New to us 2021 Rockwood Roo 23ikss

[Danb203]

Hi all, New member, new RV'ing family here. We don't know much but we're figuring stuff out in our driveway. We decided to de-winterize the trailer today and get some water flowing. We filled the fresh water tank with a half cup bleach and maybe 30 gallons of hose water. Turned the pump on, valves opwn around the hot water tank and let it rip. No water, just hissing.

As a test we hooked up to city water and everything worked great. I feel like I'm missing a valve somewhere. Any ideas? Thanks!

 

[RhumbleFish]

Hey, friend, and welcome! Great rig, the 23ikss was our choice right up till they discontinued it (ended up in a 235s and are happy as clams).

I’ll bet you one American dollar that the antifreeze valve is still flipped. It’s a 90* throw on a T fitting behind the antifreeze inlet…. likely pointing at the filler inlet. Turn it the full 90* so that it points at the other branch of the T, and you’ll be able to pull from your fresh tank.

hope this helps! I could be - and regularly am - wrong.

 

[Danb203]

Hi thanks for the reply! I was back there flipping levers and trying different combinations, totally guessing because there are no labels, just trying to be logical. Here's what I have currently, picture below. I can tell the pump is working because the hw heater and faucets have pressure. I still don't smell any bleach from the faucets.l though Oddly enough when I had the pump on, that clear tank was all antifreeze and didn't change color. (city water cleaned it out). For whatever reason it won't pull from the fw tank I need the secret valve or maybe I'm not being patient? I can't tell.

 

[Chuck_S]

When the handle of a ball valve is parallel to the valve or pipe, it's open The one dead center in the photo, right after the pump outlet, looks closed.

-- Chuck

 

[Danb203]

Hi Chuck, thanks. That valve can swing down 90 degrees, no other option. The pipe coming out of the top goes to what is assume is the antifreeze full. I don't know what makes sense, I'll try it again.

 

[RhumbleFish]

so, Chuck is sort of right… on 90° valves, the handle position usually indicates direction of flow.

For instance, right now, it looks like your hot water heater is bypassed. See how two valves over by the back of the water heater are parallel to the main line? That shows cold water coming along the blue pipe going straight through the valve (not turning 90° and going into the hot water heater) continuing back along the loop and then going through the other valve (which is also not turned 90°), and then heading out to the rest of the coach through the red line…

If you want water to go into your hot water heater, turn the two valves such that they point at the hot water heater. The way they are currently is set up for winterization mode.

The valve in the very middle of the photo looks like your source valve… It’s a 90° throw valve, making a T junction. One leg of the T runs TO the pump. Of the other two legs, (I will bet that) one runs FROM the freshwater tank, and the other runs FROM the antifreeze hose inlet on the outside of your trailer. What’s your describing says that the pump is trying to draw cap from the antifreeze hose inlet. Rotate that valve 90° and I’ll bet you’ll be drawing from your tank…

 

[RhumbleFish]

Hi Chuck, thanks. That valve can swing down 90 degrees, no other option. The pipe coming out of the top goes to what is assume is the antifreeze full. I don't know what makes sense, I'll try it again.

OK, this is a little more confusing. Can you actually trace the hose that comes out of that particular valve? It’s likely that you will not be able to see the connection between that T junction and the freshwater tank, but you should be able to see where the antifreeze inlet is. That’s the one that you do not want to draw from (and it seems like you are having problems with this. It very well might be that your water pump won’t take a prime. Let’s get our valves double checked and then we can work on priming your pump.

 

[Danb203]

Here's what we got. From what I can tell the tube on the left goes down under the flooring and I lose it. The other coming off of the t fitting shows up under the bathroom sink. Another tube meets up with that as well. What's odd today is the kitchen sing doesn't have the pressure releasted noise like the bathroom sink does.

Edit: bathroom sink tubes meet up

 

[Chuck_S]

New or New-to-You camper? Still looking for symptoms.

Can you hear the pump running? It won't (shouldn't) run if there is pressure in the system.

Turn city water Off at the source and open a faucet to depressurize the system. You should get no water flowing after pressure is released. Keeping city water disconnected switch the bump On. If no water is getting to the pump it will run "forever" since it can't pressurize the system.

-- Chuck

 

[Danb203]

Sorry had to run out for a kids lacrosse game. OK so I can always hear the pump running when I turn the switch on. It has never shut off on its own. It seems like the system is pressurizing when the faucets are closed, then when I open on it let's out a big gush of air.


This is a 2021 used but new to us came home winterized from the dealer.

 

[Danb203]

Quick update. I think it has to be on the inlet side of the pump. The fitting seemed a little loose, I held it together really tight and it started circulating water, heard the hw tank fill. I get a weak stream of water in the indoor and outdoor shower, bathroom faucets. But barely anything in the kitchen.

