Leveling and stabilizing on soft soil

[Nhyrum]

We have a 2008 Forest River surveyor that we full time in. It's parked on some pretty soft soil, and I'm just not very familiar with best methods and practices of leveling and stabilizing these things. That being said, I do feel like I'm pretty handy, and mechanically inclined.

I know scissor jacks are worthless. They'll do ok leveling, as long as it doesn't have to lift anything and the load is static. They're "spherical chickens in a vacuum" type jack.

I've seen and heard about the saw horse style stabilizers that seem to be " the best", and they seem to be the easiest to DIY, which I'm a fan of, but most employ ratchet straps, which I despise.

Simple 4x4's cribbed up is a decent way to get it level, but the Jenga tower isn't very stable, and the four corners of the trailer sink at different rates, and the tower of 4x4's don't sink evenly.

The soft soil were parked on also means it doesn't hold level for long, which I guess when it comes to it, means I just need a bigger contact patch. Pouring a concrete slab, which would be ideal, is out of the question.

So I guess I'm looking for input and see what y'all have home brewed to help get ideas for what I want to make. I work at an aluminum fabrication shop, so I've got access to welders and a 30 foot scrap bin I can dig through.

 

[GolfingDave]

The soft soil were parked on also means it doesn't hold level for long, which I guess when it comes to it, means I just need a bigger contact patch.

Ever try plastic landscape pavers 12x12 or larger as a base. Light in weight and cover a large area.

I have five horse stall style rubber mats cut to 18x18 if I ever get to a site that requires padding on their sites. Pretty dense. Maybe these on top of them or the pavers?

I use these all the time and would fit on top of the mats. Never had them sink but not really in soft areas yet, just muddy sometimes.



Only thing though, if you are sinking I would think the weight of the camper should be on the tires and the front jack. The four corner jacks are just for stability. You mentioned "I know scissor jacks are worthless. They'll do ok leveling, as long as it doesn't have to lift anything and the load is static.", those corner jacks are not for leveling. Unless you do have a leveling system on this?

 

[Oaklevel]

As mentioned above do NOT !!!! level with your corner stabilizers.....

I would get 2 x 12s long enough for both wheels to be on to level side to side. And a base of 2 x 12s for the corners for under the stabilizers. You can stack the 2 x 12s.

JT strong arms attached to the corner stabilizers also help for stabilizing.

Having said that you may need to relevel after time. The bigger contact point the better for soft soils.

It works for us with sandy soil while we are at the beach.

 

[cbvp]

leveling

As mentioned above do NOT !!!! level with your corner stabilizers.....

I would get 2 x 12s long enough for both wheels to be on to level side to side. And a base of 2 x 12s for the corners for under the stabilizers. You can stack the 2 x 12s.

JT strong arms attached to the corner stabilizers also help for stabilizing.

Having said that you may need to relevel after time. The bigger contact point the better for soft soils.

It works for us with sandy soil while we are at the beach.

Nothing more to say.

Great Advice!


C.B.

 

[Chuck_S]

Trailers are easily leveled side to side by the suspension -- stuff under the tires. Fore and aft is as simple as the tongue jack and a suitable pad under it as appropriate. If this stuff is sinking over time stack more stuff on top of what's there or find a better spot than the marsh you seem to be in.

-- Chuck

 

[aircommuter]

I have used 1-1/8” plywood for soft areas, not for RV but it could be of course. Cut them 16”x16” and they give about 80% more surface area than 12x12 plus they won’t crack. Just another option.

 

[Nhyrum]

I guess I have been going about leveling wrong. I've been trying to level the four corners(not with the scissor stabilizing jacks).

I've got some of that plastic lumber, 2x10 under the tires to keep them from sinking in, but they're still pretty flimsy. I think I'll have much better luck leveling side to side with the axles, then front to rear with the tongue jack.

I might sandwich a piece of fiberglass grating that's an inch and a half thick in-between the plastic "lumber" to give it since stiffness. It would be pretty easy to make a 2'x2' or 3'x3' pad for the tongue and something about a foot wide and long enough for both axles.

