Lithium Upgrade Questions

[TheDantee]

Looking to add some solar panels to my 2023 Sunseeker 2350 LE and upgrade the other systems to support Lithium Batteries. I’m curious in others Sunseeker and Forester Lithium upgrades. Where have you placed your inverters and charge controllers? Would love to see lots of pictures.

This is my first RV, however I have built my own solar setup in a previous custom van conversion I did so I have some experience.

I was planning to replace the batteries under the step with some BattleBorns, from there I’m not really sure where to put things. Ideally I’d like to replace things in the same spot they exist to have the least amount of rewiring. I’ve got the solar prep package with a Waaree solar panel on the roof. I’ve got the BIM 160 from Precision Circuits near the front door and a basic PWM (I assume) charge controllers.

I assume I am replacing the BIM with something like a Victron Orion XS, and the Charge controllers with a Victron SmartSolar MPPT. I’d ideally like to hide the wires and was curious on similar setups. Where is the inverter? Under the bed near the fuse box I assume? Would a Victron Multiplus fit there?

Thanks and am curious to see all your setups!

 

[bikendan]

Moved thread from the Modifications and Updates section to the Motorhome section's Forester and Sunseeker sub-forum since the OP is asking for specific feedback from other Sunseeker owners.

 

[laprez]

Looking to add some solar panels to my 2023 Sunseeker 2350 LE and upgrade the other systems to support Lithium Batteries. I’m curious in others Sunseeker and Forester Lithium upgrades. Where have you placed your inverters and charge controllers? Would love to see lots of pictures.

This is my first RV, however I have built my own solar setup in a previous custom van conversion I did so I have some experience.

I was planning to replace the batteries under the step with some BattleBorns, from there I’m not really sure where to put things. Ideally I’d like to replace things in the same spot they exist to have the least amount of rewiring. I’ve got the solar prep package with a Waaree solar panel on the roof. I’ve got the BIM 160 from Precision Circuits near the front door and a basic PWM (I assume) charge controllers.

I assume I am replacing the BIM with something like a Victron Orion XS, and the Charge controllers with a Victron SmartSolar MPPT. I’d ideally like to hide the wires and was curious on similar setups. Where is the inverter? Under the bed near the fuse box I assume? Would a Victron Multiplus fit there?

Thanks and am curious to see all your setups!

I doubt you have an inverter. Most converters seem to be around the bed. You should have a Li switch. I used 2 Dr Prepares - cheaper than the Battleborns by quite a lot. Their case is on the large size, so, while they did fit, it was a bear getting them in. I just bought a LI BIM and a Victron dual battery charger, which only came in PWM. So using the Orion might be better. You can do a search on the topic and probably find pics. My original charger was behind a panel underneath the fridge, it was not easy to get to.

 

[TitanMike]

Looking to add some solar panels to my 2023 Sunseeker 2350 LE and upgrade the other systems to support Lithium Batteries. I’m curious in others Sunseeker and Forester Lithium upgrades. Where have you placed your inverters and charge controllers? Would love to see lots of pictures.

This is my first RV, however I have built my own solar setup in a previous custom van conversion I did so I have some experience.

I was planning to replace the batteries under the step with some BattleBorns, from there I’m not really sure where to put things. Ideally I’d like to replace things in the same spot they exist to have the least amount of rewiring. I’ve got the solar prep package with a Waaree solar panel on the roof. I’ve got the BIM 160 from Precision Circuits near the front door and a basic PWM (I assume) charge controllers.

I assume I am replacing the BIM with something like a Victron Orion XS, and the Charge controllers with a Victron SmartSolar MPPT. I’d ideally like to hide the wires and was curious on similar setups. Where is the inverter? Under the bed near the fuse box I assume? Would a Victron Multiplus fit there?

Thanks and am curious to see all your setups!

What is your budget?

Since you mentioned a Victron Multiplus I am assuming you aren't looking to the cheapest upgrade but rather the best.

You might start by measuring the compartment where the batteries are (length, width, and height) then compare with dimensions of the Battleborn GC-3 12V 270 battery. If it fits you'll have 70 amp hours more available than just installing a couple of cheaper LiFePo4 batteries. It also comes in a heated version with external control via a remote switch.

