AH available is good for our camping style. Just waiting to pull the trigger.

Not sure I will get any charge while towing. But my replacement Progressive converter will deliver 14.4V all day when plugged in, which is sufficient for charging and balancing. Just turn off converter a couple of hours after batteries get to 100%.

Fred W
2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW A-frame
2022 Hyundai Palisade

 

[Aussieguy]

is there a setting on the gopower for you to use "User Defined"
so you can manually add the lithium settings
14.2 charging
13.8 float

(or what ever Litime says to use for voltages)

100 / 30 maybe a bit over kill
unless you can somehow rig up some ground panels and connect them into the controller
there are smaller MPPT that might save you a few $$$

How about a pic of your roof showing the panel
are you thinking of flexible or solid panels

 

[Brandoni]

Didn't recognize this as my title block pic for a new reply post . . . The new forum software is looking good so far . . .

Colorado-A-Frame . . .​

Thank you for you research on Li batteries and @WillProwse channel . . . I'm also now in the market for a new battery for our A-Frame . . . : )

 

[Colorado-A-Frame]

Hey Fred, that’s interesting info regarding the balancing issues with the LiTime batteries. After watching a few @WillProwse videos on the LiTime batteries I was confident in their design and build. I’ve had them installed in the garage for a couple weeks and haven’t noticed any issues. One thing I found really interesting is that the stock converter with shore power took me to 99% charge. The batteries ship at about 50%…I charged them in parallel, monitoring them closely and was honestly shocked that I got a balanced charge all the way to 99%!?!?! I had toyed with the idea of upgrading the converter but my plan is to use Solar primarily and if I’m getting 99% off shore power with my current setup I think I’ll stick with the stock unit for a while. I did opt for the cheap/light weight Camco dual group 24 box…I did add some pretty robust solid bar straps and locks. I’ll post some pictures and links for reference later on.


Hey Aussie—well I dug into the Go Power unit and it’s a very basic PWM controller. There is an upgraded version that has the option for Lithium but for the money I was able to purchase the Victron controller and the shunt on a Black Friday sale for the price of the go power unit. The 100/30 is a bit over kill. I decided to replace the dead Go Power flexible roof mounted panel with a new BougeRV CIGS compact flexible panel. It weighs, 4.5 lbs and being that our A Frame is pre-wired I want to take full advantage of that. While roof mounted panels are never as effective/efficient as portable panels I can walk away without the risk of them being stolen and also get a bit of a charge when I’m under-tow too. I also replaced the factory SAE plug with a new 10 gauge SAE plug that I ran to the controller…that will allow me to run a Renogy 220 watt portable panel setup as the primary source…with the roof panel supplementing the system. I haven’t tackled the roof panel yet…I’m trying to finish up all of the electrical and interior items before I drop the roof again. I’ll post pictures of our current installation for reference…I’ve also ordered all new bubble windows. I’m not sure if I’m a complete glutton for punishment or just incredibly foolish for taking all this on! But it is fun!

 

[Colorado-A-Frame]

Didn't recognize this as my title block pic for a new reply post . . . The new forum software is looking good so far . . .

Colorado-A-Frame . . .​

Thank you for you research on Li batteries and @WillProwse channel . . . I'm also now in the market for a new battery for our A-Frame . . . : )

You can kill hours if not days watching his channel. He has a great show and I’ve learned a lot. I was terrified of getting some no name foreign Lithium Battery Bomb…but his channel and research put my mind at ease. There are a lot of affordable options out there. The weight savings and efficiency is a remarkable improvement over AGM

 

[Colorado-A-Frame]

I drilled down through some previous posts based on what Fred had to say about the LiTime balancing issues. Based on Aussie’s suggestion in previous posts I did elect to go with a battery post bus bar for the negative side of my system. I did previously have the positive side setup with the battery to the bus bar vs direct to the battery post. I added the negative to the Victon Shunt. I’m not sure if there is any advantage or disadvantage to this configuration. I’m currently doing a very unscientific test myself to see if I get the same results as others have had. I don’t have much to power, but I turned on everything I could to increase the load as high as I could…radio/lights/fan/wifiranger/fridge…still not showing over 4 amps of draw. So far everything seems to be working/balancing within reason I think. I did also download the Overkill app in hopes of getting more information from the LiTime BMS but sadly the app won’t connect to the batteries.

