Outside surge protection for Isata 3 Freedom Edition

[xrpb11a]

I'm considering purchasing a portable surge protector to be plugged into the outside electrical post. I can't find anywhere in the Xantrex 3000 watt inverter manual whether it has an internal AC surge protector before the transfer relay for incoming park ac power, and what it would be rated for if it exists.

I can't find anywhere in Isata documentation where there is an internal surge protector between the outside AC recepticle, and the inverter.

When plugged into park power, the inverter passes 120vac directly to the AC clients via the transfer switch ( i think ). But it also uses this incoming AC power to charge the batteries. If it is not internally surpressing park AC spikes, I'm wondering if the battery charging circuitry, and anything connected to it, may suffer damage.

I had a 40ft Solitude 5th wheel awhile back, and the first 6 months of ownership were hell fighting various electrical malfunctions. Once I put a voltage regulator/surge surpressor on the outside pedestal park power, all that went away.

Hmmm.

 

[Randall Jay]

Which inverter do you have? Magnum Dimension 2000W?

I used one of these internally connected surge protectors for 14 years. I guess it worked, didn’t have any way to know. We mostly boondock but this was the top one way back when. I have been debating installing it in our 2025 Isata 3 but the fridge is 12V (my original thought was to spend $200 to protect a $1500 fridge).

https://www.rvupgradestore.com/Surge-Guard-30-amp-Permanent-RV-Surge-Protector-p/55-2704.htm

 

[Reverse_snowbird]

What you want is a surge protector/ Electrical Management System that protects your rig from low voltage also. We have a Progressive Industries one that shuts off power to the rig when the voltage gets too low or high, then turns back on when voltage returns to normal. Some people find the low voltage shutoff annoying, but we'd rather protect the electronics in the rig. Not cheap, but worth it.

As to what protections are built into the rig, I don't know.

 

[xrpb11a]

Which inverter do you have? Magnum Dimension 2000W?

I used one of these internally connected surge protectors for 14 years. I guess it worked, didn’t have any way to know. We mostly boondock but this was the top one way back when. I have been debating installing it in our 2025 Isata 3 but the fridge is 12V (my original thought was to spend $200 to protect a $1500 fridge).

https://www.rvupgradestore.com/Surge-Guard-30-amp-Permanent-RV-Surge-Protector-p/55-2704.htm

I have the Xantrex XC pro 3000 watt inverter charger.
I was looking at portable one to test as I read in another forum that the external surge protector may not get along nicely with the Xantrex inverter. Not sure if that's true or not.

 

[xrpb11a]

What you want is a surge protector/ Electrical Management System that protects your rig from low voltage also. We have a Progressive Industries one that shuts off power to the rig when the voltage gets too low or high, then turns back on when voltage returns to normal. Some people find the low voltage shutoff annoying, but we'd rather protect the electronics in the rig. Not cheap, but worth it.

As to what protections are built into the rig, I don't know.

The Xantrex XC Pro 3000 watt inverter does have detection of low and high voltage and will shut down park power and go on battery power automatically. I'm just not sure about momentary spike protection.
The Isata 3 Freedom edition is all electric, so there is more advanced circuitry to protect. The inverter may well have it all built in, but I can't find anything in their documentation about surge surpressing the incoming 120vac from the power pole.

 

[NXR]

The Xantrex XC Pro 3000 watt inverter does have detection of low and high voltage and will shut down park power and go on battery power automatically. I'm just not sure about momentary spike protection.

I just looked at the manual and no, it does not. What it will do is cut anything wired to the inverter from park power/generator power to inverter power. The manual says it's only for low voltages, not high voltages. Most RV inverters do that, actually.

For that inverter to do what you think it does the automatic transfer switch would need to be wired directly to the inverter so that ALL park power passes through it, potentially 12,000 watts.

If the pedestal is sending too much voltage, has an open neutral, an open ground, reverse wiring, whatever, the Xantrex does not care and things like air conditioners will be damaged.

Ray

 

[MAC D]

I've been using the PWD50 and am happy with it. The phone app is pretty cool.

https://hughesautoformers.com/

About $200, Replaceable module.

 

[xrpb11a]

I just looked at the manual and no, it does not. What it will do is cut anything wired to the inverter from park power/generator power to inverter power. The manual says it's only for low voltages, not high voltages. Most RV inverters do that, actually.

For that inverter to do what you think it does the automatic transfer switch would need to be wired directly to the inverter so that ALL park power passes through it, potentially 12,000 watts.

