Isata 3 Freedom Edition Owners Only - Xantrex eGen System Log

[Judge64]

Isata 3 Freedom Edition Owner Only - I thought it would be helpful to keep a questions and issues Log specifically related to the Xantrex eGen System (including FireFly).

This Log is intended for questions related to the Xantrex eGen system as well to document issues for Dynamax to investigate with Xantrex and FireFly .

I am hopeful this particular thread can be used for us to help each other and for Dynamax to be proactive and help us investigate things that we can't address or solve on our own.

This Log is not intended for general Isata 3 questions or issues such as Slide issues, Leveler Issue, etc. so please keep those in the General Dynamax Forum.

It could be helpful in some cases to document your info and attach it in a PDF file of there is a lot of information and pictures that need to be included. Otherwise, use the Advanced Reply option and use the Title Section above the Reply Section to help organize the topics of your specific question or issue.


The Admins can decide if this Thread should eventually become a "Sticky" for easier reference.

 

[Judge64]

Shore Power Automatic Transfer to Inverter Under Load

After the Xantrex eGen Webcast, I wanted to do some system testing based on some of the A/C (air conditioning) issues that Dave and Burt have experienced when there appears to be a power or communication loss between the Xantrex System and the FireFly System.

I wanted to simulate a power failure or having an aftermarket EMS interrupt power because of low voltage or other shore power event to see how the Xantrex system handles a somewhat common campground problem.

Here was my testing conditions, results and issue:

Test Conditions

1. Batteries: 100% SOC

2. 30A Shore Power: Connected to 30A Service at Home

3. A/C Running for 5 minutes with Set Temp 72 and Ambient Temp 75

4. Inverter On and in By-Pass Mode (ATS off and allowing shore power to pass-through the Inverter)

5. Xantrex Firmware Versions: Inverter Firmware v03.23 / Communications Card Firmware v02.10 / Optional Bluetooth Remote Panel Firmware v01.23

6. FireFly Firmware Versions: GUI Version 6.3 / Logic Controller Version 6.3 / G12 Firmware Version 4.0g / Config Revision 6.3


Event

Shore Power Breaker switched off to simulate power outage or EMS event interrupting shore power while A/C is running.


Results

Once I switched off the 30A breaker the A/C stopped (both the fan and the compressor) and I heard the Inverter Alarm going off. I went to my Bluetooth Remote Panel inside the coach and the red LED was flashing and the display indicated an 03 Error.

According to the Xantrex Error Codes, the E03 is an AC Output Overload Shutdown. The recommendation is to reduce the loads connected to the AC outlet of the unit. Check appliances that have high-surge ratings and disconnect if necessary.


Issue

While I'm not to surprised this error condition occurred with the A/C running during a power failure, I do have some questions / concerns.

First, the Inverter was set to Auto Recover. According to the Freedom XC Pro Manual..... if the inverter shuts down when there is an over temperature, overload, or short circuit condition. Selecting ATO (auto-restart) will allow the inverter/charger to recover automatically from a shutdown up to three times maximum.

I waited about a minute and the Inverter had not recovered. I then made sure to turn the A/C off at the FireFly Display and then wait another minute. After the Inverter remained in the E03 state, I used the Bluetooth Remote Panel to power cycle the Inverter to clear the error. When the Inverter came back online, the error was cleared.

I then went back to the FireFly Display and turned the A/C back on. The A/C did start running again normally; this time with power being provided from the Inverter and shore power still off.

After the A/C ran 5 minutes under Inverter power, I turned the shore power breaker back on the the A/C continued to run normally and the batteries went into a charging mode.


Concern

I am going to run this test again today and be more patient to see if the Inverter will Auto Recover and I will report my results.

But the concern is that some of us have pets that we may leave in the coach for a period of time in warm temps. If the Inverter and A/C won't automatically recover after a power failure or EMS event, then this becomes a bit of a concern.

I was thinking about installing a SoftStart to be able to run the A/C off a 15A circuit. I also thought that without a SoftStart, the Inverter ATS would just engage if a 15A breaker tripped and the A/C would continue to run normally off the Inverter. That now looks like it might not be the case.

I'm now thinking a SoftStart may be of no benefit at all. While a SoftStart will reduce the amps required to start the device and should allow the A/C to start on a 15A circuit, the SoftStart is not going to help with the ATS switch-over if the A/C is running on a 15A breaker that trips. The SoftStart is also not going to reduce the load on the Inverter if the A/C is already running and shore power goes offline.

According to the Freedom XC Pro 3000 specs, the Transfer Relay is rated for 40A Continuous but that is for 50A input. Since we only have 30A input, the Freedom XC Pro 2000 Transfer Relay is rated for 24A Continuous for 30A input. Since the A/C runs on less than 20A, I would think the A/C would continue to run when shore power is removed since no other AC power was being consumed.

