Isata 3 2024 FE Xantrex Freedom batteries in cold weather

[burtbick]

As we are heading into cold weather, with some nights slated to drop below 32 degrees I was interested in any feedback from other Freedom Edition owners who have been using their RV in colder weather.


I'm not talking about trying to camp in colder climates, but how to deal with cold temps between camping trips.


We typically take several trips in the winter months, and of course when needed winterize with air and anti-freeze in drains and tanks, etc. But before the Isata 3 FE we had a Class A with lead acid batteries.


We have the RV connected to shore power. And can provide supplemental heat if needed.


So the concern is that the batteries need to be above 32 degrees or so to safely charge, and ideally should be above that temp to provide power although in theory they can provide power at a slightly lower temp.


Have you had any experience with the internal heaters on the batteries?


What are the lowest temps that you've experienced with your Freedom Edition and how did you deal with keeping the batteries healthy, and ready to go at a moments notice?

 

[Judge64]

I'm not sure too many owners have had to deal with winter yet and I am pretty sure some units sat out last winter on dealer lots without following Xantrex's recommendations.

But here are my thoughts....

I installed five 170Ah LiFePO4 batteries in my Super C. When I was storing it at my property in PA in the winter months, I followed a similar storage procedure recommended in the attached Xantrex doc.

I would discharge them about 30 - 50% and then I removed them from the coach and stored them inside. They weighed about 50lbs each vs the 85lbs of the Xanrtrex 310Ah.

I don't have to worry about winter storage anymore since I am selling the PA property and keeping the coach in Florida year round but if it were me and the coach was going to be stored for a month or so and temps would stay above 15F, I would just not keep the coach plugged in at all so I didn't have to worry about it charging.

If I was not going to use the coach for more than two months and temps were going to consistently be below 32F over that time, I think I would remove the batteries and store them inside.

If you were going to be storing them for more than two months and temps were going to bounce between 40F - 50F, I might consider putting a light bulb in the battery compartment to keep them at or above 50F.


Also... there are settings for the built-in battery warmer. If you decide to roll the dice and keep it plugged in, make sure you change it from the Default Settings on the eGen Display. I think by Default the warmers are off. Then there is an option to turn it on manually for one cycle. Then there is an option for them to come on automatically.

 

[burtbick]

I'm not sure too many owners have had to deal with winter yet and I am pretty sure some units sat out last winter without following Xantrex's recommendations.

But here are my thoughts....

I installed five 170Ah LiFePO4 batteries in my Super C. When I was storing it at my property in PA in the winter months, I followed a similar storage procedure recommended in the attached Xantrex doc.

I would discharge them about 30 - 50% and then I removed them from the coach and stored them inside. They weighed about 50lbs each vs the 85lbs of the Xanrtrex 310Ah.

I don't have to worry about winter storage anymore since I am selling the PA property and keeping the coach in Florida year round but if it were me and the coach was going to be stored for a month or two and temps would stay above 15F, I would not keep the coach plugged in at all.

I I was not going to use the batteries for more than two months and temps were going to consistently be below 50F over that time, I think I would remove the batteries and store them inside.

If you were going to be storing them for more than two months and temps were going to bounce between 40F - 50F, I might consider putting an light bulb in the battery compartment to keep it at or above 50F.

Thanks,


I figured that there might not be too many FE owners who've had to deal with cold weather operation.



I'm thinking more like a couple of weeks between trips, so I was hoping to avoid having to remove the batteries and then need to reinstall them in the RV.


And it is more a case of having 12V if the morning we would be leaving the temps are below the optimum operating point.


Here in East TN we usually have relatively moderate winters, but sometimes it can really dip down. We have had cases of the temps dropping into the single digits for a couple of days, but that is pretty rare.


But we do get a fair amount of nights in the 20's so that is a concern. We're trying to plan out next trip to FL and maybe Gulf Shores to stay until things look to be a bit warmer back here in TN. Then we'll rinse and repeat towards the end of December, but it will be a bit of a crap shoot.


I'm thinking about sticking a light bulb in the battery compartment as you suggested. I did use a combination of light bulbs and heat lamps in our class A just as a hedge to keep some of the plumbing warm. Of course since some of the pipes are exposed on the underside of the RV that's not as effective with the Isata.


I was going to review the battery docs again to look at the cold weather operation/storage.

 

[Judge64]

There are settings for the built-in battery warmers. If you decide to roll the dice and keep it plugged in, make sure you change it from the Default Settings on the eGen Display. I think by Default the warmers are off. Then there is an option to turn it on manually for one cycle. Then there is an option for them to come on automatically.

I think the light bulb is the way to go..... if you can find a good old fashioned incandescent bulb!

 

[roonabeck]

Google “lizard lamp” for heat lamp options of varying wattages.

