Ran it out of diesel- SOLVED

[TowPro]

OP has not been around since 12/28. guess he is walking, or got it fixed.

 

[vlamgat]

It is not SNAKE OIL! I believe he may be referring to this product by Power Service (which lot of people refer to as Diesel Kleen) DIESEL FUEL SUPPLEMENT +CETANE BOOST, which is a winterizer/antigel product.

If you have had a gelling issue you would be using this. I have been using this since 2008, in my first diesel vehicle. My friend who owns diesel trucks for his business has had to deal with gelling issue in the past. When the temps drop to below -0 during the day. This has cost him close to $300 each time to resolve the issue on his work trucks when they gel. The cost includes a HOOK (tow truck) to get the truck into a heated garage from the work site and than replacing all of the fuel filters which are ruined. Plus the service man wages in getting the truck started.

Believe want you want but it is vary cheap insurance against diesel fuel gelling in the winter, especially since most states are mandating 20% BIO-fuel now

Gotcha - Gelling issues are quite another issue and I understand your point now. Other than that, the stuff is worthless in most climates but without tank heaters it's a worthwhile precaution especially where the tanks are exposed to chill factors and are subject to Bio Diesel fills.

 

[MAC D]

This is a Cummins press release about Diesel Kleen for summer and Diesel Fuel for winter, if I get this to post...
https://www.cummins.com/news/releas...oric industry move,for use in diesel engines.

 

[nomad297]

if I get this to post...

Here you go:

https://www.cummins.com/news/releas...ne-and#:~:text=In a historic industry move,fo r%20use%20in%20diesel%20engines

Bruce

 

[TowPro]

Click Here to see release


I recall when I was working at a mechanic in the late 70's early 80's we were in a cold snap, a truck pulled into the parking lot with no power. We looked in fuel tank and stuck a stick in, when we pulled it out and you could see the diesel looked like it has Vaseline in it. We added some product we were selling back than along with some additional diesel to mix it up. within minutes Vaseline was gone from tank and truck started running strong again.


I recall the old 350cid Diesels GM had. a lot of customers would backup to the kerosene pump and mix about 20% kero to the diesel tank to keep them running in the cold.

I have only twice had problems myself.

around the late 90's there was a fire at the sunoco refinery in Phila so they started trucking diesel up from the south, but it was not winterized and a lot of people got stuck. I was always treating every tank than with Power service and was not affected.

the last several years my truck would sit in garage most of the winter as its real purpose was summer use towing campers, etc. I had to run up to central PA in early January to pickup a motorcycle. it was in lower 20's when I left. Truck had fuel in it from October. The garage is heated so truck was warm when I started but fuel cooled off going down the road. truck started to loose power. Stopped at a station, put in a small bottle of Power service white and filled tank up. within minutes the truck was running good again.

Where an RV'er will get in trouble is filling up in south, and running north into an area that is real cold.

I used to keep a 16oz bottle of power service red 911 under the back seat of the truck just in case. Now I live in the south but If were to need to head north in my MH I would carry two 16oz bottles of the white bottle. One to mix with my first fill up, than one as a spare.
The stuff really stinks. that is why I carry small bottles, use it and throw away bottle, no chance of spilling what is left.

the silver cleaner product works pretty nice also.

 

[vlamgat]

Let's move this discussion to another thread - nothing to do with running out of diesel.

 

[Bill Davis]

Gotcha - Gelling issues are quite another issue and I understand your point now. Other than that, the stuff is worthless in most climates but without tank heaters it's a worthwhile precaution especially where the tanks are exposed to chill factors and are subject to Bio Diesel fills.

Chill factors only affect humans and animals. Vehicles can’t feel.

 

[vlamgat]

Chill factors only affect humans and animals. Vehicles can’t feel.