I will run this test again today and wait for a longer period of time to see if the Inverter and A/C eventually recover on their own. Based on the Freedom XC Pro Manual, the Inverter should recover from an overload condition. When the A/C stops running, the overload has been removed and so should be the error condition.

It the Inverter does not Auto Recover as it should, then we may need to ask Xantrex about this issue. If the Inverter eventually does recover, then we'll have to see if the A/C recovers once AC power is restored via the Inverter.


Workaround

A temporary (or permanent workaround) may be to shut off shore power before starting the A/C when leaving the coach unattended so that the A/C can run off the batteries and continues to run should a shore power interruption occur while away from the coach. Once you return to the coach, shore power can be enabled again to recharge the batteries and operate the AC appliances normally.

 

[Judge64]

Shore Power Automatic Transfer to Inverter Under Load

So I reran my loss of shore power test today under the exact same test conditions and unfortunately... or fortunately depending on your perspective.... I got different results; albeit the results that I was hoping to see originally yesterday.


Test Conditions

1. Batteries: 100% SOC

2. 30A Shore Power: Connected to 30A Service at Home

3. A/C Running for 5 minutes with Set Temp 74 and Ambient Temp 78

4. Inverter On and in By-Pass Mode (ATS off and allowing shore power to pass-through the Inverter)

5. Xantrex Firmware Versions: Inverter Firmware v03.23 / Communications Card Firmware v02.10 / Optional Bluetooth Remote Panel Firmware v01.23

6. FireFly Firmware Versions: GUI Version 6.3 / Logic Controller Version 6.3 / G12 Firmware Version 4.0g / Config Revision 6.3


Event

Shore Power Breaker switched off to simulate power outage or EMS event interrupting shore power while A/C is running.


Results

Once I switched off the 30A breaker the A/C stopped (both the fan and the compressor) again, but only for a few seconds.

This time there was no Inverter Alarm and after a few seconds the A/C fan started running again. The FireFly was displaying SHED so the compressor was not running.

I waited a couple minutes before touching anything and then the compressor came back on and the SHED indicator was gone. The A/C continued to run off the Inverter until it hit the set temp of 74F.


Conclusion

This was the way I thought the system would / should work when I tried it yesterday. Not sure why it worked today but yesterday the Inverter kicked out the E03 error under identical test conditions so that is a bit disconcerting.

I will likely run the test again tomorrow since it is hard to say what will happen more often than not. But at least I know the system is capable of functioning the way I believed it should..... and even the way the Xantrex Inverter documentation seemed to indicate it should.






Also.... on an unrelated note.... while I was letting the A/C run for a few minutes before starting the test, I pulled the vent screens. I found the plenum divider was out of position and partially blocking the openings to the ceiling ducts. That means it was sucking some of the cold air back into the air return. This is a common issue with the Coleman-Mach units. I wish Airxcel would duct tape the divider in place when they assemble them or the RV manufacturer would do it during installation, Everyone I have owned has had this issue. I will say Dynamax did an excellent job making the A/C insulation clean of debris and they foil taped the area inside the unit very well to prevent other air leaks in the system.

I did order this kit, which is a much cheaper version of the RV AirFlow product quiets the unit and forced all air through the ceiling ducts. https://www.ebay.com/itm/314837518923

 

[burtbick]

When invveter and FireFly loose communication cannot run A/C

Test Conditions


Nothing special, we were connected to shore power as usual. Issue happened during setup.


Maybe pulling the CAN bus connection might duplicate the issue, but not sure.


Event


Our trip to FL was pretty uneventful other than concerns about the slide motors surviving the trip. We partially addressed that issue using a mobile tech to adjust the slide topper to eliminate the severe drag it was putting on the slide. That's not related to this issue.


When we arrived at our campsite in Riverview, FL I got hooked up and at that point we had shore power. I use an EMS so at that point the power was good.


I typically get the shore power going first so we can start the A/C.



After finishing the rest of the set up I went inside to find that the A/C was running in SHED mode. Fan only, no compressor. Looking at the power display in FireFly there were dashes where the shore power values are normally shown, and no graphics showing any power flow from inverter to loads or batteries. Also the inverter as N/A.


Tried to reach Dynamax support but no luck there. It was about 4PM ET. So called Xantrex support and got great assistance there as I have the last two times I called with issues/questions.



There is a new firmware update for the communications board in the inverter. We tried several times to get the update to take. The tech was watching live while I did all the steps so I didn't drop the ball there. We think it was the brand of USB drive I had available which was a cheap Walmart store brand. They recommend a SanDisk 8 GB drive.