 

[burtbick]

Google “lizard lamp” for heat lamp options of varying wattages.

Thanks, I'll check it out.


I do have some heat lamps I used in our previous Class A, but that was just some added insurance to keep the bath area, under sinks and the fresh tank plumbing under the bed above freezing just in case I missed something blowing out the water lines when winterizing.


In this case it's mainly going to be making sure that the batteries stay warm during the cold nights.


I'm also thinking about making up some skirting from foam board. When we had a few single digit days last year before we traded it off I improvised some with cardboard for the Class A, and that helped get though those few days before we got ready for another trip south.


It would be easier for the Isata and I would make it easier to set up and lock together, but I'm still thinking about that. I hope to have an enclosed space for next year where I can keep a minimum amount of heat for storing the Isata 3. But have to get though this winter.

 

[burtbick]

Thanks, I'll check it out.


I do have some heat lamps I used in our previous Class A, but that was just some added insurance to keep the bath area, under sinks and the fresh tank plumbing under the bed above freezing just in case I missed something blowing out the water lines when winterizing.


In this case it's mainly going to be making sure that the batteries stay warm during the cold nights.


I'm also thinking about making up some skirting from foam board. When we had a few single digit days last year before we traded it off I improvised some with cardboard for the Class A, and that helped get though those few days before we got ready for another trip south.


It would be easier for the Isata and I would make it easier to set up and lock together, but I'm still thinking about that. I hope to have an enclosed space for next year where I can keep a minimum amount of heat for storing the Isata 3. But have to get though this winter.

Looking at the docs for the eGen and the Xantrex batteries I think that we should be fine without doing too much, at least for the upcoming trip.


I am adding a reptile heater to the battery compartment that I'll turn on when the temps dip below 40. Odds are that will keep things warm enough so the battery internal heaters won't need to run.



But I'll also make sure that the eGen is configured so that they will turn on if needed.


Even the coldest temps that we are likely to encounter on our return would not prevent the batteries from providing 12V power, but again I'll have the battery heaters enabled to come on as needed, and will have the lizard heater running when we stop for night on the return trip.


Since we will only be parked for a week or two between trips, I think if I keep some heat on in the RV and the lizard heater on as needed there shouldn't be any issues with the batteries. At least from what I can see in the specs.

 

[RV_Lee]

Are they not self heated? I dont have a FE but I have a big lithium that has self heaters that click on when the temp hits 32F/0C

 

[Judge64]

Are they not self heated? I dont have a FE but I have a big lithium that has self heaters that click on when the temp hits 32F/0C

They do have heaters, which is fine for temps just below freezing over short periods of time.

But I wouldn’t want to chance relying on them for 2 or 3 months or having the coach plugged in and charging with temps below 20F for long periods of time.
I would also want to make sure temps remained warm enouh for $6K in batteries.

 

[burtbick]

They do have heaters, which is fine for temps just below freezing over short periods of time.

But I wouldn’t want to chance relying on them for 2 or 3 months or having the coach plugged in and charging with temps below 20F for long periods of time.
I would also want to make sure temps remained warm enouh for $6K in batteries.

Exactly.. In our case we are planning several trips over the cold weather period heading south.


But in between we will be back home between trips for various reasons including some doctor visits that are scheduled.


So our plan is to use some supplemental heat in the battery compartment, and as needed within the MH.



The long term forecast for the areas we are traveling through has night time temps dropping into the 20's but day time is projected to be in the mid-40's.


I do monitor the temps in the RV, including the battery compartment.



If we were going to just have it parked where the temps are going to be below 40 degrees for a month then I would put the batteries into long term storage configuration and bring them inside to keep them warm.


But since we are only going to be parked for maybe a week, or two at the max then using supplemental heat, and the battery internal heat as a fall back should protect the batteries.



I also would not want to rely solely on the battery internal heater.

 

[burtbick]

Well, after a few days of normal operation the eGen cycling started up again.


This is after I made the changes to correct the settings for the breaker size and max charge current back to what they were for the old inverter.


It had been fine all morning but after lunch I went out to clean up some storage and remove things we haven't used on the last few trips.



When I opened the door there is was. No 12V and the pack 2 LED was flashing the cell over voltage fault code again. Then as before the batteries and eGen came back on line. But still was showing the fault condition. And it cycled a few more times.


When it was on SOC was 100% but then when it alarmed that dropped to 49% (pack 2 going off line).


So I pulled shore power, and ran the A/C to bring SOC down to 88%. Initially Pack 2 was still showing the fault condition and was not on line, but a single quick press of the remote button got that cleared and going again.


After getting to 88% I reconnected shore power and let it charge up. After 4 hours it was still holding at 100% and hadn't cycled again.