 

[Chuck_S]

The suspension and tongue jack are designed to support the full weight of the trailer. Leveling via the corners can possibly twist the trailer frame especially in the severe conditions you're describing. Not sure the limits of the "auto leveling jacks" or just generic "leveling jacks." We all know stabilizers shouldn't be used for this.

Motorhomes are built to different standards and some specialized jacks can lift the wheels off the pavement without frame damage. Tread lightly until you sure you're not damaging the trailer.

-- Chuck

 

[Nhyrum]

The suspension and tongue jack are designed to support the full weight of the trailer. Leveling via the corners can possibly twist the trailer frame especially in the severe conditions you're describing. Not sure the limits of the "auto leveling jacks" or just generic "leveling jacks." We all know stabilizers shouldn't be used for this.

Motorhomes are built to different standards and some specialized jacks can lift the wheels off the pavement without frame damage. Tread lightly until you sure you're not damaging the trailer.

-- Chuck

I guess it does make sense that leveling from the corners could bend things.

The trailer doesn't have any self leveling jacks or anything, just the four stabilizer jacks, that I don't think stabilize very well, but it appears most likely operator error, but I know the automotive ones are absolutely worthless. They can't hold hardly any weight or movement. I did use the tongue jack to level front and rear, but after the trailer was parked I didn't really have a way to level the axle. I do have the stabilizer jacks under the corners, with just a bit of weight on them to just add more surface contact area and spread the weight more, but it's still pretty unsteady.

Do you think I'd get a truer "level" throwing a spirit level on the floor or on the frame and axle? I know the floor isn't very flat. I just didn't want to level off one or the other and have the plumbing be out of plumb and not drain or vent properly. I mean I doubt there would be more than a quarter inch per foot difference between the frame and floor though

 

[Chuck_S]

I'll start out by stating I hate the term stabilizer jacks as it leads some folks to believe you can actually jack up something or level the trailer with them. Stabilizers don't do much if you're jumping around inside the trailer -- you're likely getting all you can get.

You want the trailer to be level and that's only important if you intend to sleep in it. The adage that "If it's level enough to sleep in it's level enough." is true. This goes for plumbing, absorption refrigerators, literally everything. Don't chase 1/4" increments. If you're not sleeping in it "level" has no real meaning or value. Just parked? Put it on as level ground as you can find.

Exactly level the trailer on solid ground one (1) time and then screw little spirit levels on the side and front so you can quickly determine if you're out of level without dragging that 4' carpenter's level out every time.

-- Chuck

 

[Nhyrum]

I'll start out by stating I hate the term stabilizer jacks as it leads some folks to believe you can actually jack up something or level the trailer with them. Stabilizers don't do much if you're jumping around inside the trailer -- you're likely getting all you can get.

You want the trailer to be level and that's only important if you intend to sleep in it. The adage that "If it's level enough to sleep in it's level enough." is true. This goes for plumbing, absorption refrigerators, literally everything. Don't chase 1/4" increments. If you're not sleeping in it "level" has no real meaning or value. Just parked? Put it on as level ground as you can find.

Exactly level the trailer on solid ground one (1) time and then screw little spirit levels on the side and front so you can quickly determine if you're out of level without dragging that 4' carpenter's level out every time.

-- Chuck

I guess I might be chasing the rabbit further down the hole than I need. I guess especially since it won't hold level, there's no sense getting a perfect level. Good 'nuff is good enough.

I also might be expecting a rock sturdy trailer, and I guess that's not fair. I don't think we're jumping around at all, but I can feel it wiggle while my wife walks around

 

[Chuck_S]

A little wiggle is normal and you'll soon not notice it. Will still be there though just part of the background. Play it by feel. Stabilizer down until it touches the ground (or pad if the ground is soft and you can't find a better place to park) +1 turn hasn't harmed my Roo in 20 years. Something to spread the weight on the tires is vital otherwise the trailer will soon by only suspended by the stabilizers. Permanent sites need consideration and possible construction to be suitable.