If the pedestal is sending too much voltage, has an open neutral, an open ground, reverse wiring, whatever, the Xantrex does not care and things like air conditioners will be damaged.

Ray

You are correct. The inverter only cuts off low voltage from the grid, not high voltage.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the Isata 3 Freedom edition has an automatic transfer switch outside the inverter,as it does not use a generator.
So in the attached picture out of the Xantrex manual, #14, shore power, is connected directly to #12,the AC fuse panel, then to #3, the inverter.

"All park power" going directly to the inverter is limited by the AC input fuse panel to 30 amps.

I think the transfer switch lies inside the inverter, supplying the rig with grid AC power, or inverted 120vac power from the batteries.
And in "grid" mode, the inverter uses some of that grid power to charge the batteries and detect the incoming shore power state. Which can expose the inverter electronics to shore spikes in "grid mode".

So it looks like I'm going 30 amp surge protector shopping today!

 

[Randall Jay]

So it looks like I'm going 30 amp surge protector shopping today!

I meant to touch on this in my earlier post: have people had thefts of these surge protectors that are unsecured at the power pedestal?
I like the convenience but opted for internal install for this reason.

 

[Chuck_S]

The main purpose of these surge protectors seems to be selling them.

Anyone have a surge protector on their house? I'm sure a couple folks do but they'd be universal if surge was a problem. Connecting my camper at home has no more danger than the rest of my house. I can see low voltage at a campground as an issue but that's not surge and surge is dangerous only if it greatly exceeds normal voltage.

-- Chuck

 

[Bearii-FRF]

From my reading you are correct that there is not a surge protector. All I've seen is the protection to turn off shore power if the voltage drops below a setting you can change. For that reason I added a Hughes Power Watchdog (https://hughesautoformers.com/product/pwd30-epo-h/) hardwired version. Personally I prefer hardwired surge protectors over the portable version. The portable versions have to be manually hooked up, you may feel the need to lock them to the pedestal (they are pricey) and they are out in the elements.

On the Freedom Edition it is SUPER SIMPLE to hardwire in the Hughes Watchdog and will probably take you less than 15 min to install. There is a small compartment at the very rear of the coach next to the bed. It is basically unusable because that is where the power and water lines come into the coach. Here are the steps:

1. Remove the 30 amp connector on the outside of the coach and disconnect the wire from the receptacle
2. Go inside the coach and open the small compartment, pull the wire you've just disconnected back into the compartment and wire it to the output side of the Hughes Watchdog
3. Take a small (3 foot or less is plenty) of size 10 wire and connect it to the input of the Hughes Watchdog
4. Push the wire back through the outside hole and connect to the receptacle and remount the receptacle.

That's it! If you don't have the wire go to Home Depot/Lowes and buy it by the foot, very inexpensive. Three feet of wire is plenty, you may want to trim it down even more. The beauty of this setup is that when you connect to shore power and turn it on you can listen for the thump of the surge protector turning on power to the coach. If you don't hear it you can pull up the Hughes app on your phone to see what's wrong with the power source and decide your next steps.

I chose the Hughes Watchdog because I like the fact that is has the replaceable surge/spike module. Surge protectors all fail eventually because they are designed to sacrifice themselves to save your equipment. With the Hughes you can keep a spare module ($34) and remove the old one and install it yourself. Much cheaper than replacing the whole unit. There are lots of great units out there though - SurgeGuard is another good brand. Just be sure it will fit in your little cupboard by the bed or you'll have to do some other wiring setup. I've attached a pic before and after the install of that compartment.

This surge protector is the one I've used on several rigs now and I'm amazed how many times it has saved my RV's from poor electrical situations. The most common one is low voltage. A low voltage situation won't kill for example your A/C unit on day one but over a limited time it will damage it and cause them to fail. It is not uncommon at all on a hot summer day for voltages to drop at RV parks to bad levels. Most park electrical systems were designed before all these rigs started showing up with three big A/C units on top. They just can't handle the load these rigs put on the circuitry and hence you'll get big voltage drops in these situations. Don't let the fact that other rigs still have their A/C running off the park electrical system. Next spring when their A/C fails and they complain about poor quality you'll know the real reason is they were running that A/C unit on 90volts of power, something they were never designed to do.

The Hughes will shut off power to your coach if the voltage drops below 104v. The nice thing is that we have these big batteries so we can keep running our 120v equipment until the RV park voltage recovers. You can easily reset the Hughes using the phone app. The app uses bluetooth so you have to be in or near your coach to reset the surge protector.