Xantrex keeps saying that this is normal and that it is just re-balancing, but I didn't see this happening with the previous FW version so I'm not sure what is really going on, but at the moment it concerns me. When the 12V drops FireFly resets. Not worried about the clock, but it defaults to A/C (heatpump) and Truma Combi off. This could be a problem if you are away from the RV for an extended period and you need A/C or heat. Not to mention that a eGen power cycle storm is going to be very hard on the 12v fridge.


Any other Freedom Edition owners seen this with the old FW? Or if you have had the FW update done have you experienced this issue?


If I can't get a definitive answer from Xantrex on why this is happening I guess when ever we leave the campground for any length of time I'll kill shore power and let it run on batteries while we are gone.

 

[llwill]

I don't think what you are seeing is normal. I have 1 battery that goes into overvoltage alarm more often than I would like, but seems to self recover after a while. It does not effect anything else in the 12V system. The only indications is the SOC at 48-50 and the red fault light. It will correct and even turn the fault light off. I have the software/firmware from this summer. My eGen screen can still show the cell status.

 

[Judge64]

I don't think what you are seeing is normal. I have 1 battery that goes into overvoltage alarm more often than I would like, but seems to self recover after a while. It does not effect anything else in the 12V system. The only indications is the SOC at 48-50 and the red fault light. It will correct and even turn the fault light off. I have the software/firmware from this summer. My eGen screen can still show the cell status.

That is the way mine behaves….. but we don’t have the latest firmware that was just released on October 8 by Xantrex with a new TSB.

Burt got it when Xantrex replaced his Inverter two weeks ago:

I had my Inverter replaced by a dealer two weels ago and fortunately they couldn’t install the new battery and eGen firmware while I had it there.

 

[burtbick]

That is the way mine behaves….. but we don’t have the latest firmware that was just released on October 8 by Xantrex with a new TSB.

Burt got it when Xantrex replaced his Inverter two weeks ago:

I had my Inverter replaced by a dealer two weels ago and fortunately they couldn’t install the new battery and eGen firmware while I had it there.

Thanks all,


Brian is checking with their Battery Expert in Canada to see what they think might be happening.


I sent him llwill's and your feedback/confirmation that the old FW is not functioning the same as the latest as far as cycling the eGen and 12V power.


I know he said that they had made "minor" changes to the re-balancing, but for whatever reason they don't appear to be minor in my case.



I also had some suggestions for improvements to the FW for future updates, as well as to the Xantrex battery app.


For example there should be a way to get to the cell status page that was removed with the latest FW update.


There is currently no way for a user to see what the highest cell voltage is if there is an over voltage fault condition.



If they can't restore the cell status page then update the Xantrex battery app to allow you to see the individual cell status as previously reported in the eGen screen. Then when you have a COV you could use the app to see what might be going on.


Another possibility might be to have the phone apps be able to set the time and date in each battery, and then the battery would be able to have a useful timestamp. That should be possible since the battery has internal timers that are being used for other functionality.



At the very least when the log the COV in the fault history then also record the highest voltage cell level.


Also, since there is no time stamp assigned to the fault history entries it is impossible to know if something is an old fault or a new one.


And there should be a way to clear the fault history for the same reason.


After you have seen what is in the history if you cleared it then it would be obvious when a new fault appeared.


I'm just guessing but I think that they keep the last 2 faults for each pack since there are two entries in each cell's fault history.



So I'm waiting to hear back from Canada with suggestions.


Since I did the partial discharge and recharge yesterday it has remained stable as of a little be ago this morning.

 

[Bearii-FRF]

Burt - sorry to see you're having this issue, it has to be very frustrating.

Regarding the issue of what to do with the batteries short term in colder weather. We're in New England currently and temps are dipping below 32F so I'm glad you mentioned this topic. I was reminded to turn the warming function back on for the batteries. In early March when we purchased the coach we were in Colorado and still had several morning in the teens and twenties. I had turned on the battery warming and things must have worked well because my batteries have functioned just fine all this time.

I've got an additional advantage now, we live in the coach so the temp is always at least 65F in the coach (night time). With the fan I have blowing air into the battery compartment I know that heated air is being pushed into the battery compartment now from under the bed so I doubt my batteries will ever even get cool enough to turn on the warmers.

One thing to note, when you select the warming function there are two choices:

1. Keep it warm enough to discharge only
2. Keep it warm enough to charge the batteries

When those show up I'm not sure what the numbers mean at the end of the choices - does anyone know? Are those the acceptable temp limits for the choice selection - they don't match the stated specs? At any rate, if you're planning on charging the batteries be sure you select the second option.

 

[burtbick]

Burt - sorry to see you're having this issue, it has to be very frustrating.