Not so - forced air over a chilled surface will cool that surface slightly faster; and the faster it cools, the more the latent heat within the contents/attached to the surface will flow out. It's not profound but is measurable. We see it in aircraft fuel tanks at altitude where the gelling when it occurs in the areas with the lowest air pressure (usually the front top surface having the highest airspeed) and is displayed on the fuel tank sensors. These days the fuel is heated in most commercial aircraft but its still not the case in private and older aircraft and certainly was a problem as the world transitioned from gasoline to kerosene in the 50s and 60s. Lear Jets were notorious for this in the 60s.

 

[Bill Davis]

Not so - forced air over a chilled surface will cool that surface slightly faster; and the faster it cools, the more the latent heat within the contents/attached to the surface will flow out. It's not profound but is measurable. We see it in aircraft fuel tanks at altitude where the gelling when it occurs in the areas with the lowest air pressure (usually the front top surface having the highest airspeed) and is displayed on the fuel tank sensors. These days the fuel is heated in most commercial aircraft but its still not the case in private and older aircraft and certainly was a problem as the world transitioned from gasoline to kerosene in the 50s and 60s. Lear Jets were notorious for this in the 60s.

yes it may cool faster but it can’t lower the temperature below the temperature of the air. Chill factor refers to the “the feeling” one gets when the wind blows across the human skin.

 

[Jim34RL]

The only state I’ve seen that mandates bio diesel is Illinois. I’ve always avoided buying fuel there. If there are others I haven’t encountered them. From Ohio to Wyoming and Ohio to Florida.

Will here is a current list of states that require Bio-Diesel to be sold at the pump. The Fed's have stated if BIO-content is less than 20% in volume, the pump does not need to be labeled for the BIO-content.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=44496

At the bottom of the page there is a list of the top ten states that sell Bio-fuel for use in vehicles in 2018 and or produce Bio-Fuel. With Texas leading the states in use than Calf with OHIO in 6th place.

 

[dmctlc]

To do what? Isn't that stuff Snake Oil just like STP of the 1970s? We are not dealing with an Ethanol issue here and unless the diesel is being purchased from really old stock (as in years of storage) the stuff is not going to deteriorate as long as its clean. I have never read or seen any science behind any of the diesel additives and very few of the gasoline ones either and given the huge share of wallet/operating cost, I would think there would be lots of fun tests. I do know that Diesel Kleen does nothing to prevent or alleviate the infamous "stiction" that afflicts the Ford Powerstrokes of the early 2000s.

Couldn't reply earlier was busy but not why you mentioned Ford when I was addressing only the OPS issues on his DX3 (Cummins 8.9ISL) but I'm not sure I agree about your Ford Comments either, since I've read on Diesel forums suggestions to use an additive with Cetane in it. But there are many facets that make up my input. One my son, a mechanic, for over 15 yrs. who recommends it. You ask about test well after years of testing Cummins came out and recommends it was stated by the postings of MAC D and nomad297 as well as a variety of friends that have DPs who have used it over the years vs. those that didn't at first and started to seem to feel the Diesels are running better. Is it another cost to running a DP Class A, sure but IMHO it's small in comparison to the overall cost anyway. I'm not expert by any means but I I always gather a lot of info on anything I do or anything I use. Just my 2 cents.

 

[vlamgat]

yes it may cool faster but it can’t lower the temperature below the temperature of the air. Chill factor refers to the “the feeling” one gets when the wind blows across the human skin.

It does but more specifically it removes latent heat which causes water to freeze and alcohol products to gel or thicken. The action of the air across the surface is working like a refrigerant just as it does on our skin. There is a correlation between the specific gravity of the material and the rate as well as the absolute amount of calories that will be removed per surface area of the chilled material relative to the fluid behind it. Its complicated and computers are used to model it today. Back in the day you just dropped in a bottle of "stuff" (we used Prist) and hoped for the best. The British did a lot of work on this in the early days of the Comet and came up with a unique surface de-ice system (TKS) as a result. But it was more ass than craft.

 

[nomad297]

yes it may cool faster but it can’t lower the temperature below the temperature of the air. Chill factor refers to the “the feeling” one gets when the wind blows across the human skin.