 

[RhumbleFish]

Quick update. I think it has to be on the inlet side of the pump. The fitting seemed a little loose, I held it together really tight and it started circulating water, heard the hw tank fill. I get a weak stream of water in the indoor and outdoor shower, bathroom faucets. But barely anything in the kitchen.

Well, there's a mistake that we all made - assuming that your plumbing system was up to snuff/properly fit and attached. If the pump inlet fitting is admitting air, it may not (and apparently doesn't) have the draw to pull from the fresh tank... instead it's pulling air in and compressing the lines.

Consider taking the inlet hose end off your pump and inspect the housing. The vertical run after the plastic elbow looks like it could be putting some torque on the plastic pump inlet, and MAY have cracked the inlet side. If the pump inlet is fine, also look for cracks in the elbow, then re-install with proper hose clamps tightened appropriately to ensure a solid conneciton.

In the top shot , I'm a little confused by the plumbing setup. Ignore the hot water heater entirely, let's focus on the T valve. It LOOKS like the line going vertically up from the T is running to the back water panel, which I will assume is your antifreeze inlet. Can you confirm this?

So, if this is the inlet side of the pump, then the line that goes out to the left of the T valve (the one that is immediately split) is your fresh tank supply and - potentially - a return from the bathroom shower (aka the showermiser fresh water recovery system). Can you confirm that your 23ikss has a showermiser (tiny little silver lever) in your shower by the fixture controls, and that it is *closed*? If it's open and your shower head valves are open (which seems strange), it could be admitting air to the system.

The second pic is a vaccum breaker mounted high up under the sink, nothing to worry about there.

I think we're on our way here and you're really close to a solid solution. The fact that your system is holding air pressure after the pump is a good sign.

 

[Danb203]

Hi, It has to be the inlet for the antifreeze, I see no other way of vacuuming fluid into the system. That hose that goes straight up attaches to the back panel but is not labeled. The other two ports are labeled city water and tank flush [then a couple random coax ports].

I tried priming the pump yesterday, pulled some stuff apart and got suction at the pump inlet port, but no suction at the intake port on the outside panel. I removed the bottom of the pump and made sure everything was moving and there was no debris or seals missing/torn. What I found was that elbow fitting doesn't screw in far enough on the pump inlet port so the elbow has a little bit of play.

Also yes to confirm this model does have the showermeiser, not sure if its from the factor or aftermarket but it's there. I'm pretty sure its closed too, while I was getting a little water coming out, I closed that lever and water stopped.

 

[RhumbleFish]

Okay, thanks for confirming. It sounds like we're all thinking alike and on the same track! it looks like the elbow is the/a weak spot, and that you'll need a tighter/proper fitment there. You might also see if that current design/setup is self-inflicting the wobble at the elbow and if there's a better, lower stress method to get fresh water into the pump. From the photo, it looks like the elbow is your best bet, and you'll likely better off securing the supply lines (like a couple of screws + a sip ties) just to keep the water line from exerting torque on the elbow and pump assembly as you drive down the road.

Showermiser lever in the shower should be in the down position for 'normal' operation, which would route water from the pump, through your shower valves, to the spray handle. When the showermeiser level changes position (lifted/sticking OUT), it routes fresh water water that was going to the spray handle (and down into the gray tank) BACK to the fresh tank, so - while its termination seems a little early in the plumbing plan - it's still seemingly on the right side of things (being pulled into the pump, along with water from the fresh tank).

In our 235s, the pump and hot water tank and bathroom are all *very* close together, such that the showermiser isn't THAT necessary for preserving fresh water while waiting for HOT water to arrive, though it DOES help preserve fresh water as we're balancing out the temperature levels. We've found that cranking open the hot and cold shower valves *all* the way is actually a pretty good temperature mix for us, and we use the shutoff on the (replaced, Oxygenics) showerhead to control for water use (aka the navy shower).

Getting closer/almost there!

Just my .02, I could be - and often am - wrong.

 

[Chuck_S]

but no suction at the intake port on the outside panel

Nor should be. Fresh Water tank is typically gravity fill. Water can be poured from the loose end of a hose or from a jug the same way you put bleach into that tank assuming that's where the bleach went.

Fresh Water is stored in a tank on the trailer vs City Water which comes from a hydrant thru a hose and connects to a fitting on side of the trailer. Nomenclature matters.

I'm beginning to think I don't understand the plumbing in your trailer.

-- Chuck

 

[Danb203]

Nor should be. Fresh Water tank is typically gravity fill. Water can be poured from the loose end of a hose or from a jug the same way you put bleach into that tank assuming that's where the bleach went.

