Generator will not run Converter or Fridge

[happy camper 17]

Hi folks,
I am new to this forum and would like some help with a battery charging issue. I was boondocking with my 22 Rockwood Minilite 2109S and after a few days wanted to charge up my Li time 230 amp hour lithium battery. I hooked up my Genmax 4800 generator to the 30 amp cord and the converter and fridge began to operate , then shut down. I could tell that they were working because the generator showed a slight draw on the digital display, then the display went to zero. I unplugged and plugged in the cord numerous times with the same result. But the AC and the microwave all worked fine. I also tried a second 30 amp cord to see if the cord was the problem and it was not. Hooked up the 30 amp cord via adapter to the 110 plugin on the generator with the same results. I then used a 20 amp lithium charger that I hooked up directly to the battery and 110 plug on generator to power it and the battery accepted the charge just fine. Now here is the thing that confuses me. I took my Yamaha 2000 generator and hooked up the 30 amp cord via adapter and the converter fired right up and worked just fine. The Genmax generator runs just fine and does not show anything abnormal on the display.
I tried getting a hold of Genmax customer service and that has been a total nightmare. The generator is still under warranty.
I'm totally confused. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[Twinboat]

Did you use an adaptor on the first generators outlet ?

The converter may be overloading the generator outlet.


On some panels, both the fridge and converter are on the same breaker.

 

[happy camper 17]

Thanks for the quick response. I used a 110 to 30 amp adapter when I plugged into the 110 on the generator. I tried this method because using the 30 amp cord hooked to the 30 amp outlet on the generator did not work.
I don't understand how the 30 amp outlet could be getting overloaded...maybe the 110 outlet.
I do know that the battery was getting quite low according to the charge controller(12.7) so I would guess that the converter was putting out full output to recharge the low battery.
Why would the 110 outlet with adapter not work on the Genmax generator but work just fine on the little Yamaha?
I did not find a dedicated breaker for the converter. I did see 2- 40 amp fuses which I assume are for the converter and the fact that in converter worked fine on the second generator tells me the fuses are fine. I know that the converter was working because the yellow stand by light went out which means it is working (according to the dealer).

 

[Qwkynuf]

Just a thought, but are you using a surge protector with the 30a cord on the generator? If so, try it without.

For one, you shouldn't need one with the generator, and two, some of them behave...poorly....with the non-bonded neutral and ground on the generator.

 

[happy camper 17]

No surge protector. Hooked up direct to the trailer.
The only other thing that I know of that I haven't tried is grounding the generator. Everything I have read says it is not necessary to ground an inverter generator. The same with a neutral ground plug unless I am using a surge protector. Would I damage anything if I tried a neutral ground plug?

 

[Qwkynuf]

No surge protector. Hooked up direct to the trailer.
The only other thing that I know of that I haven't tried is grounding the generator. Everything I have read says it is not necessary to ground an inverter generator. The same with a neutral ground plug unless I am using a surge protector. Would I damage anything if I tried a neutral ground plug?

No, won't hurt anything. Shouldn't be necessary though. Basically just makes the surge protector happy.

 

[happy camper 17]

I am totally confused as to what is going on and out of ideas. I will try the neutral ground for the heck of it. I just wish my little Yamaha had more power. It struggles to run just the microwave, converter and fridge at the same time ( at altitude) but that unit has been virtually bombproof for over 20 years. Maybe Genmax customer service will get back to me but I am not holding my breath on that happening.

 

[wmtire]

Can you please post a pic of this yellow "converter" light you are referring to. I'm thinking it's to an inverter, not converter....which are two totally different items and functions as explained in link below. thanks

https://www.forestriverforums.com/forums/f215/converter-or-inverter-they-are-different-152813.html

 

[happy camper 17]

I will get you a photo. I have a WFCO 8955 LIS converter and the yellow blinking light is right by the switch where you can switch the converter to lead acid or lithium. When hooked to shore power, that light goes out.

 

[jimmoore13]

Observation:
Works on Shore Power.
Works on 15 amp duplex outlet on the Yamaha with adapter to 30 amp RV power cord.
DOESN'T WORK on Genmax...on either the 15 amp duplex outlet or the 30 amp outlet.

Genmax also runs the AC unit when connected to 30 amp outlet on Genmax.

I would avoid connecting to the Genmax for any reason whatsoever. If the Yamaha is able to charge your battery through the converter but the Genmax can't, my hunch is the Genmax is sending, at minimum, very dirty power and/or the incorrect voltage. Given that you have the Yamaha, I suspect the Genmax may be new enough to be under warranty, but regardless, I would not connect anything to it.

If you are out of warranty, my next suggestion is to get a sophisticated surge protector/power protection adapter, and plug it in to the Genmax and see what it has to say.

Beating a dead horse, the "here's your sign" moment is when the Yamaha can essentially run everything just fine, but the Genmax can't. It's possible (doubtful but possible) that your converter recognized the problem with the power and refused to send crappy power to charge your battery and run your inverter.

That's not a very educated guess, but the simple logic at the start of my comment seems inescapable. There's a problem with the Genmax.