-- Chuck

 

[Outbackwack]

I've found that when in soft soil the rig will continue to shift after leveled just from walking in/out/around unless the tires are fully supported on a stable material.

 

[jimmoore13]

There's a lot here in the form of responses. I didn't read all of them...responding only to the OP.

I use Anderesen style levelers. I use a 12" x 24" 3/4" piece of exterior grade plywood under each leveler. On top of the plywood, I add a chunk of heavy duty truck mudflap to resist skidding. This works extremely well. It protects the plastic levelers from rocks in the soil and it prevents sinking.

Under the stab jacks, which are NOT leveling jacks, I use Camco stab jack pads. Nothing special about these over other brands, but this is what I use. The fundamental point is that the stab jacks should NOT be carrying a significant load, so the pads won't sink.

On the tongue, I use a drop leg with a pad and a Camco wheel dock to support the tongue jack. The wheel dock is about 12" or more in diameter, so it does not sink, and the cup holds the drop leg. The drain hole in the wheel dock can receive a tent spike to hold it in place on a side hill. Remove the little plastic thingy on the tent spike. I'm NOT fond of the practice of using the bare jack tube on top of a 6" x 6" wood block that many use. This leaves the block open to rolling or sliding and the rig dropping off the block. I know many do it. I won't.

I gather your Surveyor has two axles. I like X-chocks for wheel chocks. The beauty of X-chocks is that they work on the lifted side of your rig, where conventional wheel chocks have no purchase on the ground or tires. It's smart to also use conventional wheel chocks on the uphill side (tires on the ground) as belt & suspenders insurance, because, like anything, X-chocks are not perfect. The suspension on your rig can flex and they can release, especially if the tongue jack slides downhill.

The most important thing to remember is that stab jacks are not leveling jacks. They have virtually no for-and-aft or side-to-side rigidity. You absolutely MUST level your rig side-to-side using Andersen levelers or stacks of blocks...plastic or wood.

NEXT. VERY IMPORTANT: Drop the REAR DOWNHILL stab jack first to further load the tongue jack. If you drop a front tongue jack first, you can unload the tongue jack, and the rig can spin and roll downhill. Ask me how I know.

Order for stab jacks.
Downhill rear fairly tight...maybe an inch of lift.
Uphill rear fairly tight...maybe an inch of lift. Both apply more pressure on the tongue jack.
Uphill front just snug
Downhill front just snug
Do not ever unload the tongue jack. Disassemble in reverse order when breaking camp.

 

[Denny54]

Yep, 2 x 10 or 12 boards.
Sometimes camp on Sandy sites. Works real good.

 

[rlocicero]

We have that problem at Brennan Beach. Our site is all sand and it’s tough to keep it level a piece of two by 12s in half and I drive up onto them that usually does the trick

 

[Kickhead70]

Force vs pressure

Remember that pressure is force/area. Typical conservative soil “strength” is about 2000 lbs/sf. Soft or saturated soils can be as low as 500 lbs/sf. Sand is a bit of a different animal in that it has good strength, but the uniform particle size makes it shove easily, kind of like walking in pea gravel. Some soils will develop a lot of strength with a little compression at the surface. With that being said, spreading the force to lower the pressure is what you need. Let’s say you use 1000lbs /sf soil pressure, that should be quite conservative and the math is easy. Trailer weight/#of wheels/1000 = sf of surface needed at each wheel. Hope this helps!

 

[Chuck_S]

Thanks for the information. Good to know 18" square boards (2.25sf) should handle 1,125lbs each or 4,500lbs of axle dual weight on practically any surface. Bumping the size up to 24" square should support 8,000 pounds almost everywhere. Either size is "carryable."

-- Chuck

 

[Rob0702]

Leveling On Soft Soil

Member "Oaklevel" nailed it. What he suggested is the best way to level on soft soil. The more surface area on the ground under your stabilizers, the less sinking into the soil you will experience.

 

[Aussieguy]

we made cribbing for a 400ton crane once
now surface area for that ..... was ridiculous

needed a separate crane to lift and move them