In addition I took some pictures of the LiTime app with both batteries and the Victron BM. They’re all close…there might be some capacity differences…both batteries show 99% while the Victron is showing 89%…in the real world I’d go with the Victron and error on the site of caution…both are showing a couple days worth of capacity with all the stuff on listed above. I’ve attached some pictures for reference.

I also added pictures of my current factory roof panel. It’s not producing, may even be hail damaged…I’m going to replace it with the BougeRV CIGS panel. They are the same dimensions and are lighter and more durable

 

[TitanMike]

100 / 30 maybe a bit over kill
unless you can somehow rig up some ground panels and connect them into the controller
there are smaller MPPT that might save you a few $$$

How about a pic of your roof showing the panel
are you thinking of flexible or solid panels

Since when is Quality "Overkill"? Especially when it comes with the ability to network with the the Victron Shunt and compensate output voltage due to any voltage drop over connecting to battery. Victron setups use actual voltate AT THE BATTERY to determine output rather than voltage at their output terminals. Remote voltage monitoring like this is always superior. Yeah, a Victron 100/30 MPPT smart controller may cost a little more but it also does so much more, providing better charging as well as easy setup and monitoring.

 

[Aussieguy]

Since when is Quality "Overkill"? Especially when it comes with the ability to network with the the Victron Shunt and compensate output voltage due to any voltage drop over connecting to battery. Victron setups use actual voltate AT THE BATTERY to determine output rather than voltage at their output terminals. Remote voltage monitoring like this is always superior. Yeah, a Victron 100/30 MPPT smart controller may cost a little more but it also does so much more, providing better charging as well as easy setup and monitoring.

one or 2 panels on a A frame

100/30 is huge UNLESS he can rig up ground panel into the 100/30
there are smaller Blue thingies out there , no one said he can't buy blue


networking , remote monitoring if you must.... but totally unnecessary if doing a budget friendly build

My biggest concern is the roof angle.... gonna be in some serious shade a good part of the day if he parks in the wrong direction.
But if he can face south and with that tilt angle he may get great results .... especially if in a poor location like up near the Canada border

Iv'e looked at my battery once in two weeks (been busy with house stuff in this weather)
A frame more than likely stored at house I don't see the need for too much QUALITY blue stuff

The actual definition of quality = "built so it is fit for the purpose it was designed for"
If he designs a system that charges his battery within performance perameter ... it is a QUALITY system

If he designs one that speaks Latin using AI .... that is also a quality but more expensive system

 

[Colorado-A-Frame]

My plan is to run the roof top panel and plug into the rewired/reworked connection I installed for a Renogy 220 watt portable panel setup. And the 100/30 on a Black Friday sale was super affordable…not that cost is everything.

I ran my unscientific test for 6-7 hours today. The volts between each battery was dead on, although the % capacity remaining on the blue tooth app did have some disparity. I’ve got to go out of town for work for a week so I turned everything off, the batteries are in standby so says the app…I’ll be curious to see in a weeks time if they balance each other out or remain at their current SOC. One thing that I am curious about is the % of power remaining in the app. Is it more accurate than the displayed or tested volts?

I took some screenshot, I’ll attach them below. Standby is first, under load before I shut it down is next

 

[TitanMike]

My plan is to run the roof top panel and plug into the rewired/reworked connection I installed for a Renogy 220 watt portable panel setup. And the 100/30 on a Black Friday sale was super affordable…not that cost is everything.