 

[NXR]

Wow, you're right. A propane generator really sucks the fuel. I wonder why FR chose that instead of a diesel generator.

Correct, no transfer switch. The one inside the inverter is it.

Ray

 

[NXR]

If people knew not to use "surge protector" as a generic term for electrical protection this would be a lot easier subject to understand.

You want a device that will kill the power AUTOMATICALLY when warranted. With a 30-amp RV the damage potential is a lot less than with a 50-amp RV, though. Protections include:

- An open (disconnected) neutral wire.

- An open (disconnected) ground wire.

- High voltage

- Low voltage

- Reverse polarity


For a 30 amp RV the "open neutral" likely will just cause a total loss of electrical power unless someone has done a very stupid wiring change where the electrical safety "ground" has been essentially short-circuited directly to the "neutral" inside the trailer somewhere. In that case the power should stay on, except maybe for GFCI outlets, but it can present a severe shock hazard to the occupants.


For a disconnected ground wire there is the potential for a severe, even fatal, electric shock. If you've ever heard of "hot skin" this is it.


Both 30-amp and 50-amp RV air conditioners are susceptible to the same damage from low campground voltage so a protecting EMS (as opposed to just a surge protector) for a 30-amp RV will also protect those air conditioners.


Reverse polarity occurs when the person who wired the pedestal swapped two wires in the outlet. This can cause a severe shock hazard.


Low voltage? If you are present and you notice the A/C acting up from low voltage, yes, you can just shut it off. But what if you're not there for the day and the low voltage causes the A/C to try to start the compressor for hours? I don't know if that is enough to overheat the compressor motor or not but it cannot be any good for it. That kind of damage can be cumulative.

If you have a residential fridge with a 120 volt AC compressor, it will be susceptible to the same low voltage damage as well unless it was designed for 120 - 240 VAC like your Mac. I've never seen one but maybe they exist.

With the price of an A/C by itself approaching a thousand dollars plus the replacement costs, and with the current parts shortages, I'd rather not go there. But you might be OK with it. An EMS that actually cuts the power off rather than just light idiot lights is just insurance or perhaps preventative maintenance, like so much else we do. You may never need it but it likely will not hurt, except maybe your bank account. At least a true EMS is just a one-time cost and not an ongoing cost.


Note that "protect" means "turns all power off to the RV". Some people think the cure may be worse than the disease. Some might bypass the EMS and just keep the A/C shut off for the duration of the power problem.

A plain old surge protector, one that only lights idiot lights at best, is WORTHLESS. Do not go there.

FWIW,

Ray

 

[xrpb11a]

I meant to touch on this in my earlier post: have people had thefts of these surge protectors that are unsecured at the power pedestal?
I like the convenience but opted for internal install for this reason.

I think some of the external ones have places you can padlock them to the post.
I like the internal method. Not sure if there is room inside the battery compartment or behind the right power wall to install it there. Need to investigate further...

 

[xrpb11a]

The main purpose of these surge protectors seems to be selling them.

Anyone have a surge protector on their house? I'm sure a couple folks do but they'd be universal if surge was a problem. Connecting my camper at home has no more danger than the rest of my house. I can see low voltage at a campground as an issue but that's not surge and surge is dangerous only if it greatly exceeds normal voltage.

-- Chuck

The reason I'm looking into this is because there have been several Xantrex XC Pro 3000 inverters that have become inoperable in the past month or so on the I3 Freedom edition. Others have used this inverter without any issues in other models for a long time.
So I'm trying to eliminate all possible causes of failure, with noisy fluctuating park power being one of them.

 

[xrpb11a]

On the Freedom Edition it is SUPER SIMPLE to hardwire in the Hughes Watchdog and will probably take you less than 15 min to install. There is a small compartment at the very rear of the coach next to the bed. It is basically unusable because that is where the power and water lines come into the coach. Here are the steps:

1. Remove the 30 amp connector on the outside of the coach and disconnect the wire from the receptacle
2. Go inside the coach and open the small compartment, pull the wire you've just disconnected back into the compartment and wire it to the output side of the Hughes Watchdog
3. Take a small (3 foot or less is plenty) of size 10 wire and connect it to the input of the Hughes Watchdog
4. Push the wire back through the outside hole and connect to the receptacle and remount the receptacle.

That's it! If you don't have the wire go to Home Depot/Lowes and buy it by the foot, very inexpensive. Three feet of wire is plenty, you may want to trim it down even more. The beauty of this setup is that when you connect to shore power and turn it on you can listen for the thump of the surge protector turning on power to the coach. If you don't hear it you can pull up the Hughes app on your phone to see what's wrong with the power source and decide your next steps.