Yes, it's expensive but I was able to buy mine on an Amazon sale and saved 20%. Using the existing space if possible means you don't loose space elsewhere.

As for whether the Multiplus will fit where you suggest check the dimensions on Victron's site or that of any seller.

Also, if the GC-3 won't fit in the current battery location it can be mounted right next to the Multiplus making for very short cable runs. The GC-3 can be mounted on it's side, end, or bottom, with built in mounting brackets that can be re-configured as needed.

When I installed mine upright (With Lettering on side upright and visible) it has a footprint just over one square foot. Uses less floor space than two 100ah grp 27 sized batteries and makes use of previously wasted vertical space.

Something to consider although I expect there will be a lot of noise like "TOO EXPENSIVE" "Cheaper is better" etc.

 

[TheDantee]

What is your budget?

Since you mentioned a Victron Multiplus I am assuming you aren't looking to the cheapest upgrade but rather the best.

You might start by measuring the compartment where the batteries are (length, width, and height) then compare with dimensions of the Battleborn GC-3 12V 270 battery. If it fits you'll have 70 amp hours more available than just installing a couple of cheaper LiFePo4 batteries. It also comes in a heated version with external control via a remote switch.

Yes, it's expensive but I was able to buy mine on an Amazon sale and saved 20%. Using the existing space if possible means you don't loose space elsewhere.

As for whether the Multiplus will fit where you suggest check the dimensions on Victron's site or that of any seller.

Also, if the GC-3 won't fit in the current battery location it can be mounted right next to the Multiplus making for very short cable runs. The GC-3 can be mounted on it's side, end, or bottom, with built in mounting brackets that can be re-configured as needed.

When I installed mine upright (With Lettering on side upright and visible) it has a footprint just over one square foot. Uses less floor space than two 100ah grp 27 sized batteries and makes use of previously wasted vertical space.

Something to consider although I expect there will be a lot of noise like "TOO EXPENSIVE" "Cheaper is better" etc.

Thanks I’ll look into that battery. I am looking for a very high end long lasting setup with preferably minimal modifications.

 

[TitanMike]

Thanks I’ll look into that battery. I am looking for a very high end long lasting setup with preferably minimal modifications.

Another benefit to the GC-3 to go along with it's small footprint is no need to have any extra battery connector cables as are necessary with multiple batteries needed to obtain the same capacity. Also, no need to figure out which ends to attach Pos and Neg cables. There are only two terminals and each has three bolt-through holes, essentially providing their own "bus bar". Terminals are covered fully with molded plastic covers secured to the case by a machine screw into a molded in threaded metal sleeve.

Bolt-though terminals are far superior to the "bolt-in" types as connections can be far tighter with no risk of thread stripping. Should one get to exuberant and break the stainless steel bolt provided it's just a matter of pushing the remaining piece from the hole and replacing it with the a spare shipped with the battery (I got two each, bolt, nut, flat washer, and lock washer)

 

[TheDantee]

Another benefit to the GC-3 to go along with it's small footprint is no need to have any extra battery connector cables as are necessary with multiple batteries needed to obtain the same capacity. Also, no need to figure out which ends to attach Pos and Neg cables. There are only two terminals and each has three bolt-through holes, essentially providing their own "bus bar". Terminals are covered fully with molded plastic covers secured to the case by a machine screw into a molded in threaded metal sleeve.

Bolt-though terminals are far superior to the "bolt-in" types as connections can be far tighter with no risk of thread stripping. Should one get to exuberant and break the stainless steel bolt provided it's just a matter of pushing the remaining piece from the hole and replacing it with the a spare shipped with the battery (I got two each, bolt, nut, flat washer, and lock washer)

I’m not to worried about the battery setup itself I’ve used BattleBorns in my Sprinter build. I’m more curious in where to place the other components of the electrical system. I haven’t had much time to take things apart in my sunseeker to figure out where to place things so I was curious on others setups. Perhaps you would like to share your setup with pics? I’d appreciate it.