I ran my unscientific test for 6-7 hours today. The volts between each battery was dead on, although the % capacity remaining on the blue tooth app did have some disparity. I’ve got to go out of town for work for a week so I turned everything off, the batteries are in standby so says the app…I’ll be curious to see in a weeks time if they balance each other out or remain at their current SOC. One thing that I am curious about is the % of power remaining in the app. Is it more accurate than the displayed or tested volts?

I took some screenshot, I’ll attach them below. Standby is first, under load before I shut it down is next

The victron shunt needs to be the only connection to the battery negatives. It's imperative that there be no other connection to the negative terminal(s) other than the shunt so ALL power flows through it. If a bus is used then it needs to be connected to the load side of the shunt, including any connection to the frame.


As to which source to believe for SOC, if the victron shunt has been properly connected and parameters correctly entered in it's setup, it will be far more accurate than the internal Bluetooth feature. The Bluetooth feature will show cell balance while the Victron shunt does not. The value of being able to see cell balance depends on the user.

 

[Colorado-A-Frame]

Thanks Titan…I am configured/wired as you described. All of the battery negatives are on the shunt (right side in the picture) the load side has the bus bar with all the load items including the frame ground. It’s hard to see but the bus bar is bolted directly to the shunt load side. The blue cover is some little thing my brother printed on his 3D printer…it’s just a little cover and not necessary. I added another picture so you can see how I use to have the load side stacked on the shunt. I like the bus bar, it looks cleaner…I’m not sure if it’s necessary

I watched a few videos from Victron and others on how to configure the monitor. I didn’t find anything specific for the LiTime batteries but went with generic Lithium settings.

 

[Aussieguy]

when you get back ...
allow the batteries to fully charge leave everything connected and solar + converter charging
then allow some discharging...

do a couple of these discharge / charge cycles to allow the bean counters inside each device to learn

if you need to find something to create a load
get some old incandescent headlamps (bulbs from nearby junkyard?)

get the charging voltages from the Litime app and use them in the shunt

did you use the APP to create a "system" tells the app the 2 batteries are in parrallel?
look at around the 3:50 mark in the video below
may/may not...... be useful to create a system?

EDIT.... here is a good discussion on a solar site concerning Litime setups with victron
maybe some goo info here.... (I didn't read every post)

LiTime 12v 100 ah Setting help

Needing help confirming setting are correct. This is in our 5th wheel FTime Unit. Solar: 1100 Watts ( upgrading more this winter) We are running 4 - LiTime 12v 100 ah Batteries in Parallel. Using a Victron 150/85 MPPT controller with smart shunt. I want to make sure my setting are correct. I...

diysolarforum.com

..

 

[TitanMike]

when you get back ...
allow the batteries to fully charge leave everything connected and solar + converter charging
then allow some discharging...

do a couple of these discharge / charge cycles to allow the bean counters inside each device to learn

if you need to find something to create a load
get some old incandescent headlamps (bulbs from nearby junkyard?)

get the charging voltages from the Litime app and use them in the shunt

did you use the APP to create a "system" tells the app the 2 batteries are in parrallel?
look at around the 3:50 mark in the video below
may/may not...... be useful to create a system?

EDIT.... here is a good discussion on a solar site concerning Litime setups with victron
maybe some goo info here.... (I didn't read every post)

LiTime 12v 100 ah Setting help

Needing help confirming setting are correct. This is in our 5th wheel FTime Unit. Solar: 1100 Watts ( upgrading more this winter) We are running 4 - LiTime 12v 100 ah Batteries in Parallel. Using a Victron 150/85 MPPT controller with smart shunt. I want to make sure my setting are correct. I...

diysolarforum.com

..

Not sure which devices you are referring to that have " bean counters" that "need to learn".