Fresh Water is stored in a tank on the trailer vs City Water which comes from a hydrant thru a hose and connects to a fitting on side of the trailer. Nomenclature matters.

I'm beginning to think I don't understand the plumbing in your trailer.

-- Chuck

I filled the fresh water tank with a bleach mixture from an opening next to the side door, below that there's a sticker that says fresh water tank release. When I dump that water, it smells like bleach.

Trailer plumbing is new to me which is why I am hear, thank you for the help this far.

The port on the back of the trailer not labeled city water or tank flush, goes directly to the T fitting/valve that is connected to the pump. If I have suction on the pump, but not 3 feet up stream at the port that means the medium between the two is leaking air or blocked.

I am assuming a short hose/whip gets hooked up to that port to vacuum in either water from a third source for instance a 5 gallon water jug or to winterize by pulling in antifreeze? I see no other way to get antifreeze in there.

 

[RhumbleFish]

I'm beginning to think I don't understand the plumbing in your trailer.

He's referring to the antifreeze intake port on the back of his 23IKSS. NOT the gravity fill for the tank on the camp side by the door.

In 2021, Rockwood Roos went to a combined/centralized panel for black tank flush, antifreeze intake and city water connection on the port side of the stern (some coax connections, too). Prior to this, the various ports were distributed on the port side rear, just aft of the slide (gravity fill stays midpoint on the camp side).

Combined water 'convenience' panel for '21: (you can actually see his plumbing running to this location in his photos).

Gravity/fresh tank fill on the camp side:

PREVIOUS to this centralization, city water and antifreeze inlet were on the offcamp side, just ahead of the hot water heater (black tank flush was more forward/closer to the back of the slide/above the dump valves):

 

[Danb203]

Yes combined, that's the exact panel. I think I need to run down to home depot to grab a 90 npt/pex connector after work. Once I know that weak point is repaired I can continue. Hoping that's the only thing I find.

 

[Chuck_S]

Your "bleach water tank" isn't connected to the pump somehow. No Tee connection out of that as the only thing that tank feeds is the water pump.

-- Chuck

 

[RhumbleFish]

I filled the fresh water tank with a bleach mixture from an opening next to the side door, below that there's a sticker that says fresh water tank release. When I dump that water, it smells like bleach.

Yep. Fresh water fill on the camp side by the door. Fresh tank dump valve below it/under your trailer.

Trailer plumbing is new to me which is why I am hear, thank you for the help this far.

It's all good - we all like to help. It can be frustrating, and there's a lot of things that are different coach to coach (even year to year).

The port on the back of the trailer not labeled city water or tank flush, goes directly to the T fitting/valve that is connected to the pump. If I have suction on the pump, but not 3 feet up stream at the port that means the medium between the two is leaking air or blocked.

As a lifelong sailor, it's frustrating to have unlabeled features/controls. The guy with the knowledge might not be the guy (attempting) to operate something, or you might have to give instructions to someone to do something. Labels help. I'd consider putting a little label on that port back there, just because.

I believe that you've diagnosed the issue properly, I think you're on the way to a good solution.

I am assuming a short hose/whip gets hooked up to that port to vacuum in either water from a third source for instance a 5 gallon water jug or to winterize by pulling in antifreeze? I see no other way to get antifreeze in there.

Yep, you got it. I buy the gallon jugs of the 100° stuff from walmart. It takes just ~2 gallons run all the lines in a full sized roo. To accommodate my antifreeze fill hose (which is a short length of garden hose), I cut the tops/handles off of my antifreeze gallons (need 2 to winterize), and dip the hose end into it - other end (as you correctly surmise) hooks up to your 'mystery' port. Switch that T in your plumbing photo and you'll draw from your antifreeze port, not the fresh tank. Flip on your pump and it will draw antifreeze into the system. When the first gallon gets empty, switch to the second gallon and bob's your uncle.

Note that you've got that 'clear tank' next to the pump in your wet bay. That's actually a filter housing. Several folks have deleted that filter (it's hard to get at, filters are expensive, and it's a place for leaks) and have opted to us an inline 'blue torpedo' style filter, whether they are hooked up to city water, or using that filter when they fill their fresh tank.

I actually like to run a filter in the housing, the OEM is the (somewhat pricey) FRE-10-GN from Forest River Electronics. that fits the FRE-10-H filter housing (which I believe is what's on your 23ikss - better double check, there's a label on it). For the somewhat budget conscious (that's me), Neo-Pure makes an aftermarket filter that replaces the FRE-10-GN.

A note that many of these filters have the same 10" body, but a different specific size interfact (the 'nipple' on the filter fits the top of the filter housing). It's another means of price and product control, so I'm not that in favor of it... but it does a good job for filtration. Your mileage may vary.

Just my .02, hope this helps.