So we gave up on that tack. By now the MH was at 105 degrees inside and not much fun. I finally asked if it would be worth it to reboot FireFly since it appeared that the inverter comms were up and running with no issues. So we tried that.


And, thankfully, that go things talking again and FireFly and the inverter were on speaking terms again. It took a long time to bring down the MH, but if finally got there.


We had no more communication issues for the remainder of the trip.


Conclusion


IMHO there is a design flaw in the FireFly implementation related to the A/C. The assumption is made that everything is always working flawlessly, with no thought to an issue such as we experienced with the communications disruption between the FireFly and the inverter. There are many things that could cause this to happen.



FireFly CAN bus driver might fail.
Cabling failure.
Inverter comm board failure.
Firmware/software bug on either FireFly or inverter.


In all cases when FireFly cannot talk to the inverter it will run the A/C in SHED mode. Even though you could see from the inverter screen that all was well as far was the inverter was concerned and we had solid shore power.


The design flaw is that there is no emergency override option in FireFly, at least not that I could find. So if we hadn't been able to revive things by rebooting FireFly that would have rendered the Isata 3 useless in the extreme heat.


I have passed a suggestion to Dynamax that they work with FireFly to implement I know what I'm doing and I want you to run the A/C even if you think that you cannot.


This failure also drives how a point that as nice as the FireFly system is when it is working you are pretty much depending on it for lots of things. So even with an override option I can see cases where a major FireFly failure could leave you in the same state.


For that I think I will buy a good old standard thermostat and add the ability to switch control of the A/C between FireFly and that emergency backup thermostat.



I will be discussing this when I'm at Dynamax in about 10 days.

 

[Judge64]

Test Conditions


Nothing special, we were connected to shore power as usual. Issue happened during setup.


Maybe pulling the CAN bus connection might duplicate the issue, but not sure.


Event


Our trip to FL was pretty uneventful other than concerns about the slide motors surviving the trip. We partially addressed that issue using a mobile tech to adjust the slide topper to eliminate the severe drag it was putting on the slide. That's not related to this issue.


When we arrived at our campsite in Riverview, FL I got hooked up and at that point we had shore power. I use an EMS so at that point the power was good.


I typically get the shore power going first so we can start the A/C.



After finishing the rest of the set up I went inside to find that the A/C was running in SHED mode. Fan only, no compressor. Looking at the power display in FireFly there were dashes where the shore power values are normally shown, and no graphics showing any power flow from inverter to loads or batteries. Also the inverter as N/A.


Tried to reach Dynamax support but no luck there. It was about 4PM ET. So called Xantrex support and got great assistance there as I have the last two times I called with issues/questions.



There is a new firmware update for the communications board in the inverter. We tried several times to get the update to take. The tech was watching live while I did all the steps so I didn't drop the ball there. We think it was the brand of USB drive I had available which was a cheap Walmart store brand. They recommend a SanDisk 8 GB drive.


So we gave up on that tack. By now the MH was at 105 degrees inside and not much fun. I finally asked if it would be worth it to reboot FireFly since it appeared that the inverter comms were up and running with no issues. So we tried that.


And, thankfully, that go things talking again and FireFly and the inverter were on speaking terms again. It took a long time to bring down the MH, but if finally got there.


We had no more communication issues for the remainder of the trip.


Conclusion


IMHO there is a design flaw in the FireFly implementation related to the A/C. The assumption is made that everything is always working flawlessly, with no thought to an issue such as we experienced with the communications disruption between the FireFly and the inverter. There are many things that could cause this to happen.



FireFly CAN bus driver might fail.
Cabling failure.
Inverter comm board failure.
Firmware/software bug on either FireFly or inverter.


In all cases when FireFly cannot talk to the inverter it will run the A/C in SHED mode. Even though you could see from the inverter screen that all was well as far was the inverter was concerned and we had solid shore power.


The design flaw is that there is no emergency override option in FireFly, at least not that I could find. So if we hadn't been able to revive things by rebooting FireFly that would have rendered the Isata 3 useless in the extreme heat.


I have passed a suggestion to Dynamax that they work with FireFly to implement I know what I'm doing and I want you to run the A/C even if you think that you cannot.


This failure also drives how a point that as nice as the FireFly system is when it is working you are pretty much depending on it for lots of things. So even with an override option I can see cases where a major FireFly failure could leave you in the same state.


For that I think I will buy a good old standard thermostat and add the ability to switch control of the A/C between FireFly and that emergency backup thermostat.



I will be discussing this when I'm at Dynamax in about 10 days.

I've had the FireFly before and it works well. I did have a mainboard problem in the first few months related to A/C control. But after it was replaced it worked without a problem for 4 years.