The Victron devices are merely set initially for the battery parameters and work just fine without any discharge/charge cycling. Victron BMV's are true "coulomb counters". A coulomb is a unit of electricity consisting of one amp for one second for the curious. Victron BMV's need no learning. A Victron BMV will synchronize to 100% SOC when charge current reaches less than the tail current setting. No tedious, and wasteful, discharging/charging task.

As for "networking" among Victron devices, it has nothing to do with user monitoring but rather accuracy of information each device operates on.

One example is charging batteries from a converter 15-20 feet away. Standard converters only know the voltage at their output terminals and due to the resistance in the connecting wire, voltage seen at the battery terminals can be noticably lower. The higher voltage at the converter causes premature switching to lower voltage/charge modes. With a Victron charger (like the Phoenix IP-43 Smart Charger) and BMV-712 monitor, the voltage measured at the battery is now the voltage controlling output of the charger. If there's any voltage drop between the charger and battery the charger will increase the output voltage until voltage at battery reaches the desired level for the charge mode. Eliminates the need to upgrade the wire size between Battery and converter.
This is what is meant by REMOTE MONITORING in a Victron network, not one bring able to sit in their armchair and look at their battery SOC or cell balance.


Only the cheap battery monitors and those incorporated into the low end lifepo4 batteries may need this learning process.

 

[Aussieguy]

bean counters = technical term for :
let the batteries fully charge and discharge (20-50% or more) do this a few times .
so any module Or electronic AI thingymajig inside those magic boxes has a chance to to their calcutatoring...

anyone notice it is showing/calculating 13.2v = 99%
I think it needs to allow full charging and cycling to get it's SOC correct

I don't have that battery in front of me and have never used their APP
so can't comment on exact figures but 13.2 seams pretty low for SOC

 

[Colorado-A-Frame]

I definitely learned something today! I had no idea that LiTime had the ability to add or create a “system” in their app. I will do that first thing when I get home. I’m not sure if that will help my configuration it it’s worth a shot.

Secondly, I spent a lot of time educating myself on settings and networking with the Victron products. It was always my intention to network, but I wasn’t sure if that connection needed to be via the VE cable or if it could be done via Bluetooth. I’m using the cable to attach to the remote display…I’d prefer to utilize the Bluetooth option if possible. I’ve got the configuration noted and will update the charge controller and BMV when I get back.

The only other question is as Aussie highlighted the volts vs SOC in the LiTime app. I did discover that the SOC I am reading on the Victron BMV will be less than the preset/determined discharge floor set in setting screen. I have mine currently at 5% so that would make up the difference. My initial charge was using the camper inverter while I was working on other projects. I didn’t give that much though and was surprised to see 99%…now looking at the volts I’m not sure about that SOC in the LiTime app…so when I get back I’m going to set up my portable Renogy 220W panel and give it a good charge and see what I get.

Love all the input, advice and feedback!

 

[TitanMike]

I definitely learned something today! I had no idea that LiTime had the ability to add or create a “system” in their app. I will do that first thing when I get home. I’m not sure if that will help my configuration it it’s worth a shot.

Secondly, I spent a lot of time educating myself on settings and networking with the Victron products. It was always my intention to network, but I wasn’t sure if that connection needed to be via the VE cable or if it could be done via Bluetooth. I’m using the cable to attach to the remote display…I’d prefer to utilize the Bluetooth option if possible. I’ve got the configuration noted and will update the charge controller and BMV when I get back.

The only other question is as Aussie highlighted the volts vs SOC in the LiTime app. I did discover that the SOC I am reading on the Victron BMV will be less than the preset/determined discharge floor set in setting screen. I have mine currently at 5% so that would make up the difference. My initial charge was using the camper inverter while I was working on other projects. I didn’t give that much though and was surprised to see 99%…now looking at the volts I’m not sure about that SOC in the LiTime app…so when I get back I’m going to set up my portable Renogy 220W panel and give it a good charge and see what I get.

Love all the input, advice and feedback!

The victron devices you have communicate via Bluetooth. The cable merely connects the display to the shunt. Not needed with smart shunt as it has no display.

