No need for battery?

[Minthillbill]

On my last camper i rarely (2x in 5 years) used the battery. Installed a connector on it so most of the time was disconnected. When I did use it, was for the tongue jack. So on this one i use same battery and connector. Was thinking of adding a switch but based upon above really can’t justify it.
What do you absolutely need your battery for?

 

[MGD1961]

On my last camper i rarely (2x in 5 years) used the battery. Installed a connector on it so most of the time was disconnected. When I did use it, was for the tongue jack. So on this one i use same battery and connector. Was thinking of adding a switch but based upon above really can’t justify it.
What do you absolutely need your battery for?

If you are running directly off your Converter with no battery large starting loads like the furnace or the 12 volt fridge may exceed the converters capacity.

The battery in that case acts as a buffer to provide those momentarily peak loads.

 

[RhumbleFish]

What do you absolutely need your battery for?

Absolutely? I can only imagine (1) various detectors (smoke, CO) and (2) the emergency activation of the break-away brakes. After that it's lights/fan , spark/brain for the propane fridge (or 12v fridge) and lighting the hot water tank and furnace (plus fan). Then down to ancillary systems.

You'll still have to maintain a lead acid battery. A little solar panel and a small (100 ah) LiFePo would go a long way to meeting your low impact needs with significantly reduced maintenance.

 

[TitanMike]

If you are running directly off your Converter with no battery large starting loads like the furnace or the 12 volt fridge may exceed the converters capacity.

The battery in that case acts as a buffer to provide those momentarily peak loads.

Maybe a small 35 amp converter but most run 55-60 amps depending on mfr.

Published running amperage for 12v RV refrigerators is 7.5 amps and their inrush current is a lot less than that of an AC motor.

 

[Minthillbill]

If you are running directly off your Converter with no battery large starting loads like the furnace or the 12 volt fridge may exceed the converters capacity.

The battery in that case acts as a buffer to provide those momentarily peak loads.

Good point, given the 55amp convertor I gave no thought to starting loads from the furnace. My last fridge was 120v so this one is 12, new technology, have to measure the load.

Thanks.

 

[Minthillbill]

Absolutely? I can only imagine (1) various detectors (smoke, CO) and (2) the emergency activation of the break-away brakes. After that it's lights/fan , spark/brain for the propane fridge (or 12v fridge) and lighting the hot water tank and furnace (plus fan). Then down to ancillary systems.

You'll still have to maintain a lead acid battery. A little solar panel and a small (100 ah) LiFePo would go a long way to meeting your low impact needs with significantly reduced maintenance.

Brakes, for sure, have to connect it when traveling. No on/off switch on fridge or i would shut off when traveling. Truck connection will power it when connected
Thanks,….Bill
.

 

[Reverse_snowbird]

^^^^ You definitely need a battery for brakes on the rig while traveling.
You also may need it to operate the slides.

 

[TitanMike]

Brakes, for sure, have to connect it when traveling. No on/off switch on fridge or i would shut off when traveling. Truck connection will power it when connected
Thanks,….Bill
.

You might be shocked if you knew how many recreational trailers are on the road without batteries and even without functional brakes. Especially the smaller sized ones towed by larger trucks that just go back and forth to seasonal sites.

Unless trailers require an annual inspection when renewing registration this won't really change. Having owned TT's with electric brakes since 1972 I have never had to demonstrate whether trailer could stop in required distance with e-brake cable pulled and power from tow vehicle disconnected.

 

[Bob K4TAX]

On my last camper i rarely (2x in 5 years) used the battery. Installed a connector on it so most of the time was disconnected. When I did use it, was for the tongue jack. So on this one i use same battery and connector. Was thinking of adding a switch but based upon above really can’t justify it.
What do you absolutely need your battery for?

Legally you must have a 12 volt source on board to operate the brakes in the event of a disconnect from the tow vehicle. Also, the various detectors are powered from the 12 volt source. If shore power is connected and the converter is working the various detectors will be powered.

Bob

 

[PhilFromMaine]

You might be shocked if you knew how many recreational trailers are on the road without batteries and even without functional brakes. Especially the smaller sized ones towed by larger trucks that just go back and forth to seasonal sites.