 

[TheDantee]

@TitanMike the BattleBorn 270 doesn’t fit as it’s too tall unfortunately. However my original idea of dual BattleBorn 100AHs will fit. For those with a Sunseeker 2350LE reading this the dimensions of the battery box inside are 28” long by 10” wide by 10” high and the opening for the box itself is 25.5” long by 7.1 inches wide.

I was also able to find the stock PWM Solar Charge Controller. It is underneath the bottom cabinet under the sink. The connections all look pretty standard and should be easy enough to replace with a Victron SmartSolar Controller. I plan to also replace the stock Solar display with a Victron MPPT readout and a Victron BMV-712.

@laprez is also correct there is no inverter in this model. None of the 120v outlets work without being hooked up to a power source. I am now curious if I do hookup a Victron Multiplus how to wire it to all the current outlets. I did find this weird bus bar beside the converter underneath the bed, maybe this is for all the outlets, I’m not to sure yet. Does anyone have any ideas on this?

My converter says it supports Lithium as well. It is a Progressive Dynamics PD4060K. I am assuming this is for charging and power the 12v items from being plugged in.

The only questions I have left before I start modifying things are, how to setup the inverter to the current outlets and, if I should use the Progressive Dynamics Li BIM-225 or replace that setup with a Victron Orion XS (DC to DC Charger) which I think makes the conversion more complex but may have some pros?

 

[Aussieguy]

before deciding on a DC-DC or a Li-BIM
check what alternator you got


If the alternator was upgraded and you always do highway (no stop/start driving)
you may not need any upgrade...

do check the voltage your alternator puts out
if it is 13.8 to 14.2 output
battery will re-charge faster closer to the 14.2 range

If you want the fastest charging.. find a dc-dc that boosts the voltage to over 14
I don't think the LI-Bim can increase the voltage like a dc-dc can.


make sure your wire sizing can handle the charging current
Li-Bim is simply a relay/solenoid that closes and allows max current to flow
(the actual current depends on wire sizing) it then uses a timer sequence of around 20 minutes ON , then 20 minutes OFF lets the alternator have a bit of time to relax

in theory you can get a lot of charging current out of the LI-BIM
where as the DC-DC is more controlled output, select a size 20, 30 or 40 amp that the dc-dc will allow to pass through more controlled constant current

you can also add a manual override switch... if conditions are that you are using a LOT of battery current on a hot day... turn off the dc-dc or BIM... then as conditions improve turn it back on... (stop start traffic , flowing freely)

only costs a couple $$ to make it much more customizable to your driving area and style.

 

[TheDantee]

before deciding on a DC-DC or a Li-BIM
check what alternator you got


If the alternator was upgraded and you always do highway (no stop/start driving)
you may not need any upgrade...

do check the voltage your alternator puts out
if it is 13.8 to 14.2 output
battery will re-charge faster closer to the 14.2 range

If you want the fastest charging.. find a dc-dc that boosts the voltage to over 14
I don't think the LI-Bim can increase the voltage like a dc-dc can.


make sure your wire sizing can handle the charging current
Li-Bim is simply a relay/solenoid that closes and allows max current to flow
(the actual current depends on wire sizing) it then uses a timer sequence of around 20 minutes ON , then 20 minutes OFF lets the alternator have a bit of time to relax

in theory you can get a lot of charging current out of the LI-BIM
where as the DC-DC is more controlled output, select a size 20, 30 or 40 amp that the dc-dc will allow to pass through more controlled constant current

you can also add a manual override switch... if conditions are that you are using a LOT of battery current on a hot day... turn off the dc-dc or BIM... then as conditions improve turn it back on... (stop start traffic , flowing freely)

only costs a couple $$ to make it much more customizable to your driving area and style.

Will for sure be more stop and go than highway driving. I would imagine the alternator is stock I will have to check the voltage that’s sent to the batteries. How much rewiring is needed to switch from the BIM?