Note: you have no control over the voltage displayed. The voltage settings in the BMV-712 are direct read from the separate small wire which should be connected directly to the battery positive terminal, not a bus bar or anywhere else.
Voltage setting in BMV-712 is used along with tail current to sync SOC.

Voltage settings in the solar controller are used to trigger different charge levels like Bulk, Absorption, Float, and Storage.



FWIW you'll drive yourself crazy trying to compare readings between the Victron BMV and the ones from the battery app.

I'd trust the Victron BMV data long before I'd trust the battery bluetooth data. There's a huge difference in the Victron equipment and the inexpensive device in the battery. Kind of like the difference between a Fluke meter and a free giveaway from Harbor Freight.

Lastly Volts are not used by Victron for SOC calculation as their monitor is a true shunt based Coulomb Counter. Others use voltage and amps in an attempt calculate SOC. Some perhaps more successful than others but not to the level of the Victro. Monitors.

AND- Victron monitors do not incorporate "bean counters" that need to be trained
Set battery capacity and use the default LiFePo4 settings in "settings" and you're ready to go.

The Victron Manual has a lot of info regarding other settings but defaults for the lifepo4 batteries work well on most all brands

 

[jlankford]

I definitely learned something today! I had no idea that LiTime had the ability to add or create a “system” in their app. I will do that first thing when I get home. I’m not sure if that will help my configuration it it’s worth a shot.

Secondly, I spent a lot of time educating myself on settings and networking with the Victron products. It was always my intention to network, but I wasn’t sure if that connection needed to be via the VE cable or if it could be done via Bluetooth. I’m using the cable to attach to the remote display…I’d prefer to utilize the Bluetooth option if possible. I’ve got the configuration noted and will update the charge controller and BMV when I get back.

The only other question is as Aussie highlighted the volts vs SOC in the LiTime app. I did discover that the SOC I am reading on the Victron BMV will be less than the preset/determined discharge floor set in setting screen. I have mine currently at 5% so that would make up the difference. My initial charge was using the camper inverter while I was working on other projects. I didn’t give that much though and was surprised to see 99%…now looking at the volts I’m not sure about that SOC in the LiTime app…so when I get back I’m going to set up my portable Renogy 220W panel and give it a good charge and see what I get.

Love all the input, advice and feedback!

When you're looking at volts, make sure you are looking at resting voltage with no charging or discharging current.

The LiTime batteries are known to not include a small amount of discharge current, up to 1.0amp, in the BMS SOC calculations. So over time, if the system is discharging slowly, there will be a discrepancy between the LiTime SOC and the Victron shunt SOC which would be lower. I would only trust the SOC value the shunt is reporting.

 

[Aussieguy]

Not sure which devices you are referring to that have " bean counters" that "need to learn".

if you don't know the state of charge so you can set the initial soc in the victron
the only way to get accurate SOC......... is to charge it up and let any bean counters do their calulatering

something inside that blue box labeled Shunt must work out, measure OR calculate
when to mark battery as full (100%)
Based on inputs you tell it, and on whatever is inside them that works it out..
maybe bluebox is better at working stuff out than battery box

I'm only commenting on what was given to us... screenshots of the Litime app
which appears to me could need/use a couple of cycles to work our the SOC

I don't know and don't care...
as a happy camper person that just uses a battery
I really don't care if there is a abbacus or a mainframe computer in there

In the mean time I got more important things to do ...... like wash the dog.
after that can see if SOC has improved

---------------------
and really .......... what is the consequences of the SOC being off a bit
sent them back to China for re-education camp
swap out the blue marbles in the abbacus for red ones?
never open the LiTime app again ... just use the Victron super computer

or you just learn to live with it,
go make coffee .... get your system working and setup a routine for monitoring it
preferably while you relax with the coffee and see that everything looks good....
the beans in the battery are getting replaced