Newbie on Tongue Weight

[Kevin+R]

I am hoping some people can give me feedback on a purchase I am wanting to make. I have never towed a travel trailer before and I'm a little nervous about the tongue weight and going over the GVWR for the vehicle. Below are the specs of the truck I own and the specs for the trailer I want to purchase. I will be traveling with just my wife and anticipate putting all the gear, etc., in the trailer. I owned a 32' class A for 5 years while towing our Chevy Traverse. I can't imagine us traveling with more than 1000 lbs worth of stuff. This is more than likely high. I know not to travel with your tanks full, etc.
I took the truck to the Cat scales with a full tank of gas, myself and my wife, and our two bicycles in the back of the truck. The truck weighed 5820 lbs leaving 1180 lbs available for the tongue weight and weight distribution tow hitch.

Does anyone actually own the TT (Flagstaff 26RKBS) I'm looking to purchase? If so, what was the actual tongue weight? From what I've been able to tell, the tongue weight published by Rockwood includes full propane tanks, but does not include the weight of the battery.

This is my thinking. I'm going to assume the trailer is 8000lbs and I'm targeting 10-12% tongue weight (800-960 lbs). Add the weight distribution of 100 lbs + battery 60 lbs. That should put me at 960 + 100 + 60 = 1,120. I also figure I won't be driving with a full tank of gas for very long and that number would only improve.

I've talked to a handful of people driving similar size trucks and they are all very confident I won't have any issues. But they are guessing based on their experiences.

Bottom line is I feel kind of stuck. How will I know the weight of the trailer unless I buy it and load it up. I'm really lost as to how hard it is to adjust the weight in the camper to affect the tongue weight? Thanks for your input.

2018 Ford F150 XLT - SuperCrew 5.5' box
3.5L EcoBoost V6
Max Trailer Tow Package
GVWR 7000 lbs
GCWR 18100 lbs
Max Trailer Rating 12700
Max payload 1739

Looking to purchase Forest River Flagstaff 26RKBS
2025 Rockwood Ultra Lite Travel Trailers 2614BS Floorplan - Forest River RV
Hitch Weight: 796
UVW: 6988
CCC: 1608
Length 29'9''

 

[Flybob]

Your tongue weight calculation looks fairly close. Subtracting that from the max payload (1739) will give you the allowable weight of passengers and items in the truck bed.

 

[bikendan]

Moved thread from the Tech and Repair section to the TT/5th Wheel section's Flagstaff sub-forum since the OP is asking for model-specific information on a Flagstaff product(real world loaded tongue weight).

OP, the fictional dry tongue weight from website/brochure, doesn't include the weights of batteries, factory options, dealer add-ons, water and trailer cargo.
Generally, for a ballpark loaded tongue weight, you multiply the GVWR by 12%.
That means a minimum of 1,030lbs. Subtract 100lbs for the WDH and you have 50lbs left for truck cargo.
Pretty tight numbers.

 

[mcbridek]

your not going to have any problem towing with that truck, with that engine and the max tow package and a good weight distribution hitch. I assume it has the 36 gallon tank…

 

[Bob K4TAX]

The UVW or unloaded vehicle weight is #6988 as it leaves the factory. Add to that the CCC, cargo carrying capacity of #1608 and you have a GVRW of 8596. Things that consume the CCC are filled LP tanks, batteries, and any tools, food, clothes, etc. you add to the trailer. Your truck won't have any issue towing this trailer.

However, I would expect the hitch weight would be more likely 1050 lbs. This is figured as 12% of the GVRW of the trailer. This subtracts from the cargo carrying weight of the truck. This leaves only some 700 lbs for "stuff in the truck". A WDH will take 100 lbs of that. As a rule, the 1/2 ton truck runs our of cargo capacity before exceeding towing capacity.

We tow a ~30' overall length trailer (GVRW 7685) with a Chev 1/2 ton, crew cab, short bed, with factory tow package. Although well within the numbers, I will often say the truck has a much trailer behind it as it wants. With the WDH setup correctly, it tows and rides very comfortable, and is very capable to make reasonable acceleration and safe stops. The added sway bar eliminates the effect of the front wave from passing semi's.

Here is a link which has several sections to assist in your determination.

Actual Weights - Travel Trailer/Bumper Pull Weights from CAT Scales - TowingPlanner

Bob

 

[Boomerweps]

Concur you are pretty good on figuring your weights and you will be within tolerances for your truck.
As shipped weight includes the EMPTY tanks, they are not shipped with full tanks.
Talk to the dealer and get a LiFePO4 battery (or buy one yourself and have the dealer discount you the SLA battery price). SLA average weight 62# for 100AH, LiFePO4 average is 23# for 100AH, plus you can run a LiFePO4 to 0% with no damage, SLA can only go to 50%.

 

[Kevin+R]

your not going to have any problem towing with that truck, with that engine and the max tow package and a good weight distribution hitch. I assume it has the 36 gallon tank…

Yes. 36 gallon gas tank.

 

[Qwkynuf]

Concur you are pretty good on figuring your weights and you will be within tolerances for your truck.
As shipped weight includes the EMPTY tanks, they are not shipped with full tanks.
Talk to the dealer and get a LiFePO4 battery (or buy one yourself and have the dealer discount you the SLA battery price). SLA average weight 62# for 100AH, LiFePO4 average is 23# for 100AH, plus you can run a LiFePO4 to 0% with no damage, SLA can only go to 50%.