Unfortunately if the FireFly System or any multiplex system completely fails, you lose the A/C and even the water pump. At least the slide and levelers will continue to work.

I have seen people temporary bypass the water pump control after a failure. I am going to look to see if you can plug in a regular thermostat into the Coleman-Mach as a temporary bypass.

I have an old Coleman-Mach analog thermostat and I can access the connectors in the unit fairly easily after removing the screens. If I can get the schematics for our unit, it may be possible to wires a connector that will plug right in.


At least my system recovered in my second test. I may try a third test today after I complete sanitizing the fresh water system.

 

[burtbick]

Yes, that's the problem with a single point of failure system. I suspect that the FireFly HW will be reasonably reliable. At least as much as anything today.


But that still doesn't change the facts that:
1 - They should have an emergency "I know what I'm doing" option to allow running the A/C if at all possible.
2 - There should be a clear path to installing a backup thermostat to cover the, hopefully, rare case of a FireFly HW failure.


Since we don't do a lot of "boondocking" I'm not as worried about not having the water pump, and if FireFly choked I can jury rig power to the if needed.


My thought is that there should be nothing too magical about the FireFly to A/C implementation. I have the pin outs for the main board and what each input and output feeds. My thought is to identify each of the control lines to the Coleman and install a change over switch to select either FireFly or a backup thermostat. I'm sure I'll find some more details to work though. But in concept that should be pretty straight forward, and would not require tying in at the A/C.


On to dropping the cover on the A/C to check for air leaks and to make sure the divider is in its proper location..

 

[Bearii-FRF]

...

Also.... on an unrelated note.... while I was letting the A/C run for a few minutes before starting the test, I pulled the vent screens. I found the plenum divider was out of position and partially blocking the openings to the ceiling ducts. That means it was sucking some of the cold air back into the air return. This is a common issue with the Coleman-Mach units. I wish Airxcel would duct tape the divider in place when they assemble them or the RV manufacturer would do it during installation, Everyone I have owned has had this issue. I will say Dynamax did an excellent job making the A/C insulation clean of debris and they foil taped the area inside the unit very well to prevent other air leaks in the system.

I did order this kit, which is a much cheaper version of the RV AirFlow product quiets the unit and forced all air through the ceiling ducts. https://www.ebay.com/itm/314837518923

Chris - first of all, thanks for putting this thread together and the excellent documentation!

Second, I was trying some things out yesterday because I've had several instances where the inverter shut down with the fan running at what seems like max. I had the shore power unplugged and tried to start the Air Con and it did it again. It dawned on my overnight that perhaps I had the Truma hot water heater on. This morning I turned on the Truma hot water heater, set it on Hot, with two electrical elements running (no diesel). On those settings Truma was consuming 57% of my electrical load - in other words, the Air Con startup would have overloaded the inverter for sure. I need to do more structured testing like you set up here and try this again. I'm just waiting for the outside temps to warm up a little before running the Air Con. I wanted to mention this though because I was not aware that running two electrical elements on the Truma would consume so much wattage. Perhaps if we need Air Con AND hot water on battery power we should either run only one electrical element or strictly run it on diesel. For that matter maybe on battery power we should definitely run the Truma on diesel to conserve battery power!??!

Third - really glad to see you ordered the ebay version of the RV Airflow. After a recent post on FB about the RV Airflow for our coaches I explored Youtuber's reviews some more and was amazed at the improved airflows some were reporting. I had done a simplified version of the RV Airflow on previous rigs. I was just cutting up styrofoam boards and taping it into place. It had worked very well. Alas, I fell into the trap of thinking commercial solutions might be better than a DIY hack. So I ordered RV Airflow and installed it.

When I measured everything I noticed that Dynamax had installed reducers on the output vents from the Air Con. I thought that was strange but didn't pull them off to examine it more closely. I wish I had because then I would have realized that the RV Airflow was not going to be worth the money. When I went to install the RV Airflow I pulled off the reducers and discovered that Dynamax had gotten lazy in their construction of the ducting in the ceiling. Their ducting doesn't mate up with the opening for the Air Con, hence the reducers they installed to make up the difference. But here is where the laziness in design gets worse. The size of the reducer is significantly smaller than the duct opening. As a result air is being pushed into the ducting but then can vent right back out the sides that are not covered by the reducer. Out of the gate I bet you're getting at least a loss of 25% of the airflow.