Unless trailers require an annual inspection when renewing registration this won't really change. Having owned TT's with electric brakes since 1972 I have never had to demonstrate whether trailer could stop in required distance with e-brake cable pulled and power from tow vehicle disconnected.

Agreed. The only time this issue would ever become a problem would be in the very unlikely situation where your coupler and runaway chains failed and your trailer hit another vehicle or person and inflicted bodily injury.

Any trained accident investigator will look at the emergency brake switch system and note that the trailer did not have a functioning E-Brake system. This brings up the "reckless disregard" concept especially if the E-Brake switch is there, but the battery isn't.

In my opinion, the safety added by the emergency break-away brake is very small, but if the switch is there, you probably have it functional.

 

[Aussieguy]

if you want to remove the battery and rely on converter you will need a BIGGER converter... to be able to reliably power stuff like the slides, jacks , stabilizers
they have to have a good power source (inrush) to get moving. you just might have to power share if the converter is small one (35 amp)


12v fridges, lights awnings and furnace fans don't draw a lot of power so can easily be run off the converter

since the converter is close to the fuse panel (90% of the time) the wiring for any "Fuse panel" 12v stuff will be nice and short

any stuff directly connected to battery may suffer from voltage drop if no battery, as it may have to travel further to get power from the converter.. Plus the Negative to frame connection can influence stuff connected at battery.. anything not on the main fuse panel may get restricted by the poor frame connections


a battery even a small one can supply a lot of power (amps) very quickly
Therefore as slides and jacks get older... they work less efficiently and then can require even more power from the converter

when/IF you are on generator power ... with limited amps. You may bog down the generator if you rely on it to provide all the 120v AND the 12v..
plus if you need to just turn on a light.. you have to first start the generator. when you get old like me there may not be time to start a generator in the middle of the night.


Shorepower is not a real concern unless you are right at the limits for the loads you run...
then just like a generator you might need the battery in some situations

Get a no/limited maintenance type battery and keep it charged
won't hurt having one the converter is not being overloaded by a battery if the battery is full... zero amp draw from converter for FULL battery which it will be full 99% of the time while you got shore power ON

In effect.... the battery acts like it has a switch and won't demand power from converter while it is FULL.

used in this manner and KEPT charged as per manufacturers guidelines ... battery should last many many years... it won't really be doing any work and will age out well before it reaches cycle life.

 

[TitanMike]

if you want to remove the battery and rely on converter you will need a BIGGER converter... to be able to reliably power stuff like the slides, jacks , stabilizers
they have to have a good power source (inrush) to get moving. you just might have to power share if the converter is small one (35 amp)


12v fridges, lights awnings and furnace fans don't draw a lot of power so can easily be run off the converter

since the converter is close to the fuse panel (90% of the time) the wiring for any "Fuse panel" 12v stuff will be nice and short

any stuff directly connected to battery may suffer from voltage drop if no battery, as it may have to travel further to get power from the converter.. Plus the Negative to frame connection can influence stuff connected at battery.. anything not on the main fuse panel may get restricted by the poor frame connections


a battery even a small one can supply a lot of power (amps) very quickly
Therefore as slides and jacks get older... they work less efficiently and then can require even more power from the converter

when/IF you are on generator power ... with limited amps. You may bog down the generator if you rely on it to provide all the 120v AND the 12v..
plus if you need to just turn on a light.. you have to first start the generator. when you get old like me there may not be time to start a generator in the middle of the night.


Shorepower is not a real concern unless you are right at the limits for the loads you run...
then just like a generator you might need the battery in some situations

Get a no/limited maintenance type battery and keep it charged
won't hurt having one the converter is not being overloaded by a battery if the battery is full... zero amp draw from converter for FULL battery which it will be full 99% of the time while you got shore power ON

In effect.... the battery acts like it has a switch and won't demand power from converter while it is FULL.

used in this manner and KEPT charged as per manufacturers guidelines ... battery should last many many years... it won't really be doing any work and will age out well before it reaches cycle life.

All this sounds good but how do you explain how dealers operate all the above from JUST THE CONVERTER while the RV is still on their lot and the Trailer's batteries are yet to be delivered for install at the time of sale??????

The slide on my trailer has an actual measured current max of <10 amps whie operating with no solar or converter providing power. My converter is a 50 amp sized unit.