This is absolutely true and indisputable.

Bruce

 

[5picker]

This is absolutely true and indisputable.

Bruce

Correct.

It's been proven time and time again in the Antarctic there is no 'chill factor' on non living items.

A temperature probe measuring an ambient temperature of -50°F will measure the exact same temperature with a 75 MPH wind blowing across it.

Will things cool quicker with wind blowing across them?.... yes. Will they ever get colder than ambient temperature with wind blowing across them... no.

Only if the object becomes venturi shaped will the AIR become colder.

 

[vlamgat]

Correct.

It's been proven time and time again in the Antarctic there is no 'chill factor' on non living items.

A temperature probe measuring an ambient temperature of -50°F will measure the exact same temperature with a 75 MPH wind blowing across it.

Will things cool quicker with wind blowing across them?.... yes. Will they ever get colder than ambient temperature with wind blowing across them... no.

Only if the object becomes venturi shaped will the AIR become colder.

You are correct about the Arctic and in fact about any chill factor measurement in the sub zero and particularly below -20C. But in the zone from 0 to -20 there is an ability to cool a warmer material in contact with the surface for various reasons including the transfer of latent heat. I agree that a radiator does not get colder because you are driving in ambient -10C at 65 mph but the air going through that radiator has the ability to extract more heat from the engine in calorie terms than it could without the airspeed. Here is some science in layman terms:
https://sciencing.com/wind-chill-affect-objects-like-metal-10056448.html

Implicitly this means that although the differences are very small, the radiator material is experiencing a chill factor as this heat is extracted. Mostly that difference cannot be measured because the heat source in contact with the radiator is so significant but it has been measured in space and in Arctic environments and by its nature is transitory as heat flows - until it does not and that is the only condition under which your assertion is correct.

 

[krampot]

Well gents, sorry for the delay and all of the help and commentary. As I had mentioned, I had cycled the ignition to get the lifter pump going about 20 or so times and didn't work. I decided to call roadside since 1st year is free. They sent a mobile tech who by the time I met him outside had the hood open, smirked, said "we'll get it going". He proceeded to pull out his "magic go juice" (yes, ether )

He had me crank first, then a quick squirt, slightly longer squirt, 3rd. Almost caught. Stopped, wait 5 seconds, another go the same way. Baby fired right up. The day prior I had attempted something similar but much more gingerly as I was aware of the dangers of it.

So I'm glad it's working and glad it was the mobile tech to do it. That being said the situation will be avoided at all costs in the future. Also have since installed a 50 amp plug in the driveway parking spot (I think that means we just added 2+ bedrooms to our house )

As for the slow response, after all that, we decided to dewinterize and head south for New Years. Time to winterize all over again.

PS. Tech did mention to ask the manufacturer about any fuel additives for winter storage (is anything recommended) De-gel or anything? Thanks all

 

[KyDan]

Thanks for the follow up.
We love a happy ending!!

(Way back in the late 80s I had a Chevy blazer with the Detroit diesel. It had glow plugs but still struggled to start when parked outside in single digit temps. I could plug in the block heater at home but not at work. I had to use either several times. I could not do it alone. I'd have to get someone to squirt the either while I cranked. I always had them do a test squirt off to the side and ALWAYS had them do a -tiny- squirt in the open air cleaner. Sometimes it took 2 tiny squirts but just like the old Brylcream ads, a little dab'll do ya!)

 

[aceinspp]

Glade to hear the end results put you back on the road. Good old tried and true as long as your careful. Later RJD

 

[Bill Davis]

Thanks for the update.

 

[vlamgat]

As previously suggested: Available everywhere, Diesel Kleen White label Winter additive. Its not "Professional" grade but it will keep you out of trouble.

BTW - where did the Tech squirt the Go-Juice - through the air intake?

"PS. Tech did mention to ask the manufacturer about any fuel additives for winter storage (is anything recommended) De-gel or anything? Thanks all
krampot is online now Report Post "