Unfortunately the RV airflow solution can't really help. First, the opening behind the reducers is not big enough to allow the RV Airflow vent collars to fit. Since I'm on the road I don't have a way to cut the opening larger. Even if I could there are two more problems, one, the RV airflow vent collar is bigger than the ducting, two, the collar is not deep enough because the ducting sits to far away from the Air Con, hence the long reducers that Dynamax uses. At best if you can modify the Air Con frame to put in the vent collars you'll have to find someway to tape it all up from the inside of the vent collar, an almost impossible task. I ended up reinstalling the Dynamax reducers and trying to tape up the sides somewhat to help reduce the loss of airflow by the fact that the reducers are too small in width. I may have helped it a little bit but I doubt much.

The good news is that the other parts of the RV Airflow fit well and I believe did help some with the airflow. Hence, the wisdom of your decision, the part that you can do something about is what you bought.

On another note, I tried the Wacko RV Silencer and was very pleasantly surprised that that product worked like it was supposed to. Installation was simple over top of the RV Airflow installation and it dramatically reduces the noise of the Air Con. If I was to do this over again I'd buy what you bought on ebay and the RV Silencer and install them together.

 

[Bearii-FRF]

Yes, that's the problem with a single point of failure system. I suspect that the FireFly HW will be reasonably reliable. At least as much as anything today.


But that still doesn't change the facts that:
1 - They should have an emergency "I know what I'm doing" option to allow running the A/C if at all possible.
2 - There should be a clear path to installing a backup thermostat to cover the, hopefully, rare case of a FireFly HW failure.


Since we don't do a lot of "boondocking" I'm not as worried about not having the water pump, and if FireFly choked I can jury rig power to the if needed.


My thought is that there should be nothing too magical about the FireFly to A/C implementation. I have the pin outs for the main board and what each input and output feeds. My thought is to identify each of the control lines to the Coleman and install a change over switch to select either FireFly or a backup thermostat. I'm sure I'll find some more details to work though. But in concept that should be pretty straight forward, and would not require tying in at the A/C.


On to dropping the cover on the A/C to check for air leaks and to make sure the divider is in its proper location..

Burt, I look forward to seeing how this goes. I would be nice to have a backup.

 

[burtbick]

Yes, for sure on having a backup way to keep the air running. It was an uncomfortable feeling. Both physical and emotional, to have FireFly refusing to run the A/C even though there was no issue other than a "failure to comminicate".


On the air flow issue, I'm just about ready to pop the cover off the A/C to check to see if there are some air leaks I can tape up, as well as making sure the divider is in place.


We have the two closest vents that have very little air flow, the others including over the bunk and in the bed area all have really good airflow. So that is a bit odd, I have that on the list for Dynamax when we are there.


I had installed the RV silencer on our last RV with a Coleman Mach. It made a huge difference in sound level checked with DB meter. And it improved air flow a bit there.


Believe it or not the Coleman in our rig is much quieter than what was in our Class A.

 

[Judge64]

Firefly Communication / Control Issue with Truma Combi

So I have run across a problem with the FireFly controlling the Truma Combi. The FireFly Display seems to report the status to some extent but it is not controlling the Truma Combi.

The FireFly app seems to communicate wand control the Truma Combi; albeit it's a little clunky.

Test Conditions

1. Running on Inverter and Battery Power; no shore power.

2. I used the Truma Combi Display to put the unit into water heating mode ECO.

3. Water heated via the diesel burner as expected.

4. Attempted to use the FireFly Display to turn off the hot water

5. FireFly Firmware Versions: GUI Version 6.3 / Logic Controller Version 6.3 / G12 Firmware Version 4.0g / Config Revision 6.3


Event

When the FireFly Display was used to turn the hot water heater from ECO to OFF, the status light flashed green indicating it was communicating with the Truma Combi


Results

After waiting a few minuted I looked at the Truma Combi Display and it still said the water heater was at ECO. When I looked at the FireFly Display, the water heater went from off to HOT.

I then used the FireFly Display to move the water heater mode to OFF. Again the status LED flashed green and after a minute the water heater mode said HOT.

I checked the FireFly app and the water heater status also reported Hot but the Truma Combi Display still said ECO.

I then attempted to use the FireFly app to change the water heater status to OFF. After about 30 seconds or so, the Truma Combi Display reported the hot water heater as OFF.


Repeatability

I was able to repeat this issue again. It seems like there is a communication / control issue between the FireFly display and the Truma Combi.

Below are pictures and screen shots of the FireFly Display and FireFly App.

- The first picture is the FireFly when I turned the water heater to OFF.

- The second picture shows the Truma Combi Display indicating the water heater was set to ECO.

- The third picture shows the FireFly Display changing the Truma Combi Water Heater Status to HOT.

- The fourth picture is the FireFly when I turned the water heater to OFF after it came back with a HOT status.

- The fifth and sixth pictures shows the FireFly Display and app changing the Truma Combi Water Heater Status to HOT again.