From the specifications page for the specific camper that the OP is asking about, if you click on the "specifications definitions", it says this:

So, Forest River/Flagstaff says that the unloaded vehicle weight includes LP gas. You say it doesn't. Who is correct?

To the OP, 12% tongue weight is on the low end for most travel trailers - they seems to be happiest in the 13%-15% range. And with the unit you are looking at being a rear kitchen model, you may struggle to maintain enough tongue weight to keep it happy. Just my $0.02.

 

[GolfingDave]

Similar weights and truck and never had an issue towing with some winds up to 40 mph gusts but that was only one day of county and state roads for a couple hours.

My weights are at my trucks and trailers max. I've towed several times with full water and am definitely over then(maybe a couple hundred pounds) but figure the gas is being burned also. My tongue weight goes from I tow at 55 also and usually 50 mph on curving back roads.

My tongue weight loaded and no water is right near at what the specs say(+50lbs) so take all the comments about it being fictitious with a grain of salt.
Each camper is different and how people load them. I think my biggest weight gain was from my mattress upgrade which weighs close to 80 pound compared to the thing my camper came with.

I do use a cargo rack and a bike carrier to move some weight aft(200lbs).

All that being said I am towing a 26' camper vs a 30'.

 

[jjscsix]

Many (most) people forget about the water in your tanks. I have done a lot of experimenting by taking off my propane tanks. Moving them to the back of the trailer, etc

I have studied my tanks quite a bit. The gray and black tanks are over the the front axle to ahead of the axle. The fresh water tank is quite a ways in front of the axles. Ten gallons in a tank ahead of the axle ads 90 lbs to the tongue weight. I realize this could vary a bit because some of that weight could be split to the rear, but the figure is close. And if you think you have drained all the water, there is probably some in the tanks.

And how much stuff do you store in a front pass through compartment or under the bed if like mine the bed is at the very front?

 

[Chuck_S]

I think this will work fine.

As ably noted earlier catalog trailer empty weights are meaningless. Planning weight for the trailer is 8600 pounds (UVW + Cargo capacity) and tongue weight needs to be (i.e. - required) in the 10% - 15% range so can be as much as 1,300 pounds.

Not sure why "12%" keeps showing up for planning tongue weights as that's simply the average of 10% and 15% and ya can't just pick a number and hope it will work. Every "rig" is unique. As a good a starting point as any but be prepared to tweak it.

-- Chuck

 

[Bob K4TAX]

I've tried more and I've tried less. The 12% number is best tongue weight for our combination. Lighter and we have too much sway where the tail is wagging the dog. When heavier the rig will porpoise a bit much on bumps and dips. With our WDH, I find it necessary to choose a different number of chain links depending on truck and trailer loading. Sometimes 5, sometimes 6, and sometimes 7. I have a small wood stick about 18" long, which I have marked. I put the trailer on the ball, use the stick to determine distance from the ground to the ball mounting plate, read the number on the stick, and engage the chain arms with the correct number of links. Works consistently.
If we are heavy, I typically end up using 5, if we are light I use 7, and then sometime I use 6. Just depends. My point being, I don't find a "setting and forget" condition for the WDH.

Bob

 

[Kevin+R]

The comments have been helpful and I have at least confirmed my guesstimates for what the actual numbers might look like are at least close, but at the end of the day, I won't know the real numbers until we have it loaded up. I like the battery upgrade and moving the bikes to the back of the trailer on a hitch would help as well for lightening the tongue weigh. I might try to find the trailer we are interested in and rent it for a weekend to see how I feel with it.

 

[Chuck_S]

Weight behind the trailer axles can cause fishtailing. And that's not the way to reduce tongue weight. Weight back there adds to pendulum forces. Tail will then wag the dog.

In my experience tongue weights are seldom too high assuming the trailer was properly designed and not strangely loaded.

-- Chuck

 

[Boomerweps]

On my trailer (series) the factory tongue weight IS 10% of the GVWR. So I guess they assume an evenly loaded TT at GVWR for tongue weight.

 

[Chuck_S]

Did you measure it? Or is that just brochure weight?

Did they measure it? Fully loaded?

Time for Calvin and Hobbs to enter the discussion again...

 

[GolfingDave]

Weight behind the trailer axles can cause fishtailing.

I just do not believe that as long as your tongue weight is still not light(below the 10%).
The arm on the area behind the axles is small compared to the arm forward of the axles.
200 lbs aft is negligible when compared to what is in front of the axles.

Now load up an empty flat trailer and put a bobcat or such aft of the axles, you will have problems.

 

[Kevin+R]

I just do not believe that as long as your tongue weight is still not light(below the 10%).
The arm on the area behind the axles is small compared to the arm forward of the axles.
200 lbs aft is negligible when compared to what is in front of the axles.

This was kind of my thought as well based on what I have been reading and being closer to 10% is better than closer to 15%. My goal would be 11% by adjusting weight like the bicycles.

 

[D W]

Did you measure it? Or is that just brochure weight?

Did they measure it? Fully loaded?

Time for Calvin and Hobbs to enter the discussion again...

X2. Unless you load it up for camping and hit the scales, everything is just an empty guess.

 

[Kevin+R]

Thank you for your feedback. My DW and I are going to get a TT that is a few lbs lighter to error on the side of caution and get some experience. But everyone was able to validate that I'm not off in my evaluation of the situation. I might even upgrade to a F250 in the future.