Regarding the issue of what to do with the batteries short term in colder weather. We're in New England currently and temps are dipping below 32F so I'm glad you mentioned this topic. I was reminded to turn the warming function back on for the batteries. In early March when we purchased the coach we were in Colorado and still had several morning in the teens and twenties. I had turned on the battery warming and things must have worked well because my batteries have functioned just fine all this time.

I've got an additional advantage now, we live in the coach so the temp is always at least 65F in the coach (night time). With the fan I have blowing air into the battery compartment I know that heated air is being pushed into the battery compartment now from under the bed so I doubt my batteries will ever even get cool enough to turn on the warmers.

One thing to note, when you select the warming function there are two choices:

1. Keep it warm enough to discharge only
2. Keep it warm enough to charge the batteries

When those show up I'm not sure what the numbers mean at the end of the choices - does anyone know? Are those the acceptable temp limits for the choice selection - they don't match the stated specs? At any rate, if you're planning on charging the batteries be sure you select the second option.

Thanks, that's good to know.


On our trip south we will have a couple of nights in the 30's until we to south GA.


On our way back home we will likely have some 20 something degree nights for a week or so between trips, so my plan is to have the battery heating enabled when we head out and pretty much leave it active until we get to warmer weather. And I'll keep enough heat on inside to keep things around at least 50 degrees.



And I also have a fan blowing house air into the battery compartment, and for good measure I have the lizard heater that I can use if needed to keep the battery box toasty.


Yeah the COV issue is kind of frustrating. Especially since it's not clear if it is pack 2 getting flakier or if it is all down to the new FW update.


I'm thinking that if it was just pack 2 getting flakier it still shouldn't cause pack 1 to also power down. So I think that is likely on the new FW. I've suggested that to Xantrex so we'll see what they come back with.

 

[xrpb11a]

I've had a couple single battery disconnects since march, but no overvoltage errors, only the battery disconnects which the remote BMS button easily corrected.

I did have the inverter shut down due to heat while driving back from Pismo Beach with the air conditioner running, but we all know now what causes that. I got lucky with the inverter coming back online with a power down and up at the inverter.

One interesting point is that I keep my rig at work. I have not had it plugged in all spring/summer during storage, as the solar keeps the batteries charged up.
. No shore charging....hmmm

Of course we are getting massive sun every day around Sacramento.
Typically at sunrise I have a 97% charge, and at sunset it is at 100% in storage. I burn off 3% every night with the trickle drainage. Power button at step is OFF, but batteries still online.
When we take it out and come back, it is always around 100% going into storage.

I was planning to have it plugged in during winter, but with the battery storage info posted by Judge64, I now plan to just power down the fully charged batteries. I tested for battery drain last night and today. Powered down the batteries yesterday at 97%. Just powered them up today and still at 97% so that eliminates the 3% nightly drop I was getting.

Still on original battery / inverter / firefly firmware received in March.
And I don't bother to use the app or firefly for Truma functions. Everything works fine with their controller and it's just a couple steps from front to back of coach.

Any other Freedom Edition owners seen this with the old FW? Or if you have had the FW update done have you experienced this issue?

 

[bclemens]

I've had a couple single battery disconnects since march, but no overvoltage errors, only the battery disconnects which the remote BMS button easily corrected.

I did have the inverter shut down due to heat while driving back from Pismo Beach with the air conditioner running, but we all know now what causes that. I got lucky with the inverter coming back online with a power down and up at the inverter.

One interesting point is that I keep my rig at work. I have not had it plugged in all spring/summer during storage, as the solar keeps the batteries charged up.
. No shore charging....hmmm

Of course we are getting massive sun every day around Sacramento.
Typically at sunrise I have a 97% charge, and at sunset it is at 100% in storage. I burn off 3% every night with the trickle drainage. Power button at step is OFF, but batteries still online.
When we take it out and come back, it is always around 100% going into storage.

I was planning to have it plugged in during winter, but with the battery storage info posted by Judge64, I now plan to just power down the fully charged batteries. I tested for battery drain last night and today. Powered down the batteries yesterday at 97%. Just powered them up today and still at 97% so that eliminates the 3% nightly drop I was getting.

Still on original battery / inverter / firefly firmware received in March.
And I don't bother to use the app or firefly for Truma functions. Everything works fine with their controller and it's just a couple steps from front to back of coach.

Sounds pretty good.

 

[xrpb11a]

The only thing that stands out from my usage vs other posters is
* average 2-3 days per 2 weeks usage, mostly plugging in at RV sites, sometimes not
* only charging from shore power for short durations during trips

I wonder if the internal power spike protection in the inverter is sufficient when plugging into dirty ac power, weakening the battery/inverter components.

 

[bclemens]

We are also exploring a power surge from the A/C. Xantrex seems to point to that as a possible issue on one here. Not sure why it would be with power change over....but if there is an "internal reset" as the power changes over, it could be like startup again. If that is the case, a soft start would correct it.