- The seventh picture is after I used the FireFly app to turn the water heater back to OFF.



Brian Clemens...... What would be the best way to report this issue to Dynamax? Should I email Support with a link to this thread?

 

[burtbick]

I forgot to add that when I was digging though the Combi specs I could see that running the electric elements was going to suck a huge amount of the power budget, so I haven't even bothered to run on electric, other than testing to make sure it works.


As you found with both elements on it will be almost impossible to run the A/C due to startup draw.


We've just been running the Combi on Diesel for hot water and it works fine, at least with warmer outside temperatures.

 

[Judge64]

Second, I was trying some things out yesterday because I've had several instances where the inverter shut down with the fan running at what seems like max. I had the shore power unplugged and tried to start the Air Con and it did it again. It dawned on my overnight that perhaps I had the Truma hot water heater on. This morning I turned on the Truma hot water heater, set it on Hot, with two electrical elements running (no diesel). On those settings Truma was consuming 57% of my electrical load - in other words, the Air Con startup would have overloaded the inverter for sure. I need to do more structured testing like you set up here and try this again. I'm just waiting for the outside temps to warm up a little before running the Air Con. I wanted to mention this though because I was not aware that running two electrical elements on the Truma would consume so much wattage. Perhaps if we need Air Con AND hot water on battery power we should either run only one electrical element or strictly run it on diesel. For that matter maybe on battery power we should definitely run the Truma on diesel to conserve battery power!??!

Hey Dave,

So you were using the ELC 1 / ELC 2 Modes on the Inverter? Then that very well could cause the Inverter to go into an E03 Error when trying to also add the AC (or even the oven or cooktop) into the mix.

I have not done any measurements running the Truma Combi ELC 1 or ELC 2 off the Inverter. I personally did not intend to use ELC 1 or ELC 2 when running off the Inverter; at least when the weather warm enough to require the A/C.

The only time I could see needing to use ELC 1 / ELC 2 from the Inverter would be to heat a relatively cold water source. From a furnace perspective the diesel is more than enough so the water heater would be the only reason I would use ELC 1 / ELC 2 when on the Inverter in colder climates.

My testing the past couple days was with the A/C only and no other AC appliances drawing power.


All Freedom Edition Owners should probably get used to only running one major appliance off the Inverter.


Even when I put 850Ah of LiFePO4 in my Super C and upgraded to this Inverter / Charger, I never tried to run a major appliance with the A/C running at the same time. I either ran the A/C, or the oven or the cooktop when I was Inverting.


On another note, I would not read into the Inverter fans running on high. I have had this Inverter / Charger before and when Bulk Charging or Inverting something like an A/C or over, it generates a lot of heat and those fans kick on to cool the unit.

 

[Judge64]

Yes, for sure on having a backup way to keep the air running. It was an uncomfortable feeling. Both physical and emotional, to have FireFly refusing to run the A/C even though there was no issue other than a "failure to comminicate".

I hear what you are saying.

I tell people if they don't like technology or are fearful of it... steer clear of high tech RV's. I tell them to stick with RV's that use analog controls because those can be fixed or worked around on the road easily.

Having a FireFly and also doing a Lithium Conversion in my Super C, I knew what I was getting into with the risk of a system failure taking down most of the coach.

In the past I have carried at least $1000 in spare parts to be prepared on the road. I am trying to determine what spare parts I'm going to carry in this coach.

Not saying I like it.... just saying I adjusted my expectations accordingly when purchasing the Freedom Edition and I hope there aren't premature failures. Even though hope is not a very good strategy!!!!!

 

[burtbick]

I agree on carrying spares. In our Class A I carried a bunch of spare parts, just in case. But with the lower OCCC on the Isata 3 I have to be more selective.


I knew that the FireFly could be a central point of failure so that was in the back of my mind, as well as the possibility of an inverter failure. Which is one reason I really want to work on making sure the battery compartment stays as cool as possible. And I think that is going to mean adding additional ventilation over and above the 3" hole they are supposed to cut in when we are at Dynamax.


We had really good luck with the Xantrex inverter in our 2018 Vista. The one time I thought the inverter had died it turned out that the battery cable to the inverter fuse had broken off. I think when the tech last changed the batteries they probably finished off the cable by bending it too much so the connector broke when it screwed onto the fuse.


I found a replacement cable at our Tractor Supply and that was an easy fix after we got back home.


So I'm hoping that the Freedom inverter will go at least 4 years without a major failure.

 

[burtbick]

So I have run across a problem with the FireFly controlling the Truma Combi. The FireFly Display seems to report the status to some extent but it is not controlling the Truma Combi.

The FireFly app seems to communicate wand control the Truma Combi; albeit it's a little clunky.