I chose the Hughes Watchdog because I like the fact that is has the replaceable surge/spike module. Surge protectors all fail eventually because they are designed to sacrifice themselves to save your equipment. With the Hughes you can keep a spare module ($34) and remove the old one and install it yourself. Much cheaper than replacing the whole unit. There are lots of great units out there though - SurgeGuard is another good brand. Just be sure it will fit in your little cupboard by the bed or you'll have to do some other wiring setup. I've attached a pic before and after the install of that compartment.

This surge protector is the one I've used on several rigs now and I'm amazed how many times it has saved my RV's from poor electrical situations. The most common one is low voltage. A low voltage situation won't kill for example your A/C unit on day one but over a limited time it will damage it and cause them to fail. It is not uncommon at all on a hot summer day for voltages to drop at RV parks to bad levels. Most park electrical systems were designed before all these rigs started showing up with three big A/C units on top. They just can't handle the load these rigs put on the circuitry and hence you'll get big voltage drops in these situations. Don't let the fact that other rigs still have their A/C running off the park electrical system. Next spring when their A/C fails and they complain about poor quality you'll know the real reason is they were running that A/C unit on 90volts of power, something they were never designed to do.

The Hughes will shut off power to your coach if the voltage drops below 104v. The nice thing is that we have these big batteries so we can keep running our 120v equipment until the RV park voltage recovers. You can easily reset the Hughes using the phone app. The app uses bluetooth so you have to be in or near your coach to reset the surge protector.

THIS!! is exactly what I was hoping for.
And with instructions to boot!
Thanks Bearii! I'm ordering up the Hughes unit today!

 

[Bearii-FRF]

The reason I'm looking into this is because there have been several Xantrex XC Pro 3000 inverters that have become inoperable in the past month or so on the I3 Freedom edition. Others have used this inverter without any issues in other models for a long time.
So I'm trying to eliminate all possible causes of failure, with noisy fluctuating park power being one of them.

This is a good reason to add a EMS (deferring to the comment on using the term "surge protector" ) but I'd add that the comparing an RV Campground electrical system to a household electrical system is comparing apples to giraffes IMHO. Campgrounds have far greater electrical stressors (think twenty 40 foot rigs with three A/C's each). Many are older and the electrical systems were installed by Uncle Joe who took a basic electrical course in high school and didn't envision a scenario of so many simultaneous loads or use installation procedures that would meet any kind of reasonable codes, etc., etc. I've traveled all over North America in RV's and my EMS devices have tripped many times for all sorts of reasons. NXR's list of five reasons is a great start and I've seen all of them. And yes, be sure to use an EMS that provides total disconnect protection!

 

[Judge64]

I installed a Progressive Industries Hardwired EMS and placed it next to the bed like David did with his. It protects the Inverter ATS and the entire coach. It also has a remote display to see if it is working.... voltage.... current... and error codes. It also has an override switch if it ever fails.

It also has a lifetime warranty and they are great. I had a campground fry one and they sent me a new one.

This was my first upgrade and modification I did to my Freedom Edition and I never included it in my Freedom Edition Upgrades and Modifications Thread!

 

[Judge64]

The reason I'm looking into this is because there have been several Xantrex XC Pro 3000 inverters that have become inoperable in the past month or so on the I3 Freedom edition. Others have used this inverter without any issues in other models for a long time.
So I'm trying to eliminate all possible causes of failure, with noisy fluctuating park power being one of them.

My Freedom X/C Pro 3000 failed when it was not plugged into shore power... I was driving down the road when it started an E10 Error.... Internal Hardware Fault. I had a hardwired EMS installed anyway so grid surge did not cause the problem. More likely a component failure due ot manufacturing and Q/C.

A hardwired EMS is the first upgrade I make to every new coach I buy. It is cheap protection for fridges, A/C's, stoves, ovens and transfer switches.

 

[bclemens]

Wow, you're right. A propane generator really sucks the fuel. I wonder why FR chose that instead of a diesel generator.

Correct, no transfer switch. The one inside the inverter is it.

Ray

Diesel generator is only 3.2kw vs 3.6kw. The fuel line from MB was reduced in diameter so it can cause issues with fuel supply (work arounds do exist). Diesel generator is expensive, and heavy, and will soon no longer be produced. In fact they are done today...the only thing left is on-hand stock at Onan, unless someone else comes into that market.

LP Gen is 99.9% trouble free, clean, and light.