 

[Aussieguy]

how hard and how much wires will depend on the chassis and house battery location

if close together or far apart?

you will have to plan it out
----------------------------------------------------
if it was my RV...
I would upgrade the solar first get as many panels as possible and let them take care of the house side

then IF you still need to combine house and starter (alternator) after that you can make a choice then

reasoning...
shove as much solar into the batteries as possible then look at making up the shortfall
small generator , alternator, ground panels or mooch dock
solar will work while... driving at 60mph, stopped at rest area or sight seeing and when at the campground.

or see if you can you use LESS power...
make coffee on the propane stove instead of a power hungry Kurig ...

hire 3 peoples to hold the wife down for a BUZZZ cut .... hair dryer is now no longer needed
(Divorce lawyer may offset any savings.... discuss with wife before buying hair clippers)

 

[TitanMike]

I’m not to worried about the battery setup itself I’ve used BattleBorns in my Sprinter build. I’m more curious in where to place the other components of the electrical system. I haven’t had much time to take things apart in my sunseeker to figure out where to place things so I was curious on others setups. Perhaps you would like to share your setup with pics? I’d appreciate it.

While not in a Sunseeker my installation in a Microlite 25BDS might give you a few ideas.

Top to bottom: Curb side front compartment

2nd: Front wall of compartment with Orion DC-DC charger, Lynx Distributor (acts as buss bar and fuse box using mega fuses with blown fuse indicator.

3rd; location of 270ah GC-3 under jack knife couch.

4th; top view of battery location below couch.

5th; view o compartment rear showing Phoenix 12/50 converter/ charger (Bluetooth controlled and networked with other Victron Devices), Renogy 2Kw TSW Inverter, and MPPT controller for rooftop Solar (controller in compartment front view is for portable panels fed through port in outside compartment view.

Also, auxiliary fuse panel to right of converter/charger holds fuses for tongue jack, awning, slide, etc.the ones the factory just used a hidden inline fuseholder for. It also has indicator lites if fuse blows.

 

[TitanMike]

hire 3 peoples to hold the wife down for a BUZZZ cut .... hair dryer is now no longer needed
(Divorce lawyer may offset any savings.... discuss with wife before buying hair clippers)

Do this and she may have an idea about a different set of "clippers". Some that look like this:

 

[TheDantee]

While not in a Sunseeker my installation in a Microlite 25BDS might give you a few ideas.

Top to bottom: Curb side front compartment

2nd: Front wall of compartment with Orion DC-DC charger, Lynx Distributor (acts as buss bar and fuse box using mega fuses with blown fuse indicator.

3rd; location of 270ah GC-3 under jack knife couch.

4th; top view of battery location below couch.

5th; view o compartment rear showing Phoenix 12/50 converter/ charger (Bluetooth controlled and networked with other Victron Devices), Renogy 2Kw TSW Inverter, and MPPT controller for rooftop Solar (controller in compartment front view is for portable panels fed through port in outside compartment view.

Also, auxiliary fuse panel to right of converter/charger holds fuses for tongue jack, awning, slide, etc.the ones the factory just used a hidden inline fuseholder for. It also has indicator lites if fuse blows.

Wow nice setup! I was considering use one of the storage cubby’s for the whole solar setup but I think it will be easier to place things where they are currently and try to reuse the wiring that’s already there.

 

[TheDantee]

how hard and how much wires will depend on the chassis and house battery location

if close together or far apart?

you will have to plan it out
----------------------------------------------------
if it was my RV...
I would upgrade the solar first get as many panels as possible and let them take care of the house side

then IF you still need to combine house and starter (alternator) after that you can make a choice then

reasoning...
shove as much solar into the batteries as possible then look at making up the shortfall
small generator , alternator, ground panels or mooch dock
solar will work while... driving at 60mph, stopped at rest area or sight seeing and when at the campground.

or see if you can you use LESS power...
make coffee on the propane stove instead of a power hungry Kurig ...

hire 3 peoples to hold the wife down for a BUZZZ cut .... hair dryer is now no longer needed
(Divorce lawyer may offset any savings.... discuss with wife before buying hair clippers)

I actually wanted to switch to an induction cooktop if possible later on… haha, I do plan on adding a good amount of solar, my worry is the stock 10 AWG wire won’t handle the load though. Are there any wiring diagrams out there to find where it’s run if I wanted to replace it?