Test Conditions

1. Running on Inverter and Battery Power; no shore power.

2. I used the Truma Combi Display to put the unit into water heating mode ECO.

3. Water heated via the diesel burner as expected.

4. Attempted to use the FireFly Display to turn off the hot water

5. FireFly Firmware Versions: GUI Version 6.3 / Logic Controller Version 6.3 / G12 Firmware Version 4.0g / Config Revision 6.3


Event

When the FireFly Display was used to turn the hot water heater from ECO to OFF, the status light flashed green indicating it was communicating with the Truma Combi


Results

After waiting a few minuted I looked at the Truma Combi Display and it still said the water heater was at ECO. When I looked at the FireFly Display, the water heater went from off to HOT.

I then used the FireFly Display to move the water heater mode to OFF. Again the status LED flashed green and after a minute the water heater mode said HOT.

I checked the FireFly app and the water heater status also reported Hot but the Truma Combi Display still said ECO.

I then attempted to use the FireFly app to change the water heater status to OFF. After about 30 seconds or so, the Truma Combi Display reported the hot water heater as OFF.


Repeatability

I was able to repeat this issue again. It seems like there is a communication / control issue between the FireFly display and the Truma Combi.

Below are pictures and screen shots of the FireFly Display and FireFly App.

- The first picture is the FireFly when I turned the water heater to OFF.

- The second picture shows the Truma Combi Display indicating the water heater was set to ECO.

- The third picture shows the FireFly Display changing the Truma Combi Water Heater Status to HOT.

- The fourth picture is the FireFly when I turned the water heater to OFF after it came back with a HOT status.

- The fifth and sixth pictures shows the FireFly Display and app changing the Truma Combi Water Heater Status to HOT again.

- The seventh picture is after I used the FireFly app to turn the water heater back to OFF.



Brian Clemens...... What would be the best way to report this issue to Dynamax? Should I email Support with a link to this thread?

Just to add some input.

Sounds like a definite issue with yours. From the FireFly panel when we turn Combi on for hot water we first get ECO mode. if we press it again then it switches to HOT mode. And pressing again changes to OFF again. All those transitions are almost immediate.


So definitely something to check out.

 

[Judge64]

Battery Compartment Temperature and Ventilation

It looks like I will be installing a Powered Vent for the Battery Compartment.

I ran a test to day in modestly warm temperatures to measure the Battery Compartment temperature to simulate driving and using the A/C off the Inverter to keep the coach cool in warm ambient temperatures.

Here was my testing conditions, results and issue:

Test Conditions

1. Coach Parked in Sun: Ambient Temp 84F

2. No Shore Power

3. Battery Compartment Closed


Event

A/C Running off Inverter with coach temp set to 78F for about 3 hours with the Battery Compartment closed.


Results

The Battery Compartment hit about 110F after 3 hours of Inverter use and an ambient temp of 83F. The Battery Compartment was in the shade but the coach was generally in the sun.

I then pulled the coach in the garage and plugged into shore power. I left the compartment closed and after 30 minutes the temperature is now 124F with the batteries bulk charging.



Conclusion

When using the Inverter in hot climates, the Battery Compartment temperatures could reach or exceed the upper operating limits of the Inverter and / batteries. Places like Florida, Texas and Arizona in the summer will likely push the temps in the Battery Compartments to the upper operating limits.

I intend to purchase the parts that I posted recently in another thread for installing a Bilge Blower to vent the hot air from the Battery Compartment when driving or using the coach in climates with the temps over 90F. I will use a wireless switch with a remote so that I can easily turn the Bilge Blower on or off as needed from inside the coach. I'll post that modification once I can order the parts and install it.

 

[burtbick]

I wanted to thank you, Judge64, and all the others who are contributing to this discussion.



The shared experiences show we are not alone with some of the things we are seeing, and the collective observations can lead to solutions, or at least viable work arounds.


Your observations on the temps in the battery compartment are spot on. Very similar to what I was seeing, but in my case the ambient was nudging 100 degrees in FL and I had the compartment door open with the fan exhausting the hot air.


So when connected to shore power the compartment didn't reach much over 110 degrees.


It is difficult to quantify how much cooling there might be when driving. There is some air flow under the compartment, and of course along the side of the coach. But if the sun is shining on the driver's side I suspect that the heating effect would override any cooling effect of the air moving my the compartment door. I don't know that for a fact, but I know that when the sun hits the driver's side the surface, especially the compartment doors get hot enough to burn if you are not careful.

 

[Judge64]

So I have run across a problem with the FireFly controlling the Truma Combi. The FireFly Display seems to report the status to some extent but it is not controlling the Truma Combi.