 

[happy camper 17]

I have a Power Watchdog surge protector that I will hook up to the generator and see what it has to say. Worse case scenario is it will fry the surge board but it is replaceable on a Power Watchdog. Thanks, neighbor. (I am in Durango).

 

[reidfo]

I have a Power Watchdog surge protector that I will hook up to the generator and see what it has to say. Worse case scenario is it will fry the surge board but it is replaceable on a Power Watchdog. Thanks, neighbor. (I am in Durango).

I can't see it frying the surge board on the watchdog, but you will need the neutral-ground bonding plug in place when using the watchdog on the generator. Otherwise the watchdog will complain about an open ground.

 

[happy camper 17]

The generator is still under warranty but getting a hold of those bozos at Genmax is virtually impossible.
I went ahead and tried the Watchdog (with neutral ground plug) on the generator and the surge protector did not throw an error code. Just for the heck of it, I pulled out the neutral ground plug while it was running and the Watchdog lit up like a red Christmas tree. So I am assuming it is working properly.
One more tidbit of information. When I was testing the generator with my trailer, the fridge was on auto and when I plugged in the generator I could tell by the digital output display on the generator that the fridge had switched over to generator power but after a few seconds the display went to zero. I'm pretty sure for those few seconds that the converter was running because I could hear the fan running, but only briefly and that yellow light that I spoke of earlier started to blink again. Any other ideas?

 

[Bob K4TAX]

One of the things I'd be looking for regardng the generator is in the documentation. That has to do with the output being floating or one side grounded.

It is customary (and electrical code) the AC neutral be tied to ground at the power source. This takes place in the circuit breaker box in your home. Thus the circuit breaker box is deemed the power source.

With the generator, that is your power source. Conventional generators have the output floating. Meaning neither leg of the output is connected to ground. As to inverter generators, they may or may not have the output floating. And in some configurations, one can not connect the output neutral to ground.

One of the things I'd determine, does the trailer and all of its equipment work correctly when connected to shore power via a 30 amp, 120 volt RV service. If the answer is yes, then one can presume all is well with the trailer and its cordage.

The next thing, using the same cordage, no adapters or surge protectors or EMS, connect the trailer to the RV outlet on the generator. If things do not work correctly, then futher study regarding the generator is required. If it is and inverter generator, it may not allow one of the output legs connected to ground. Thus if one were to measure from one leg to ground they get ~60 volts AC. Then measuring from the other leg to ground the also get ~60 volts AC. This telles me that the inverter can not have one leg connected to ground.

As to using a surge protector, typically not required for generator service. As to and EMS, some may not like the output regulation of a generator. I use the term generator as generic being it a convential type or inverter type.

Bob

P.S. I did look at the manual on-line and found this statement.

"NEUTRAL FLOATING - For portable generators where the neutral is floating, the operator's manual shall include the following wording or
equivalent: The portable generator stator winding is isolated from the frame and from the AC receptacle ground pin; and
Electrical devices that require a connection between one conductor pin and the grounded receptacle pin may not
function properly."

https://file.infoservision.com/1429984513066467330/1553981031442739202.pdf

Regarding low idle; "● If the load exceeds 50%, it is recommended to turn off the low idle mode."

 

[happy camper 17]

Thanks for the input, Bob. I'm not too savvy on how all this works so please bear with me. Everything worked fine all summer to my knowledge when hooked up to the tower in RV parks. What confuses me is when hooked to the Genmax generator, why does the AC and microwave work just fine but not the converter and fridge? Isn't the ground part the same for both?

 

[Bob K4TAX]

The a/c and microwave likely don't need a ground reference where as the converter does. It is charging the battery which is connected to the frame of the trailer and thus likely needs a ground reference.

For me, it would take some study of each unit to determine if a ground is needed. I do know that Surge Protectors and EMS do look for a Neutral and a Ground. If one or the other is missing, the system will disconnect or throw an error code.

The fact it worked all summer with service at the RV park initially tells me that all is cocrrect with the trailer and its systems. This points to a non-compatable generator configuration. This is stated in the generator manual, and as I quoted from that manual.

Bob

 

[happy camper 17]

Gotcha. I did not read the bottom portion of your last thread and I apologize for that. Would physically grounding the generator with a grounding rod/wire help the situation or am I out of luck?

 

[Bob K4TAX]

That is not what they mean by grounding per se. You may need to connect the generator Neutral to generator Ground. Usually a grounding plug, into the 20A outlet will allow the 30 A RV outlet to connect the Neutral to Ground.

Here is a link that explains it. No sense in buying one of these when you can easily make one for yourself.

https://www.rvtravel.com/rv-electricity-diy-generator-neutral-ground-bonding-plug-rvt-1076/

Bob

 

[happy camper 17]

I already have one of those bonding plugs. I will run out tomorrow and see if it makes any difference with the converter/fridge working with the generator. Keeping my fingers crossed. Thanks again for all of your help and time.

 

[Bob K4TAX]

I already have one of those bonding plugs. I will run out tomorrow and see if it makes any difference with the converter/fridge working with the generator. Keeping my fingers crossed. Thanks again for all of your help and time.

I normally charge $185/hr, same as Camping World, but as this is my birthday weekend, plus UT won, I'll forgive the charges.