 

[rracer5]

You NEED a battery. It acts as a buffer/stabilizer for the 12v system. The converter can put out higher voltage (in excess of 16 or 17 volts) trying to charge a battery that it thinks is near dead or absent. This high voltage can be dangerous and can cause damage to 12v circuit boards on the 12v appliances. As stated above, the battery manages power surges and supplies an even flow.

 

[TitanMike]

Yet right on the WFCO they state right out you don't need a battery when operating their converter.

I do recall the instructions for my OLD Magnatek converter with only a single voltage output (now obsolete) recommending a battery as a buffer but none of the converters from WFCO, progressive Dynamics, or Victron, required one. On the Victron when using without a battery you just use Bluetooth to switch it into Power Supply mode.

 

[miataroadster]

Absolutely? I can only imagine (1) various detectors (smoke, CO) and (2) the emergency activation of the break-away brakes. After that it's lights/fan , spark/brain for the propane fridge (or 12v fridge) and lighting the hot water tank and furnace (plus fan). Then down to ancillary systems.

You'll still have to maintain a lead acid battery. A little solar panel and a small (100 ah) LiFePo would go a long way to meeting your low impact needs with significantly reduced maintenance.

×2 on carbon monoxide (California reqmt).
x2 on 12v fridge.

 

[Flybob]

I would not recommend disconnecting the battery for several reasons one of which is it required by law in most if not all states. The fact that some people tow all the time without a battery is not a good reason to do it. People drive daily without a license and/or insurance but that is not a reason to do it.

 

[PhilFromMaine]

I would not recommend disconnecting the battery for several reasons one of which is it required by law in most if not all states. The fact that some people tow all the time without a battery is not a good reason to do it. People drive daily without a license and/or insurance but that is not a reason to do it.

Maybe someone mentioned it, but I believe you can get internal battery operated detectors that will cover all the threats presented by CO2, propane, smoke, etc. that do not need to be hooked up to the house battery.

 

[5picker]

You might be shocked if you knew how many recreational trailers are on the road without batteries and even without functional brakes. Especially the smaller sized ones towed by larger trucks that just go back and forth to seasonal sites.

Unless trailers require an annual inspection when renewing registration this won't really change. Having owned TT's with electric brakes since 1972 I have never had to demonstrate whether trailer could stop in required distance with e-brake cable pulled and power from tow vehicle disconnected.

Well in PA you would need to demonstrate the e-Brakes work.
Having been a State Inspection mechanic since 1971, I've pulled hundreds of break-away pins and had the customer try to pull forward to see if theirs worked.

On the other hand, my friend still owns the garage I first started working at. I asked him whether they still do this and his response was "sometimes."

 

[Aussieguy]

All this sounds good but how do you explain how dealers operate all the above from JUST THE CONVERTER while the RV is still on their lot and the Trailer's batteries are yet to be delivered for install at the time of sale??????

The slide on my trailer has an actual measured current max of <10 amps whie operating with no solar or converter providing power. My converter is a 50 amp sized unit.

depends on the dealer.... when I did my PDI it was in a covered bay with 120v power available.
but have seen dealers use a temporary battery in the YARD when they need to operate a slide and 120v power is not available.


I have run my slide with only the converter tested it once ... it worked for now...
in the future with age , corrosion at terminals and maybe into the wires..
things like the slides , jacks and stabilizers MAY start to play up.

had issue with my slide a few weeks ago... It would not retract back in
HAD to physically PULL on the slide to get it to move
Not sure of the cause... hall sensors , battery amps or mechanical issue... since it is not doing it again.......... hard to work out what it was?



YES it is possible to remove battery
OR if you want to keep a battery hooked up AND if you are on shorepower all the time ... battery will be always full and won't be a demand on the converter.

choice is up to the user...
Pitfalls and what may happen is outlined in a lot of good posts

 

[PhilFromMaine]

All this sounds good but how do you explain how dealers operate all the above from JUST THE CONVERTER while the RV is still on their lot and the Trailer's batteries are yet to be delivered for install at the time of sale??????

The slide on my trailer has an actual measured current max of <10 amps whie operating with no solar or converter providing power. My converter is a 50 amp sized unit.

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