The FireFly app seems to communicate wand control the Truma Combi; albeit it's a little clunky.

Test Conditions

1. Running on Inverter and Battery Power; no shore power.

2. I used the Truma Combi Display to put the unit into water heating mode ECO.

3. Water heated via the diesel burner as expected.

4. Attempted to use the FireFly Display to turn off the hot water

5. FireFly Firmware Versions: GUI Version 6.3 / Logic Controller Version 6.3 / G12 Firmware Version 4.0g / Config Revision 6.3


Event

When the FireFly Display was used to turn the hot water heater from ECO to OFF, the status light flashed green indicating it was communicating with the Truma Combi


Results

After waiting a few minuted I looked at the Truma Combi Display and it still said the water heater was at ECO. When I looked at the FireFly Display, the water heater went from off to HOT.

I then used the FireFly Display to move the water heater mode to OFF. Again the status LED flashed green and after a minute the water heater mode said HOT.

I checked the FireFly app and the water heater status also reported Hot but the Truma Combi Display still said ECO.

I then attempted to use the FireFly app to change the water heater status to OFF. After about 30 seconds or so, the Truma Combi Display reported the hot water heater as OFF.


Repeatability

I was able to repeat this issue again. It seems like there is a communication / control issue between the FireFly display and the Truma Combi.

Below are pictures and screen shots of the FireFly Display and FireFly App.

- The first picture is the FireFly when I turned the water heater to OFF.

- The second picture shows the Truma Combi Display indicating the water heater was set to ECO.

- The third picture shows the FireFly Display changing the Truma Combi Water Heater Status to HOT.

- The fourth picture is the FireFly when I turned the water heater to OFF after it came back with a HOT status.

- The fifth and sixth pictures shows the FireFly Display and app changing the Truma Combi Water Heater Status to HOT again.

- The seventh picture is after I used the FireFly app to turn the water heater back to OFF.



Brian Clemens...... What would be the best way to report this issue to Dynamax? Should I email Support with a link to this thread?

So I just did some more testing after Burt indicated his FireFly is controlling the Truma Combi properly.

My FireFly Display appears to report the Truma Combi status; although sometimes it is not entirely correct but it is defintely not controlling the Truma Combi properly.

What is a bit strange is the FireFly app does control the Truma Combi.

I tried to turn on the Truma Combi again from the FireFly Display. I put it in ECO and it would flash green for a bit and then report the water heater a OFF and it would change the heating method from ELC 1 where I had it set to Mix 1. I tried it twice and it was very repeatable.

I then tried to turn on the Truma Combi with the FireFly app and it did turn on the water heater properly.

It is very strange the app works but the Display does not. I will try powercycling the system to see if that does anything but I may be taking a trip to Dynamax eventually.

 

[Judge64]

I wanted to thank you, Judge64, and all the others who are contributing to this discussion.



The shared experiences show we are not alone with some of the things we are seeing, and the collective observations can lead to solutions, or at least viable work arounds.


Your observations on the temps in the battery compartment are spot on. Very similar to what I was seeing, but in my case the ambient was nudging 100 degrees in FL and I had the compartment door open with the fan exhausting the hot air.


So when connected to shore power the compartment didn't reach much over 110 degrees.


It is difficult to quantify how much cooling there might be when driving. There is some air flow under the compartment, and of course along the side of the coach. But if the sun is shining on the driver's side I suspect that the heating effect would override any cooling effect of the air moving my the compartment door. I don't know that for a fact, but I know that when the sun hits the driver's side the surface, especially the compartment doors get hot enough to burn if you are not careful.

After opening the Compartment door 30 minutes ago, the temperature is down to 102 and holding.

 

[burtbick]

So I just did some more testing after Burt indicated his FireFly is controlling the Truma Combi properly.

My FireFly Display appears to report the Truma Combi status; although sometimes it is not entirely correct but it is defintely not controlling the Truma Combi properly.

What is a bit strange is the FireFly app does control the Truma Combi.

I tried to turn on the Truma Combi again from the FireFly Display. I put it in ECO and it would flash green for a bit and then report the water heater a OFF and it would change the heating method from ELC 1 where I had it set to Mix 1. I tried it twice and it was very repeatable.

I then tried to turn on the Truma Combi with the FireFly app and it did turn on the water heater properly.

It is very strange the app works but the Display does not. I will try powercycling the system to see if that does anything but I may be taking a trip to Dynamax eventually.

Ah, I didn't catch before that you have a different version of FireFly software/firmware. I'm on 5.5. So maybe that is a difference. Might want to check with FireFly support on that one. I had mixed results when talking with them on tracking down the problem I had with the Grey tank reading. A couple of times I got a new support person that was still learning. But I would thing that FireFly might be able to help.