I’ll probably buy the Li BIM 225 for the time being and I can switch to a DC-DC Charger later if needed.

I also found my transfer relay it’s a progressive dynamics 5100 series. I assume that’s everything I need now for wiring the inverter to use the current installed outlets.

 

[TitanMike]

Wow nice setup! I was considering use one of the storage cubby’s for the whole solar setup but I think it will be easier to place things where they are currently and try to reuse the wiring that’s already there.

Certainly easier as long as wire sizes are best for any upgrading you might be doing.

For this "build" the hardest part was running some rain tite/liquid tite conduit from power distribution panel converter circuit breaker to compartment. Had to fish it through the underbelly. Had to enlist my Son to help with it which added a difficulty factor

 

[Aussieguy]

Dometic Australia sells pre-mounted componets on different sized boards

They should do it here too

For Ideas on what is possible to do. look here https://enerdrive.com.au/product-category/products/prewired-board-power-systems/

Don't order any of these just look at how it can be

Order IF .... you got 240v single phase Australian / European wiring for any INverter power

Prices are in AUSSIE $$ which is last I looked 65c so if you wanted something without the inverter you possibly could order it
12v stuff is same as USA

shipping might be a problem?


AGAIN their inverters are 240v single wire AU/EU wiring NOT suitable for USA
You been warned!

 

[Aussieguy]

PS.... seen some of the above boards behind the fridge...
they add a BIG access hatch/door on the outside so you can get to the board and to remove it and get at the rear of the fridge too

 

[TheDantee]

Very cool, I am familiar with Victron and like their software and products so I prefer using it. The rewiring sucks especially for the inverter stuff and possibly having to rewire the solar wires from the ceiling.

 

[TheDantee]

12V Upgrade Complete
I have finished installing the 2 Battleborn 100Ah Heated batteries as well as the Victron SmartSolar controller and the BMV-712 and MPPT Monitors. I also attached a temperature sensor from the BMV-712 to the first battery wired in parallel to see the rough temperature of them.

I upgraded the wires connecting the 2 batteries from the 2 AWG to 4/0 AWG as well as the 10 AWG from the solar charge controller with 6 AWG. I drilled a 2 inch hole to run the wires back into the cab however I messed up on my initial hole from the cab to the outside. I only made that hole 1 inch so I ended up with 3 1 inch holes from the inside of the cab to outside underneath. I would strongly recommend doing what @TitanMike did and using one of the storage spaces for storing all your upgrades. I ended up using the stock area under the bottom cabinet under the sink and it’s a mess… I held down the charge controller with double sided tape instead of screws we’ll see if it holds.

I went with a Victron SmartSolar 250/60. It’s overkill for sure but I wanted the higher voltage support. Instead of rewiring the wires from the panels down to the charge controller with 6 AWG I’m just going to use the stock 10 AWG wires. These should handle 30A which I have limited my charge controller to and I will wire all my future panels in series to add voltage instead of amperage. What panels are you guys using or recommend?

I also ran in 2 4/0 AWG wires into the cab 1 positive and 1 negative for my future inverter install. I’m undecided if I want to get a Victron Lynx and connect everything together before going to the inverter or just run the wires to the inverter. The length of those wires is minimal anyways coming into the cab so I will have to attach a fuse or a bus bar and then use another 4/0 wire to the inverter for both wires. I also attached the positive 4/0 to a hard switch for the inverter this will likely remain on at all times when the inverter is installed as I plan to install a Victron Digital Multi Control Panel where the old solar controller readout was (where the rectangle hole is).

I’m also considering doing a 50A upgrade and curious what that would entail. I’ve seen a few other threads here and may attempt that to. But the inverter and extra solar is most important to me for future upgrades.

Almost forgot I upgraded my BIM-160 to the BIM-225 that supports Lithium. With the old charge controller it supported charging the start battery to so I guess I’ve lost that functionality now without adding a DC to DC charger is that correct? I terminated the wires and left them in the box.

I’ve attached some before and after images for all of you. I tried to upload images last time and it didn’t work, hopefully this time it does.